Rubber advice needed

[Vrael]

Hi,

This post will be quite long, because I would like to give You as much info as possible. For people that still want to help, but not read everything then please skip it and go straight to the set ups I have tried (written in bolded characters, so it is easier to find)

After many years of EJ'ing I can finally see the finish line when it comes to blade. I didn't really EJ so much with rubbers.

Of course rubbers must match the blade, so here are few combinations I have tried and my thoughts on them.
I hope someone that experimented more with rubbers can help.

My estimated level: ~1900-2000 USATT. Probably better to check some match videos if someone would like to give better advice. I have cut out everything between points, so it is quite short

Example:

For bh:
I just want to put the ball on the table, nice controllable rubber with decent throw and grip. My weapon on bh is block, chop block and all the "weird" shots and weakness that I am working on is the easiest/simplest bh drive.

Tenergy and Dignics are basically out of the question, too hard for my liking.

For fh:
I am quite confident with my fh, of course it is not perfect, but if I can get my hand on the ball then more likely than not it will end up on the opponent's side (

). I have quite good arm speed and reaction time, but not so great movement and physical strength, so quite often I need to hit ball later than I would like.

Now for the set ups I have used recently and my problems with them:

1. Old black tag viscaria. Frequency is below 1300. I don't play outer carbon blades, but this is an exception

Fh:
1. Dignics 09c
Nice short game, but didn't really like it in open game. It is too hard for me too use the full potential.

2. Dignics 05
I couldn't make single short receive with it during whole 5 set match (the one I linked above). No problems with openers, counters etc, but short game is too difficult.

3. Glayzer 09
Simillar to dignics, didn't really get the quality in my fh loops/drives. No satisfying sound, but I didn't try new sheet, only used one (around 1-2 month).

BH:
1. Tenergy 05 fx. Usually I don't have problems with chop blocks and blocks, but on outer carbon blade I felt like I don't have enough time on the ball and the blocks were going out. Maybe if the rubber had lower catapult it would be better, but I need to have soft-mid rubber on bh

2. Tenergy 80
Too hard and bouncy

2. W968 fh/N506 (all wood) bh

FH:
1. Dignics 64
Little too long trajectory

2. Dignics 05
It is okay, but still the short game is quite difficult and I am not able to really use the full potential of the rubber due to hardness even when I am in position and when I am out of position it leads to some errors.

3. Yasaka hovering dragon, actually quite interesting, but didn't play long enough to decide yet. Problem is that it is hard to get in Japan.

BH:

1. Glayzer
Was a littel too hard for my liking

2. Joola Dynaryz CMD (42,5 hardness)
Current winner, maybe I would like something with better top sheet, because even on the new one the ball is slipping sometimes, but due to it's softness I still make less errors than with rubbers that have better top sheet, but are hard (glayzer, glayzer09c, dignics64)

Other rubebrs I tried on different blades and liked are tibhar K3 fx and mk fx, but they lasted for max 2-3 weeks for me. I have no problem with changing rubbers every 2-3 months, but under 1 months is definitely too often. On the first 2 days they are my favourite rubbers. Some more durable alternatives are welcome.

If You read it all then I am really grateful

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Hi,

This post will be quite long, because I would like to give You as much info as possible. For people that still want to help, but not read everything then please skip it and go straight to the set ups I have tried (written in bolded characters, so it is easier to find)

After many years of EJ'ing I can finally see the finish line when it comes to blade. I didn't really EJ so much with rubbers.

Of course rubbers must match the blade, so here are few combinations I have tried and my thoughts on them.
I hope someone that experimented more with rubbers can help.

My estimated level: ~1900-2000 USATT. Probably better to check some match videos if someone would like to give better advice. I have cut out everything between points, so it is quite short

Example:

For bh:
I just want to put the ball on the table, nice controllable rubber with decent throw and grip. My weapon on bh is block, chop block and all the "weird" shots and weakness that I am working on is the easiest/simplest bh drive.

Tenergy and Dignics are basically out of the question, too hard for my liking.

For fh:
I am quite confident with my fh, of course it is not perfect, but if I can get my hand on the ball then more likely than not it will end up on the opponent's side (

). I have quite good arm speed and reaction time, but not so great movement and physical strength, so quite often I need to hit ball later than I would like.

Now for the set ups I have used recently and my problems with them:

1. Old black tag viscaria. Frequency is below 1300. I don't play outer carbon blades, but this is an exception

Fh:
1. Dignics 09c
Nice short game, but didn't really like it in open game. It is too hard for me too use the full potential.

2. Dignics 05
I couldn't make single short receive with it during whole 5 set match (the one I linked above). No problems with openers, counters etc, but short game is too difficult.

3. Glayzer 09
Simillar to dignics, didn't really get the quality in my fh loops/drives. No satisfying sound, but I didn't try new sheet, only used one (around 1-2 month).

BH:
1. Tenergy 05 fx. Usually I don't have problems with chop blocks and blocks, but on outer carbon blade I felt like I don't have enough time on the ball and the blocks were going out. Maybe if the rubber had lower catapult it would be better, but I need to have soft-mid rubber on bh

2. Tenergy 80
Too hard and bouncy

2. W968 fh/N506 (all wood) bh

FH:
1. Dignics 64
Little too long trajectory

2. Dignics 05
It is okay, but still the short game is quite difficult and I am not able to really use the full potential of the rubber due to hardness even when I am in position and when I am out of position it leads to some errors.

3. Yasaka hovering dragon, actually quite interesting, but didn't play long enough to decide yet. Problem is that it is hard to get in Japan.

BH:

1. Glayzer
Was a littel too hard for my liking

2. Joola Dynaryz CMD (42,5 hardness)
Current winner, maybe I would like something with better top sheet, because even on the new one the ball is slipping sometimes, but due to it's softness I still make less errors than with rubbers that have better top sheet, but are hard (glayzer, glayzer09c, dignics64)

Other rubebrs I tried on different blades and liked are tibhar K3 fx and mk fx, but they lasted for max 2-3 weeks for me. I have no problem with changing rubbers every 2-3 months, but under 1 months is definitely too often. On the first 2 days they are my favourite rubbers. Some more durable alternatives are welcome.

If You read it all then I am really grateful

😂

 

[PenHoldSandro]

😂

nah youre wild for that. Imagine you see a notification and thinking it's about another player's opinion and then you see this HAHAHAHAH

my opinion: a simple Hurricane for forehand, and Mark V for Backhand thats it.

But better to keep what you have right now and grow into it.

 

[Yurifi]

I would suggest an inner carbon blade (Harimoto ALC, ML5, TMXi) - they are powerful blades, yes, but not extremely fast, with a lot, and I mean a lot of feel and control.

FH, I would go with Hurricane 8-80 - don't be affraid, it is the best of both worlds, honestly. if it is still too much for you, Dignics09c.

BH - Rakza Z. Xiom Vega Pro H. Xiom Vega X. I played a lot with Xiom 7 China Guang and it is a very nice rubber for BH, but as for H8-80, could be a bit much.

 

[mocker88]

My son played with Dignics 05 on BH for a year or two. At last he found it too bouncy and hard to control in the passive/short game. He tried Joola - Dynaryz Inferno and this one gave him more control and at least the same amount of spin and speed when needed. A couple of years later until present day he's using the Yinhe - Big Dipper 39deg on a Yinhe - T2s blade and is really satisfied with this. More control than the Inferno as well, and more spin with a really good wrist though. You could absolutely check out Yinhe - Moon 12 Blue as well as I feel that they are more controllable than Big Dipper, and is a bit more easy to do chop blocks and other nice stuff with. In this game you don't seem to trust your backhand much, and it might be too bouncy for you.

What I see from your FH, it works quite nice for you here, but for more control and a more linear feeling check out 729 - Presto Max Spin/Speed, LOKI - Telson 100 or Yinhe - Big Dipper.

These would work really nice on a Viscaria too...

 

[The0rigina1]

H8-20 on BH maybe

 

[lodro]

My son played with Dignics 05 on BH for a year or two. At last he found it too bouncy and hard to control in the passive/short game.

So true.
There is a widespread believe that one should have a soft BH rubber but I experienced exactly the same as your son did (but not with Dignics) and do pretty well now with using hard sticky chinese rubbers. These give better control and good spin once one has adapted to them

 

[mocker88]

So true.
There is a widespread believe that one should have a soft BH rubber but I experienced exactly the same as your son did (but not with Dignics) and do pretty well now with using hard sticky chinese rubbers. These give better control and good spin once one has adapted to them

Yeah. I'm using harder, tacky rubbers for backhand now as well. It was just a test I did this spring, and it feels pretty nice

 

[lodro]

Yeah. I'm using harder, tacky rubbers for backhand now as well. It was just a test I did this spring, and it feels pretty nice

good on ye.
It's all about the brushing 😁

 

[Vrael]

nah youre wild for that. Imagine you see a notification and thinking it's about another player's opinion and then you see this HAHAHAHAH

it is fine, we play in the same club

my opinion: a simple Hurricane for forehand, and Mark V for Backhand thats it.

One of my friends is big fun of chinese rubbers, I played with comemrcial, provincial, national, player version of different hurricanes on different blades and different amount of boosting, but it is not for me. I need the rubber to make the work for me on fh, but still be a little less bouncy than dignics 05 in short game. Last tournamnet I even switched sides and played with dynaryzz acc on fh, cause it was quite wet and dignics 64 was too hard for me and ball was dropping. Of course 42,5 esn rubber was too soft and I couldn't finish with some shots that would end the rally with harder rubber, but in this situations I just had to hit 2-3 more times and still got the point where with the harder rubber I would be unable to engage the sponge and the ball would just drop

FH, I would go with Hurricane 8-80 - don't be affraid, it is the best of both worlds, honestly. if it is still too much for you, Dignics09c.

I wrote that dig09c was not good. I also tried dhs 8-80 but didn't really like it. If I don't find different solution I will probably just put k3 fx on fh.

I would suggest an inner carbon blade (Harimoto ALC, ML5, TMXi) - they are powerful blades, yes, but not extremely fast, with a lot, and I mean a lot of feel and control.

When it comes to blade I basically made my mind. Tried easly over 100 in last 2-3 years. Didn't liek xiom blades at all, TMXi, Hugo Hall, ALX i etc, they just feel different/weid for me. A little hard. Harimoto was tad to fast and most importantly it cut my fingers after 2 sets. I ahte the shape of wings on Harimoto. From inner carbon blades I liked if zlf, zlc, custom blades from sdc and from ping-pong.tw, w968 (but it is too heavy). I also loved feeling of moby 7, all kiso hinoki 7 ply blade, but the head is too big and grip too long and thin. Also played with keyshot alpha which had great feeling, but was too flat for me. Anyway here I wanted to discuss only rubbers, cause I played with many blades already, but didn't try many rubbers.

BH - Rakza Z. Xiom Vega Pro H. Xiom Vega X. I played a lot with Xiom 7 China Guang and it is a very nice rubber for BH, but as for H8-80, could be a bit much.

Those rubbers are out of question, like I said I prefer something medium-soft (esn 42-47). Tried h8-80 and didn't like it at all. I tried some harder rubbers (at least for me) like dig09c, glayzer 09c, hovering dragon, zhantian yuan jian etc and just don't like them as much as softer rubbers with that nice popping sound

What I see from your FH, it works quite nice for you here, but for more control and a more linear feeling check out 729 - Presto Max Spin/Speed, LOKI - Telson 100 or Yinhe - Big Dipper.

Actually I was considering big dipper for a short time last year, but didn't buy it after all. Might check it out, thanks. I am a little afraid going into chinese rubbers rabbit hole though and would prefer not to boost. (not moral reasons, just have no place to do it)

 

[Louisgenius]

Just use rakza 7 or rozzena. It suits u as u like soft rubbers for blocking snd control.

 

[Louisgenius]

Just use rakza 7 or rozzena. It suits u as u like soft rubbers for blocking snd control.

Actually, I recommend hurricane 9 over all those.

 

[Vrael]

Just use rakza 7 or rozzena. It suits u as u like soft rubbers for blocking snd control.

both are 45 degree+, so in that case I would like to have soft top sheet. Prefer tenergy 05 fx over rozena. Played with rakza 7 soft on bh some time ago. Wasn't bad, but defintielly prefer joola dynaryz or even mk fx

 

[JJ Ng]

Sorry to ask. Have you tried Franziska Innerforce ZLC Blade? I know you have tried 100+ blades but I gotta ask. I tried various inner carbon blades including Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC Blade (I know Ovtcharov is pretty popular but I find it a bit too fast and too hard compared to Franziska), DHS Bo carbon (first version), Nittaku Septear Feel Inner, Tibhar Fortino performance, ect. Out of them, I like Franziska the most, followed by Fortino Performance.

As for rubber, BH is easier for me to recommend. I think you will like Tibhar Revolution EL-P. It is like a slower version of T05 fx. It lasts for quite a while too. If you like EL-P, and want to go softer, just go with FX-P. If you want to go harder, then go with MX-P. Alternatively, I think Donic BlueFire M2 can also work. It is slightly slower than EL-P.

As for FH, I am not quite what to recommend. I don't use it personally but D09c is the closest thing to a well boosted blue sponge hurricane. However, D09c is still bouncier in the short game compared to Hurricane so that's why I don't use it. I really dislike all the offerings from ESN for "hybrid" because they are all non-tacky compared to Chinese rubber. You want something linear. you want a good short game. you have to go with Chinese rubber. But you don't like to boost. So maybe Mark V or Sriver? They last forever and they don't have the catapult effect.

 

[Vrael]

Sorry to ask. Have you tried Franziska Innerforce ZLC Blade? I know you have tried 100+ blades but I gotta ask. I tried various inner carbon blades including Ovtcharov Innerforce ALC Blade (I know Ovtcharov is pretty popular but I find it a bit too fast and too hard compared to Franziska), DHS Bo carbon (first version), Nittaku Septear Feel Inner, Tibhar Fortino performance, ect. Out of them, I like Franziska the most, followed by Fortino Performance.

Actually that is the one I didn't try . I played with Apolonia ZLC and prefered old innerforce ZLC. It might be interesting to try, but I am already quite happy with the w968/n506 (handle a little thin) combi blade and the w968 (only problem is that it is too heavy). I will definitelly try to hit with Franziska if I see it, but it is not very popualr here. I think I never saw one.

As for rubber, BH is easier for me to recommend. I think you will like Tibhar Revolution EL-P.

Actually I played with fx-p and el-p some time ago, but most tibhar rubbers for me lose a lot very fast and if I have to lose performance fast then I would go with the new generation, so mk fx. It is best bh rubber for me for first 3-4 days, playable for 2-3 weeks (and I don't play much) and after that I feel like it loses a lot.

M2 might be also good idea, I was wondering if there is something from the newer generation rubbers. When it comes to rubbers pre 2020 I played with rasanter r38 or v38/42, don't remember now what it was, fx-p, el-p, rakza 7 soft, victas limber, mx-p, rozena and probably some more I forgot already.

You want something linear. you want a good short game.

Maybe I wrote it too strong, dignics 05 on viscaria was too bouncy for short game, but dignics 09c was good enough, I can handle some more bounciness, but not as much as dig 05, at least not outer carbon blade. As an example K3 fx was controllable enough and lively enough in open game for me. The only problem I had with it is the same as other tibhar rubbers

 

[JJ Ng]

Actually that is the one I didn't try . I played with Apolonia ZLC and prefered old innerforce ZLC. It might be interesting to try, but I am already quite happy with the w968/n506 (handle a little thin) combi blade and the w968 (only problem is that it is too heavy). I will definitelly try to hit with Franziska if I see it, but it is not very popualr here. I think I never saw one.

Actually I played with fx-p and el-p some time ago, but most tibhar rubbers for me lose a lot very fast and if I have to lose performance fast then I would go with the new generation, so mk fx. It is best bh rubber for me for first 3-4 days, playable for 2-3 weeks (and I don't play much) and after that I feel like it loses a lot.

M2 might be also good idea, I was wondering if there is something from the newer generation rubbers. When it comes to rubbers pre 2020 I played with rasanter r38 or v38/42, don't remember now what it was, fx-p, el-p, rakza 7 soft, victas limber, mx-p, rozena and probably some more I forgot already.


Maybe I wrote it too strong, dignics 05 on viscaria was too bouncy for short game, but dignics 09c was good enough, I can handle some more bounciness, but not as much as dig 05, at least not outer carbon blade. As an example K3 fx was controllable enough and lively enough in open game for me. The only problem I had with it is the same as other tibhar rubbers

Franziska innerforce zlc is an interesting blade. At lower speed, it acts like all wood blade. At higher speed, it acts like a carbon blade. It took me about a month to get used to that. I kept on pushing the ball into the net in the beginning (because it is slower than outer carbon at slow racket speed). After I chose it, I found out that Michael Maze is currently using Franziska Innerforce zlc. It is in the video of Butterfly Legend v.s. TTD. It was the only marketing push by Butterfly in the whole video which surprised me. I would think that Primorac, Schlager, etc. are still using Butterfly products but I digressed.

With inner force blades, my blocking and control have gotten more stable especially against players my level and above me.

I have not played with newer generation ESN because if I am going to pay $60+ for a sheet, I might as well go with Butterfly rubbers.

Donic BlueFire M2 does come in blue color! However if you wear out EL-P and FX-P that fast, you might wear out a lot of ESN rubbers fairly quickly too.

I have been experimenting on my BH only. My FH has been stuck with hurricane for a long time. I got a sheet of K3 fx but only used it for three days. Once I opened the package, I already know I did not like it. It barely has any tackiness. For me, I like MX-S on my BH because it is hard and it is linear. When I practice more, then I would use D09c on my BH (without practicing regularly, it is hard for me to control D09c). I only went to hard rubbers when I switched to inner carbon blades. When I was using outer carbon blades, I like my BH rubber soft and bouncy (hence my recommendation of EL-P, FX-P and M2).

I think D09c is a special rubber that is not matched by any hybrid offering from ESN. The tackiness is on par with hurricane but yet it has this catapult effect that you only get from very well boosted hurricane. I can see why people who don't like boosting will choose D09c.

 

[mocker88]

it is fine, we play in the same club


One of my friends is big fun of chinese rubbers, I played with comemrcial, provincial, national, player version of different hurricanes on different blades and different amount of boosting, but it is not for me. I need the rubber to make the work for me on fh, but still be a little less bouncy than dignics 05 in short game. Last tournamnet I even switched sides and played with dynaryzz acc on fh, cause it was quite wet and dignics 64 was too hard for me and ball was dropping. Of course 42,5 esn rubber was too soft and I couldn't finish with some shots that would end the rally with harder rubber, but in this situations I just had to hit 2-3 more times and still got the point where with the harder rubber I would be unable to engage the sponge and the ball would just drop


I wrote that dig09c was not good. I also tried dhs 8-80 but didn't really like it. If I don't find different solution I will probably just put k3 fx on fh.


When it comes to blade I basically made my mind. Tried easly over 100 in last 2-3 years. Didn't liek xiom blades at all, TMXi, Hugo Hall, ALX i etc, they just feel different/weid for me. A little hard. Harimoto was tad to fast and most importantly it cut my fingers after 2 sets. I ahte the shape of wings on Harimoto. From inner carbon blades I liked if zlf, zlc, custom blades from sdc and from ping-pong.tw, w968 (but it is too heavy). I also loved feeling of moby 7, all kiso hinoki 7 ply blade, but the head is too big and grip too long and thin. Also played with keyshot alpha which had great feeling, but was too flat for me. Anyway here I wanted to discuss only rubbers, cause I played with many blades already, but didn't try many rubbers.


Those rubbers are out of question, like I said I prefer something medium-soft (esn 42-47). Tried h8-80 and didn't like it at all. I tried some harder rubbers (at least for me) like dig09c, glayzer 09c, hovering dragon, zhantian yuan jian etc and just don't like them as much as softer rubbers with that nice popping sound


Actually I was considering big dipper for a short time last year, but didn't buy it after all. Might check it out, thanks. I am a little afraid going into chinese rubbers rabbit hole though and would prefer not to boost. (not moral reasons, just have no place to do it)

I have some playing partners that have transferred from Mark V GPS, Stiga Genesis and Gewo Proton for example, to Big Dipper 38/39deg on FH and they have stayed with this one for 3-4 years now, and they are not boosting.

 

[Vrael]

thanks, guess this time I will try big dipper. Now I remembered why I didn't do it before. It is not available in Japan, so I need to stock them up when I am back in Europe next time

 

[Tyce]

You blame the outer carbon structure for being so bouncy, but rather it's probably the combination with Koto that makes it so direct.
Basically you lose dampening and dwell in favour of quick elastic catapult.
Combined with D05 that's two pieces of equipment focused on catapult action over dwell.
I would opt for a Tenergy rather than a Dignics on the FH, and if that's too much of a challenge in the short game, take Fastarc G1.
For BH if you want it to be soft and safe, the slower option is Vega Europe, the faster is Fastarc C1 imo.

I wrote it with the Viscaria in mind but if you like W968 more (because it might suit your FH better) it could fit that blade quite well too. I wouldn't use Vega Europe in that case unless you really need a slow BH rubber.

 

[Vrael]

Tenergy is even bouncier than Dignics in short game as far as I remember.
On W968 current joola dynaryc cmd is okay