Rozena vs Mantra

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Hi,

This is my first post.

Has anyone tried the Mantra M or H and Rozena? If so, can you share with me a quick comparison for control, spin, speed, weight and durability? Also, and complimentary blade for an older person who can't work so hard on shots anymore would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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Has anyone tried the Mantra M or H and Rozena?

Mantra M is medium+ hard and a little demanding, but extremely precise. Good technique and positioning and you´ll have a winner.

Rozena appeared bouncy and unpredictable, a soft rubber you´d find cheaper from other manufacturers.

If you can´t "work so hard on shots anymore" you might not want to settle for Mantra, but you could surely take a look at other soft rubbers than Rozena. Consider andro Rasanter V42 for example, this new technology works a treat.

As for the blade, it would be helpful to know what you have know so users can recommend something that plays a little easier for example.
 
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I've played with both, and like them both. They are different beasts altogether. Mantra M is a fast rubber, that gives you a direct feel and a direct trajectory. Not ultimately spinny and not designed to be so. I had a lot of fun with my active blocks with it.

Rozena to me felt like a silghtly tamer Tenergy 05. It has that recognizable bounce to it. It's less spinny (but still very spinny), less fast (but still quite fast) and brings perhaps a bit less to the table for a loop-everything playing style. I liked it a lot, although in the balance of things I've since chosen differently. Still, I am considering Rozena 2.1 for my FH (or T05 once more, once I think I'll be able to master that monster); my Nanoflex FT 48 is better in a lot of things, for me, and so is Vega Pro; but there is something addictive to the bouncy feel Rozena and the Tenergies have.
 
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to the bouncy feel Rozena and the Tenergies have.

We may have different definitions of bouncy. For me bounce equals catapult, something of which I don´t want to have too much and in which category t05 surely isn´t among those who have a lot.

Consequently, if I call a rubber bouncy I think it lacks touch and just throws balls around. That seemed to be the case with Rozena, less so than with other soft rubbers, but still too much for my liking.

As for Mantra and spin, you have to really work it. I found it difficult to produce varying degrees and so, probably like you, settled for fast and direct shots the day I tried it.

If you´re playing with Nanoflex, have you considered staying with GEWO and trying HYPE?
 
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We're getting slightly off-topic there, but yes, I've looked at the recent Gewo Hype rubbers. I played contently with Vega Pro at the time, and had the opportunity of trying out a few things just when my sheets were starting to feel a bit worn.

Somehow I always end up with rubbers around 47º hardness, so I messed about a bit with Hype EL Pro 47.5 and Hype KR Pro 47.5. I touched the Hype XT Pro 50.0 as well. Long story short, it was the Nanoflex FT 48 that I fell for. Like a ton o'bricks.

The Hype EL Pro isn't for me, didn't feel right. And while KR and XTs did make me tingle a bit, I just couldn't handle them (like Rakza 7, Tenergy 64, Evolution MX-P). Especially the XT. I might revisit the KR, though, but the Nanoflex I'm playing with really leaves nothing to desire. Yet there is this vague reminder of the feeling of Tenergy deeply grabbing the ball. That it revives that memory is what I like most about Rozena, getting back on topic; a less nervous Tenergy.

But I got over that; when adapting technique, going for a stroke that is more relaxed yet also fuller, I get sensational spin on the ball. Keeps me focused, and I've come to love that. I've come to be somewhat agnostic, though; I know I'll have fun and feel unimpaired when playing with Vega Pro, Evolution EL-S, Genesis M, Mantra M, Rasanter V47, and adapting to any of these happens relatively painlessly and quickly. Never tried the Cornilleau stuff, never tried the Victas V>15, Karis M, or the Bluestorms; but I trust the same will hold (and in the end I'm stupidly happy anyway, once at the table swatting at the ball with anything available).
 
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Mantra M is medium+ hard and a little demanding, but extremely precise. Good technique and positioning and you´ll have a winner.

Rozena appeared bouncy and unpredictable, a soft rubber you´d find cheaper from other manufacturers.

If you can´t "work so hard on shots anymore" you might not want to settle for Mantra, but you could surely take a look at other soft rubbers than Rozena. Consider andro Rasanter V42 for example, this new technology works a treat.

As for the blade, it would be helpful to know what you have know so users can recommend something that plays a little easier for example.

Hi Airoc. Thanks much for replying to my post and the very helpful information. I'm not able to work that hard anymore so I'll check out the Rasanter. What I am looking for is a setup that allows me to use a nice, relaxed, stroke that will still let me impart some speed and spin. Right now I am using an old setup with Calibra LT and a Killerspin Diamond CQ 2x carbon, 5x wood blade that I would rate an Off- with very good touch. Combined though, zero spin. The Diamond CQ, which I like, is no longer available as a blade.

Thanks again!
 
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I've played with both, and like them both. They are different beasts altogether. Mantra M is a fast rubber, that gives you a direct feel and a direct trajectory. Not ultimately spinny and not designed to be so. I had a lot of fun with my active blocks with it.

Rozena to me felt like a silghtly tamer Tenergy 05. It has that recognizable bounce to it. It's less spinny (but still very spinny), less fast (but still quite fast) and brings perhaps a bit less to the table for a loop-everything playing style. I liked it a lot, although in the balance of things I've since chosen differently. Still, I am considering Rozena 2.1 for my FH (or T05 once more, once I think I'll be able to master that monster); my Nanoflex FT 48 is better in a lot of things, for me, and so is Vega Pro; but there is something addictive to the bouncy feel Rozena and the Tenergies have.

Thanks much! The Mantra could be a better Calibra LT. Seems like similar characteristics but if spin takes lots of work, it probably is not right for me. Rozena might be a bit too tame coming off a Calibra LT but maybe a better all-around game. Maybe a T05 FX? But I don't want to waste money.

My past experiences with ESN is that they lack durability and therefore characteristics change quickly. Maybe the latest generation is better? Thanks again!
 
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a Killerspin Diamond CQ 2x carbon, 5x wood blade that I would rate an Off- with very good touch.

Me too.

The Diamond CQ, which I like, is no longer available as a blade.

But if you already have it you´re all set, no need to look for another?

ESN have worked on the durability, you shouldn´t worry too much about that. But coming from Calibra, have you considered Calibra Sound? Personally, I also liked the Airoc rubbers, but quality was an issue. Airoc Astro were overlooked over here, but of better quality. If you go for Mantra, you could try the soft version. If the M version is anything to go by (harder than expected) the S shouldn´t be a super-soft rubber. Another really good soft/medium minus rubber is GEWO Hype XT 40 Pro. Very powerful for 40 degree sponge, really serious but still easy to play.
 
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I once played with someone who had a Stiga offensive classic with rozena rubbers. I immediately asked to try it out and so we briefly traded paddles. I let him use my Yasaka Sweden Extra with Rakza 7 rubbers. The first thing I noticed was how bouncy the rozena was. Very different feel compared to my regular setup. The second thing I noticed was how difficult it was to return my playing partner's shots. He was able to put more spin on the ball with my paddle that I kept making errors! After that experience my interest and enthusiasm for rozena has been tempered, somewhat.
 
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The first thing I noticed was how bouncy the rozena was. Very different feel compared to my regular setup. The second thing I noticed was how difficult it was to return my playing partner's shots. He was able to put more spin on the ball with my paddle that I kept making errors! After that experience my interest and enthusiasm for rozena has been tempered, somewhat.

I only played with Rozena shortly, because it didn´t make sense.

Asked by someone why I dislike it my answer was that among all the rubbers I tested lately it was the one that least did what I wanted, yet seemed to do something else constantly.

None of the precision of a Mantra, nor anywhere as reliable as Rasanter, not as easy to play as HYPE KR - whatever stands out for certain rubbers, Rozena has none of it.

Since many people actually like Rozena I may need to double-check if a bad glue job (unsual for the owner) or a bad rubber (on both sides of the racket, not very likely ...) were the reason. But I guess it´s just a sub-standard rubber made great for some by the charisma of the BTY logo.
 
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Hi everyone, Thanks very much for the very helpful replies.

I just went through a huge thread on TT-News concerning Rozena that was roughly automatically translated into English. While there was lots of initial enthusiasm for the rubber, it did seem to bottom out back in June with no one seemingly switching from their Tenergy or ESN rubbers. As Airoc suggests, what comes across is a good all-around rubber with no exciting characteristics. Seems like a tamed T80.

Reading reviews of Rasanter and Bluefire, they seem to get lots of love though possibility not as durable as the Japanese rubbers. Control is also an issue when compared to Rozena but it appears they have the extra gears to win (and lose) points that Rozena is missing. Mantra gets no love. Send like all of Stiga rubbers have problems generating spin.

As for the blade, unfortunately the last time I took something rubber off the Diamond, the wood splintered, so I don't want to take a chance. I'll just leave it as is. I've had it for 10 years so I got plenty out of it. So I would still need a blade to either tame the ESN or give a little extra oomph to the Rozena.

Right now I'm leaning toward either the Bluefire or Rosanter since I'm thinking I'm going to have to work my arm off trying to win with Rozena - or maybe not, since a good control game works also.
 
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I stand corrected, Genesis received high marks for spin because of its tacky surface but then loses out on speed for the same reason.
 
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Although forums like this (TDaily, MyTT, TT-news, OOAK, etc) are very useful and informative, you always have to take many impressions/reviews shared by others with a grain of salt. Impressions of equipment is very subjective and depends completely on what the specific person is comparing to. The topics of Rozena is a classic example (especially on tt-news). T05 users will say Rozena lacks spin, T64 users will say Rozena lacks speed and T25 Rozena users will say that throw of Rozena is too high. Less experienced players will say Rozena is very fast and more experienced/offensive players will say Rozena lacks speed. Then you have a lot of people who developed some kind of hatred against Butterfly (because of their pricing- and/or distribution policy) and will say Rozena is crap regardless and you are better of with ESN rubbers. And here you go: 6 completely different opinions about Rozena , all based on individuals own experience/reference.

I'm not saying all reviews are crap, as there are some very decent (and objective) reviewers on the forums, like YogiBear, NextLevel and AndySmith for example. (and surely there are others but I can't mention everyone)

I always encourage people to try new equipment themselves. Ask around at your club and see if you can try their blades/rubbers etc.

Having said that, let me share my personal opinion on the rubbers mentioned in this thread. (playing TT for over 25 years, two-wing looper at a decent level, controller offensive based on spin and placement of the ball, rather then speed)
Played Mantra M for 6 months and it feels harder compared to other medium rubbers. It's also pretty fast , but still gives you the necessary control. And it definitely generates enough of spin. For me, the Mantra M plays better on an allwood blade, as Mantra M on a carbon blade felt a bit too hard.

Genesis gives you a lot of spin, but less speed. Not saying it's slow, but due to lack of catapult, the rubbers doesn't feel fast for me.
Stiga had a big miss with the Airoc rubbers, but with Genesis and Mantra, they have some very good rubbers.

Rozena is an allround offensive rubber, on par with ESN rubbers. The spring sponge feels different to ESN rubbers, which might be the reason ESN-users experience "uncontrolled bounciness" with Rozena. Not sure who said it, but I think it was mentioned on this forum: Rozena is a jack of all trades, but a master of none. This actually describes the Rozena in a single line.

Again, this complete post is based on my personal thoughts/opinion.
 
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Although forums like this (TDaily, MyTT, TT-news, OOAK, etc) are very useful and informative, you always have to take many impressions/reviews shared by others with a grain of salt.

Very true.

Then you have a lot of people who developed some kind of hatred against Butterfly (because of their pricing- and/or distribution policy) and will say Rozena is crap regardless and you are better of with ESN rubbers.

This is also true for many, but I´d like to point out that I (for one?) still regard tenergy 05 very highly and would not say you get the same cheaper or in fact at all from any ESN rubber (that you can buy ...)

But with Rozena this is exactly my impression. As opposed to t05, it doesn´t do anything better than the ESN competition, so why pay more.

For me, the Mantra M plays better on an allwood blade, as Mantra M on a carbon blade felt a bit too hard.

My impression, too. I played it on "soft carbon" (Innerforce style) and thought for an M this felt hard, and how hard would the H version be ...

Stiga had a big miss with the Airoc rubbers, but with Genesis and Mantra, they have some very good rubbers.

Again, I agree. I think with Airoc rubbers it was a case of quality control, since I had an early rubber that was really, really good. But Stiga contract players were complaining, at one point someone saying "the red are now ok, but you can totally forget the black" (or the other way round, not sure anymore - you just couldn´t play it on both sides so players stuck to Calibra LT). Airoc Astro is better, but the name is burned, I guess ;)

Good for Stiga they withdrew early Mantras quickly for quality issues, and I wish them well as the Mantra and Genesis are excellent rubbers.
 

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This is a great post about the value of reviews. I would just add that the type of players who try a new rubber when it is first released are not likely to stick with it, or with anything. They will move on to try the next new rubber.

The only rubbers big percentages of players seem to stick with for years are tenergies and hurricanes/skylines. Read into that whatever you want.
 
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This is a great post about the value of reviews. I would just add that the type of players who try a new rubber when it is first released are not likely to stick with it, or with anything. They will move on to try the next new rubber.

The only rubbers big percentages of players seem to stick with for years are tenergies and hurricanes/skylines. Read into that whatever you want.

You can only stick for years with something that has been available for years. That is the correct way to read your statement. Of course, having the best players in the world use your brands doesn't hurt either.

People who try a new rubber when it first comes out are reviewers. It is unlikely they will stick with it forever, but even playing with the rubber for 3 months is a sign that the rubber is decent. I know many people who stand by and swear by ESN rubbers like Baracuda, Rakza 7, Vega Pro, Sigma 2 etc. Of course, because these are not all branded Tenergies, it is easy to not see that these rubbers are all technologically similar and that their persistence over the years is a sign of durability.
 
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