Rubber throw angle topic again.

[Gozo]

Hi all,

I would like to revisit this topic again.

If I understand correctly, for someone who play mainly loopy topspin style, he would prefer a higher throw angle rubber.
If a player who prefers a more flattish aka driving counter-hitting style, he would benefit from a lower throw angle rubber.
Am I getting this correct?

 

[Gozo]

My next post relates to another question:
1. If a player plays with a very closed angle during topspin, what would benefit him more? A higher throw angle or a lower throw angle.
2. If a player plays with a very more open angle during topspin, what would benefit him more? A higher throw angle or a lower throw angle.

 

[lodro]

Answers will come from all the well educated ones.
I add another question.
Why are rubbers advertised and sold according to :
Speed
Spin
Control
etc but never with "Throw angle" ????????

P.S. this could be a trick question

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Hi all,

I would like to revisit this topic again.

If I understand correctly, for someone who play mainly loopy topspin style, he would prefer a higher throw angle rubber.
If a player who prefers a more flattish aka driving counter-hitting style, he would benefit from a lower throw angle rubber.
Am I getting this correct?

decades ago, European styles are far from the table, and very high throw angles.
Asians would be closer towards the table and very low throw angle.
Both are now becoming more balance in recent years.

low throw in theory and practical is more difficult, thus more chance of error..

Both "throw" angle rubbers are kind of the same for flat hitting.
If you are close to the table, I would say, too high of a throw angle at a close angle hitting, would be less threat as a low.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

My next post relates to another question:
1. If a player plays with a very closed angle during topspin, what would benefit him more? A higher throw angle or a lower throw angle.
2. If a player plays with a very more open angle during topspin, what would benefit him more? A higher throw angle or a lower throw angle.

so in other words, forward action or uppish action.
this is 2 different school of teaching.
Most teaching from the east, is forward action ftw (thus low)

Note: If it is too high throw, it is easy to counter back (more time for opponent)

I'm talking from teaching and training shots.
If you watch pros, everything is based on sudden reaction, so you would have both, in fact, many of the "tough" shots are all non text book. So learning from pro play is the last thing a coach would want

 

[Manto76]

Why are rubbers advertised and sold according to :
Speed
Spin
Control
etc but never with "Throw angle" ????????

I think Joola and Victas both have a category called "trajectory" in their rubber descriptions which, I think, is meant to describe a combination of arc (i.e. throw angle) and depth.
I see Xiom now has something called "precision" in their rubber descriptions, but it's not clear to me what that means.

 

[lodro]

I think Joola and Victas both have a category called "trajectory" in their rubber descriptions which, I think, is meant to describe a combination of arc (i.e. throw angle) and depth.
I see Xiom now has something called "precision" in their rubber descriptions, but it's not clear to me what that means.

Thanks for your kind input, i did not know this.
Of course if we do not know the method used to obtain these figures, they are also of little value to us.
Do you know how they do it ?

In a previous thread of similar problematic I suggested to throw a ball with a robot without spin at 90 degrees to a board, then add the
rubbers to the board......................alas, no takers 🤣

 

[dingyibvs]

Thanks for your kind input, i did not know this.
Of course if we do not know the method used to obtain these figures, they are also of little value to us.
Do you know how they do it ?

In a previous thread of similar problematic I suggested to throw a ball with a robot without spin at 90 degrees to a board, then add the
rubbers to the board......................alas, no takers 🤣

You mean something like this?

Apparently when you block a topspin shot with a 90 degree angle you actually get a backspin return. It's only when you angle the racket that you get a topspin return back. As for the topic of the video though, unfortunately the two rubbers are of different thickness and tackiness, so the 2.0mm vs. 2.2mm comparison is invalid IMO.

 

[lodro]

not really, the shot has to come to a board without any spin and dead straight, then a rubber is glued on to the board and the shot is repeated. Iffen there really is a throw angle, it should show and could be measured.

Of course it might become apparent that I am simply trying to be a smartarse who tries to show that any throw angle will always depend on the incoming angle, the incoming balls speed and of course its spin .Also important would be the angle of the blade and the speed and spin imparted to the ball by the receiving blade/rubber.

Shit ! writing so much crap makes me think i should get paid for it.😁

 

[jk1980]

You mean something like this?

unfortunately the two rubbers are of different thickness and tackiness, so the 2.0mm vs. 2.2mm comparison is invalid IMO.

Yes, unfortunately with that test setup they could have been way better. They even state that the sponges of the two rubbers that allegedly are the same feel very different even though it should be the same with different rubber thickness.

higher throw gives more safety over the net, but of course a lower arc of the ball brings with it that the opponent has less time to react and will misjudge the spin on it, because remember. A high arc and a low arc top spin can have the same amount of topspin. The high arc ball will probably be blocked easier, because the opponent can see the high amount of spin and adjust the blade angle easily. A low arc ball with the same amount of spin will probably be judged wrongly by the opponent and blocked over.

 

[harty]

Hi all,

I would like to revisit this topic again.

If I understand correctly, for someone who play mainly loopy topspin style, he would prefer a higher throw angle rubber.
If a player who prefers a more flattish aka driving counter-hitting style, he would benefit from a lower throw angle rubber.
Am I getting this correct?

It's the exact opposite. A low throw angle gives a much higher spin and a low rebound of the ball after impact on the opponent's side.

 

[brokenball]

Deja VU! Yes, throw angles again!
That is because no one knows what they were talking about before so the same questions get asked over and over and over again. Some use the term to try to impress people with their little knowledge.

1. Define throw angle.
2. Why is it that throw angle is high or low but not in degrees or radians?
3. How do you use throw angle in a formula?
4. Are negative throw angles possible?

The people on mytt couldn't even agree if a rubber/paddle had a high or low throw angle.
I think I need to buy more popcorn or beer for this one.

I often say that when you can measure what you are speaking about, and express it in numbers, you know something about it; but when you cannot measure it, when you cannot express it in numbers, your knowledge is of a meagre and unsatisfactory kind.

I think the last sentence applies here.

 

[IB66]

HAVE FUN!!!

 

[IB66]

TACKY / NON TACKY BOUNCE OFF !!!!!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Now I need to step in and make some fixed to information that are too 1 dimensional and only worried about numbers.

The rubbers are all different, where? the top sheet, the pip structure and the sponge (sponge has big differences)

The whole rubber are designed by makers to have different throw angles and spin/speed and what not. This is pure numbers, numbers I don't see these science gurus talking about (ie cutting up the rubber and measuring the sponge and top sheet and pip structure).

The moment you glue, you are "expanding" or "stretching" the sponge to a certain extent. This changes the pip structure and overall performance. When you boost, it is even more.
Then you have different types of glue, the amount of glue, same per booster.

The science of hands on experience rule book says, different ways to glue the same rubber, with and without booster, ends up with a different rubber in terms of overall performance.
How can you tell without a science degree?? Practical experiments by just playing table tennis with it.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I think this sums it up.

lets change it to bunny

the bunny is low
the bunny is high

 

[vvk1]

Personally, I find these throw angle/dwell time discussions very entertaining (popcorn time!!!) and yet ultimately completely pointless and counterproductive.

If manufacturer says rubber A is high-throw and rubber B is low-throw, does that mean we cannot produce a low-arc loop with rubber A? Of course, we can. Does it mean that all loops produced with rubber B are destined to be low-arc? Of course, not.

Equipment you use is just a tool to achieve results, we just need to understand how to use it and that comes from time spent practicing at the table.

Instead of obsessing with throw angles/dwell times/COR coefficients, it is far more productive to concentrate on mastering shot technique and learning how to control the ball trajectory (speed/spin/arc/depth on opponent's side) dependent on the ball your opponent played by making adjustments to account for varying speed/spin/arc/depth of the incoming ball with the same rubber you've got on your bat.

This will actually make you a better player.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Personally, I find these throw angle/dwell time discussions very entertaining (popcorn time!!!) and yet ultimately completely pointless and counterproductive.

If manufacturer says rubber A is high-throw and rubber B is low-throw, does that mean we cannot produce a low-arc loop with rubber A? Of course, we can. Does it mean that all loop produced with rubber B are destined to be low-arc? Of course, not.

Equipment you use is just a tool to achieve results, we just need to understand how to use it and that comes from time spent practicing at the table.

Instead of obscessing with throw angles/dwell times/COR coefficients, it is far more productive to concentrate on mastering shot technique and learning how to control the ball trajectory (speed/spin/arc/depth on opponent's side) dependent on the ball your opponent played by making adjustments to account for varying speed/spin/arc/depth of the incoming ball with the same rubber you've got on your bat.

This will actually make you a better player.

Absolutely. And in line with what vvk1 is saying above, if you are using one particular rubber, your stroke, how open or closed your racket angle is on contact....you adjust these things based on your equipment, and you actually adjust these things shot by shot based on a whole host of factors.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Deja VU! Yes, throw angles again!
That is because no one knows what they were talking about before so the same questions get asked over and over and over again. Some use the term to try to impress people with their little knowledge.

1. Define throw angle.
2. Why is it that throw angle is high or low but not in degrees or radians?
3. How do you use throw angle in a formula?
4. Are negative throw angles possible?

The people on mytt couldn't even agree if a rubber/paddle had a high or low throw angle.
I think I need to buy more popcorn or beer for this one.


I think the last sentence applies here.

It is worth noting, BROKENBALL, this post has been reported by multiple users as a harassment and as derailing the subject of the thread with your own agenda.

Just so you know how your comments are received by the general public. Why not just explain what you know about the subject rather than making people feel like you are berating them for not knowing what you know?

Give us an explanation of what you feel is actually relevant about how different rubbers grab the ball or whatever else you feel is relevant to making different equipment usable.

 

[dingyibvs]

Practically speaking, the throw angle matters in how much brushing is needed to create an arc. For a lower throw rubber, you'd need to brush more (i.e. racket movement needs to be more tangential to the ball movement) in order to create an arc, otherwise the ball trajectory would be too flat. Conversely, with a higher throw rubber you can hit more and still create a good arc. This is preferable to loopers as it increases the margin of error when looping a high speed, fast dipping incoming topspin ball as well as creating a faster ball.