Recent experience with people that pissed me off

[ttmonster]

Guys, wanted your unbiased opinions to make sure I am thinking right.

Here's the background , I play in the afternoon for an hour with my friends in a club after work before heading back home . I go there sometimes in the weekends if somebody is willing to play and I am able to make it, physically and schedule wise. I have been playing here for the last 6 months, not a lot of people but the facilities are good.

Recently , the club changed ownership and a group of people took over. They are pooling money together to keep it afloat and ofcourse have future plans on where to to take it etc.
I have monthly membership there and thats where my involvement ends.

So I walk into the club and I see this guy playing , he has hit with me before and he has seen me play other friends of mine earlier. Their ratings ranging from 1600-2200. You will understand shortly, why I brought up the rating.

He was playing with another young guy , but he came up to me and asked are 1600, I want to play you. I said okay fine. Did not see the other guy complain, so went along with it feeling they might have played already and wanted a change.

Tried to warm up , he kept hitting the ball everywhere trying to win every warmup rally I was trying to initiate. Mind that he is a pen holder at a decent level , so it should not be too hard for him to keep it on the table consistently to help some body warm up. I tried to go along with it for around 3-4 minutes and then decided its a lost cause and asked for him to start playing games.

He had pretty good penhold serves, with good deception on spin, and was mixing side and side top , keeping it in the middle . I was having trouble and lost the first game 11-5 or 6 I don't remember. At this point his friend walks in and immediately he says I don't want to play you anymore.

At first, I was dumbstruck and this behavior and then called him out on it. Saying , that I don't want to play you ever, please don't ask me again. And I did call it out pretty loudly so that everybody in the club could hear it. I told him that is very bad behavior.

So he wants to come back and finish it and I said no. Then I waited for my other friend to finish playing games so that I can play the winner of the table next. I was complaining to him that this is simply rude and intolerable when he comes back trying to explain to me that I said I was 1600 and I was not. I told him that it did not matter , its just bad behavior.

Now , my official USATT rating is 1683 . I play around that level , depending on how good I have warmed up that day , whether I am physically fit and moving well. I do have my weaknesses and I definitely do better against a lot of players and don't against a lot others.

Anyway, no excuses for my behavior , and I could have walked away with a mental note never to play that guy again without calling him out.

What do you think is the best course of action in such a situation ? Is he justified in behaving this way ? Or what I think as a common courtesy is not very common and I am expecting too much ?

I don't want to name the club or the player or their ethnicity, because I don't want to sound racial and I honestly believe that people are just people , for better or worse .

I am fine with a player not wanting to play me for whatever reason, but to invite somebody to play and not finishing the game was too much insult and I felt I should give it back for my own self respect as a person, if not as a player

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

This is the first thing I would say: You did not do anything wrong. When someone is a lowlife, douchebag, it is okay to let the guy know he is lame and out of line. And any retard who thinks one game with someone who isn't warm when you are warm means anything is a fool.

Now the truth is, there are a few guys I know who don't know how to warm up who I let slide, because I know they just can't do it. But for the most part, if I hit with someone who is an idiot and I am hitting the ball cross court for them to hit and they are trying to rip the ball down the line instead of crosscourt, I have a method of dealing with that.

In this scenario I may have said something like: "since it is obvious that you are already warm and you don't know how to do warm up drills, why don't we do two serves each without counting for a little while so that, at least I can get warmed up while we do something productive. Because me hitting to you and you hitting away from me is a waste of time." From my perspective, this kills two birds with one stone. It gets me to see this guy's game without having to start a match ice cold. And it will get me warmed up.

But I Would never start a match ice cold against a douchebag like that. When someone is hitting like that, a good assumption is that they actually don't want you to get warmed up. Even if it is not actually the truth, it is functionally the result of them not knowing how to do warm up drills.

 

[ttmonster]

Thanks Carl ! I will take your advise next time.

I also don't mind not warming up against people who can't warm up or friends I known who are in a rush and want to go home because their wives are going to kill them if they are late . In those cases, I generally try to treat the first game as warm up game and try to get them in the next four. But then winning and losing in those scenarios don't result into anything other than some friendly banter from either side and then the losing guy serving first the next day .

But you taught me a very useful tool for dealing with lowlifes , thanks

This is the first thing I would say: You did not do anything wrong. When someone is a lowlife, douchebag, it is okay to let the guy know he is lame and out of line. And any retard who thinks one game with someone who isn't warm when you are warm means anything is a fool.

Now the truth is, there are a few guys I know who don't know how to warm up who I let slide, because I know they just can't do it. But for the most part, if I hit with someone who is an idiot and I am hitting the ball cross court for them to hit and they are trying to rip the ball down the line instead of crosscourt, I have a method of dealing with that.

In this scenario I may have said something like: "since it is obvious that you are already warm and you don't know how to do warm up drills, why don't we do two serves each without counting for a little while so that, at least I can get warmed up while we do something productive. Because me hitting to you and you hitting away from me is a waste of time." From my perspective, this kills two birds with one stone. It gets me to see this guy's game without having to start a match ice cold. And it will get me warmed up.

But I Would never start a match ice cold against a douchebag like that. When someone is hitting like that, a good assumption is that they actually don't want you to get warmed up. Even if it is not actually the truth, it is functionally the result of them not knowing how to do warm up drills.

 

[kukamonga]

united states + rating + human beings = cataclism
only in US

 

[Shuki]

This is nonsense... what level of a player is this guy? Because personally I play a game that will almost always lose the first game.

I play in a way where firstly I'm collecting data, but I'm also conditioning my opponent into thinking something works when in reality it won't. Simply having the knowledge that I'm not only able to, but GOING to turn it on gives me a huge momentum shift.


The guy was an ass and I would have called him out as well. I've done so in the past with players with a similar attitude, you did fine. I'm the kind of player who just enjoys the game and loves hitting the damn ball. The players at my club know this about me and all styles enjoy playing with me because win or lose we'll both have fun. And the players at my club know that if I get in a dispute with someone then it's most likely, just them being an ass. I'm a pushover and a "people pleaser", if I'm arguing with someone in person I'm generally in the right when it comes to common decency and then everyone at my club will look down on whoever I was arguing with.

This makes me feel bad sometimes because I honestly believe nobody ever means any harm in what they do. I bet this guy thought that you and he both knew he was a better player and he was protecting himself from an embarrassing loss that could have occured from losing to a lower level player than himself. But he didn't see the asshole'ish attitude he was giving off in the mean time, all that was on his mind was protecting himself and his image.

And I can see that in your head if you were treated poorly why the hell wouldn't you treat that person in the same way. If they aren't treated in the way they treat other's they may never see that the way they act is seen as poor.

 

[Shuki]

united states + rating + human beings = cataclism
only in US

truth.

the fear of losing to someone lower rated than you causes quite the "dickish attitude among some"

That's why I love the way carl and der_, talk about how it's much better to under rate yourself than to over rate yourself. saves everyone time and happiness as well as making yourself look better when you actually play your games.

 

[kukamonga]

truth.

the fear of losing to someone lower rated than you causes quite the "dickish attitude among some"

That's why I love the way carl and der_, talk about how it's much better to under rate yourself than to over rate yourself. saves everyone time and happiness as well as making yourself look better when you actually play your games.

it's strange.
I find losing to everyone once in a while a healthy habit.
gives the other person confidence and keeps me from getting too rigid, like I always have to win.

 

[ttmonster]

I don't think he is more than 1700-1800 , I did not play him enough to know. Most of them have have good serve and then they can manipulate the ball with the penhold if you play enough. But personally, i would have called him out even if he was 2900 and invited me to play him and then left after one game. But I like Carl's advise , I learnt something in the art of diplomacy

This is nonsense... what level of a player is this guy? Because personally I play a game that will almost always lose the first game.

I play in a way where firstly I'm collecting data, but I'm also conditioning my opponent into thinking something works when in reality it won't. Simply having the knowledge that I'm not only able to, but GOING to turn it on gives me a huge momentum shift.


The guy was an ass and I would have called him out as well. I've done so in the past with players with a similar attitude, you did fine. I'm the kind of player who just enjoys the game and loves hitting the damn ball. The players at my club know this about me and all styles enjoy playing with me because win or lose we'll both have fun. And the players at my club know that if I get in a dispute with someone then it's most likely, just them being an ass. I'm a pushover and a "people pleaser", if I'm arguing with someone in person I'm generally in the right when it comes to common decency and then everyone at my club will look down on whoever I was arguing with.

This makes me feel bad sometimes because I honestly believe nobody ever means any harm in what they do. I bet this guy thought that you and he both knew he was a better player and he was protecting himself from an embarrassing loss that could have occured from losing to a lower level player than himself. But he didn't see the asshole'ish attitude he was giving off in the mean time, all that was on his mind was protecting himself and his image.

And I can see that in your head if you were treated poorly why the hell wouldn't you treat that person in the same way. If they aren't treated in the way they treat other's they may never see that the way they act is seen as poor.

 

[thekleifheit13]

Kuka hit the nail on the head here, people in the US put way too much emphasis on rating and use it to justify not taking games with lower level players seriously. You dealt with the situation just fine, though, TTM. I would have said something even in the warmup, especially if he's at the level he's at and still refuses to let you actually warm up your strokes.

 

[ttmonster]

I am probably a little too healthy on that count kuka, most of the times, if I am not going to play a tournament soon , I just focus on making the right decisions on the table rather playing to win, for me that seems to help me improve me in the longer run. And, who cares who wins when you are playing friends , of course you play to win but that is not important, fun is much more important !

it's strange.
I find losing to everyone once in a while a healthy habit.
gives the other person confidence and keeps me from getting too rigid, like I always have to win.

 

[kukamonga]

I mean it's normal if a 2700 player comes he'll just play with a few who are similar level.
but you guys are like "oh no you are 1650, I am 1786 so I will not play you because your level is too low".
hilarious.....

 

[Ilia Minkin]

I mean it's normal if a 2700 player comes he'll just play with a few who are similar level.
but you guys are like "oh no you are 1650, I am 1786 so I will not play you because your level is too low".
hilarious.....

Honestly, I found that it varies from place to place greatly. In some places anybody can ask to play anybody, others are exactly as you described. I didn't visit many clubs in US, but I saw both kinds.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Well, kukamonga has a pretty good point. But the only person who sounds like he had a problem with the rating and level issue is the other guy.

CookieMonster, oops, I mean ttmonster (I like the guy a lot so I am guessing he won't mind me joking around) sounds like he would be fine playing with various people of various levels.

And the other guy wouldn't let monster warm up but still made a judgement on his level after only one game. If monster was 2100 and this guy was 1700 and monster clowned around in the first game and lost 11-5 this guy may have done the same thing anyway.

And I definitely know 2200+ level players who clown around with me and make the matches close. I actually like that. They may be working on stuff they are not as good at or just not trying to crush me. And I am still pressed to my limit but don't feel like an utter fool. Whereas, I notice, often when I play someone 1.5 levels higher and they are trying as hard as they can, I often mess up on weird stuff and lose because their short game is just better than mine. And when that happens I always feel frustrated and like I am a spaz. LOL.

So, yes, this guy had a problem with level and judgements about level or he wouldn't have walked up and asked ttmonster if he was 1600 in the first place. In fact he was probably ditching the guy he was playing wit because he felt the guy wasn't good enough for him to play with. But, I don't get the sense, and I never have, that ttmonster has an issue with his level or anyone else's.

And from having seen footage of him playing, I can tell that monster's technique is better than his game skills. So I doubt there is any need for him to be concerned about level.

If I got him in NYC for a few months and gave him my special anti-goon squad TT crosstraining routine to help his knees, make him stronger and up his cardio endurance the monster would go up 1.5 levels in 2 months training since the skillz are already there.

 

[ttmonster]

Okay , here is a tip Illia which I have found useful . Try to never associate a bad thing to a place, always associate bad things to particular person and if possible give him the benefit of doubt of being in a bad mood. In this case there was no reason because I could tell this guy has done this several other times.
I will tell you where most problems stem from, it goes along this line.. I love my country , my country is great , .... then suddenly it becomes my country is better than yours .... you can replace country with anything you want , religion, culture, table tennis whatever . As long as we take everything with a pinch of salt and self criticism the world remains a better place .

Honestly, I found that it varies from place to place greatly. In some places anybody can ask to play anybody, others are exactly as you described. I didn't visit many clubs in US, but I saw both kinds.

 

[ttmonster]

Thanks Carl , the NYC offer is too good and I hope I get a chance to make good on it . However, the counter offer will always remain , if you ever want to come down and beat up on the bay area kids and make some quick money teaching yoga to the likes of Tim Cook , I would be happy to host

Well, kukamonga has a pretty good point. But the only person who sounds like he had a problem with the rating and level issue is the other guy.

CookieMonster, oops, I mean ttmonster (I like the guy a lot so I am guessing he won't mind me joking around) sounds like he would be fine playing with various people of various levels.

And the other guy wouldn't let monster warm up but still made a judgement on his level after only one game. If monster was 2100 and this guy was 1700 and monster clowned around in the first game and lost 11-5 this guy may have done the same thing anyway.

And I definitely know 2200+ level players who clown around with me and make the matches close. I actually like that. They may be working on stuff they are not as good at or just not trying to crush me. And I am still pressed to my limit but don't feel like an utter fool. Whereas, I notice, often when I play someone 1.5 levels higher and they are trying as hard as they can, I often mess up on weird stuff and lose because their short game is just better than mine. And when that happens I always feel frustrated and like I am a spaz. LOL.

So, yes, this guy had a problem with level and judgements about level or he wouldn't have walked up and asked ttmonster if he was 1600. But, I don't get the sense, and I never have, that ttmonster has an issue with his level.

And from having seen footage of him playing, I can tell that his technique is better than his game skills. So I doubt there is any need to be concerned about level for him.

If I got him in NYC for a few months and gave him my special TT crosstraining routine to help his knees, make him stronger and up his cardio endurance the monster would go up 1.5 levels in 2 months training since the skillz are already there.

 

[kukamonga]

you should start playing with all this drama...
go to clubs and start saying "I am 2600, I just have been playing in china so you won't see me in the rankings".
then lose and say stuff like "you threw sand in my face" lol

 

[ttmonster]

I can't stop laughing ....

you should start playing with all this drama...
go to clubs and start saying "I am 2600, I just have been playing in china so you won't see me in the rankings".
then lose and say stuff like "you threw sand in my face" lol

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[JHB]

Tried to warm up , he kept hitting the ball everywhere trying to win every warmup rally I was trying to initiate.

This is considered normal behaviour among the older players in my club

Seriously though, you seem to have handled this correctly. Your only minor oversight was that you appear to have neglected to call him an a***hole to his face. Discretion is the better part, as they say !

 

[Der_Echte]

I woulda got right up in hiz grill and said what I had to say loud and clear, emphasizing what he did and why it was unacceptable and ask him what he wanna do about it huh? The I woulda turned my back on him and walk away befroe he can figure out what to do.

 

[Baal]

This is considered normal behaviour among the older players in my club

Somebody at my club does that even once, I will never play with them again. One guy in particular comes to mind. I hate that. Almost nothing bothers me as much as that. I need to get warm before I play. And if I sit down for awhile, I get cold pretty quickly. Somebody starts blasting winners immediately during the warm up, I may just give them back the ball (unless it's mine) and just walk off the court without saying anything. No need to get in someone's face, they simply become dead to me.

Seriously, my opponent can drop F-bombs or cho or play fast or play slow or hide serves or get a boatload of nets and edges, all is forgiven. Especially the F bombs, these are time-honored Anglo-Saxon words. Nobody gets hurt by them, and children should learn at an early age to swear properly. I can help with that.

Don't let me warm up just before we start so I risk injury? Screw that and the horse you rode in on. (And that goes triple if you use any sort of pips and have some sort of unorthodox thing going on, I need to hit the ball one or two minutes against the rubber to see what it does).