Schlager video describing Glayzer, Glayzer 09C and Rozena

[FrenchFrog33]

 

[jammmail]

Really interesting his opinion about switching the blade is easier than the rubber

 

[Airoc]

Really interesting his opinion about switching the blade is easier than the rubber

The logic is completely on his side. Starting with a slow blade and slow rubbers, then upgrading to a faster blade and faster rubbers at the same time, like it´s often done, demands changing your strokes.
Keeping one component permanent is a good way to go, for example if you start with Primorac blade you can pair it with rubbers from beginner level to advanced level, i.e. give beginners a racket that "grows" with them.
But of course why not make the rubbers the permanent component, maybe only adjusting thickness, then going from slower blade to faster blade with them.

On a side note, I would love to see more of Werner and I am happy that Butterfly obviously considers it money well spent to have him present the budget level rubbers, because he brings so much knowledge and expertise to the case, from his very own point of view. Wouldn´t make sense to make a Glayzer/Rozena video with Ovtcharov or any other current Butterfly star.

 

[JJ Ng]

Thank you for linking this video. Absolutely fascinating.

I agree with 90% of what Schlager says. The only 10% I disagreed with is changing the blade is easier than changing the rubber.

Too many adult players get started with with Timo Boll ALC or Viscaria with Tenergy on both sides. It scares the heck out of me.

People should start, again I have said it before, with OFF- five-ply wood. It does not matter it is the celluloid or plastic ball era. It does not matter it is the 38mm or 40+mm era. Then the rubber I would recommend would be either Mark V if you want to go old school or Xiom Vega Europe with slight tensor property.

It is important from the beginning, for the players, to feel their equipment, get to know their blades and understand their rubber. The blade (the whole set-up) should be an extension of their arms and hands and give them feedback so they learn how to use it. Therefore a margin of safety where you can be off slightly a bit but yet the ball still confidently lands on the table is very very important. That also allows the beginners to start fooling around their paddles with various strokes (such as fishing the ball from mid distance or trying returning serve with weird side spin flip) when they become more advanced. I am agree with Schlager there 100%.

I mean, if you start a young player (kid or adult) with Viscaria and Tenergy 05 on both sides, the ball just shoots off. Where is the touch? How do you vary the angles of your paddle so you still feel confident that the balls will land on the other side? Too much catapult is a nemesis for a beginniner to get to know his or her equipment.

Personally, I have not heard much good thing about Rozena. I have one sheet of Rozena on a blade that I traded for so I might try that. But starting with Glayzer (skipping Rozena but don't go to Tenergy or Dignics yet) is a great way to start learning table tennis, albeit an expensive way (but what do you expect? This video is paid for by Butterfly).

I can see the Xiom Vega series starting with Vega Intro, going to Vega Elite, going to Vega Europe, then going to Vega Asia/Japan, before finally landing in Vega Pro/X to be a much cheaper and even more gradual way of progresing up the skill set.

Finally I have tried a lot of blades. Each blade is different, and each blade combined with different rubbers is different. So that's where I disagree with Schlager. I think you should stick with the same blade and then change the rubber. I think many 5-ply wood or 7-ply wood can easily support a player up to 2000 or 2200 level. Seriously Donic Persson PowerPlay, a 7-ply wood, is very fast and combined with Tenergy or Dignics (or Xiom Vega X/Pro) can support a player easily at the 2000 or 2200 level.

Overall, very very impressive video!!!!

 

[piligrim]

The logic is completely on his side. Starting with a slow blade and slow rubbers, then upgrading to a faster blade and faster rubbers at the same time, like it´s often done, demands changing your strokes.

Why not other way around? Fast blade with slow rubbers then upgrade rubbers on same blade? I think changing blade make even more impact on your game then changing rubbers

 

[JJ Ng]

Why not other way around? Fast blade with slow rubbers then upgrade rubbers on same blade? I think changing blade make even more impact on your game then changing rubbers

I agree. I think in this aspect, we have to remember this is an ad or commerical made by Butterfly, funded by Butterfly with the subliminal message that Glayzer is good. The message is "keep your Glayzer and change your blades!"

I can see how Glayzer got sh*t on since it was released. Everyone is making a video and how it is so slow. But everyone is forgeting that the reviewer is used to Tenergy and/or Dignics so we have to take their opinions within that context as well.

Personally I have played with my friends' Glayzer. I like it. I like regular Glayzer more than Glayzer 09c. Honestly Glayzer is already slow so you don't need the tackiness on Glayzer 09c to slow it down more. However, when I played with my friend's slower, inner carbon blade that has Glayzer on both side, I feel very confident. I can hit or loop slow. Then I can increase my power and hit faster, and power drive/power loop. I feel very good about it.

However, is it $50 good? Nay, I can score Xiom Europe/Asia/Japan/Pro/X for about $25 to $28 a sheet with 30% bulk discount from TT11 or Dandoy, basically half price so take it as it is. I do notice the top sheet of Xiom Vega showing some wear and tear. It does not affect the playing so far. But heck, I can buy two sheets of Xiom Vega for one sheet of Glayzer. On the other hand, someone can say that Glayzer/Tenergy/Dignics last forever so they are cheaper in the long run. I am not going to argue with that. When it is your money, you spend on whatever suits you.

 

[NextLevel]

Why not other way around? Fast blade with slow rubbers then upgrade rubbers on same blade? I think changing blade make even more impact on your game then changing rubbers

Everything is relative, but the variance in your game caused by rubbers is much more than the variance in your game caused by blades. It is easier to adjust to a new blade with rubbers you know than to adjust to a new rubber with blades you know. This is not even a serious discussion IMHO.

 

[NextLevel]

Everything is relative, but the variance in your game caused by rubbers is much more than the variance in your game caused by blades. It is easier to adjust to a new blade with rubbers you know than to adjust to a new rubber with blades you know. This is not even a serious discussion IMHO.

I just watched the video and he is making a point he has made before and it is not so much about whether blades or rubbers are easier to change by themselves, but that he would rather that beginners start with a setup that enables looping, and that it is better to be able to play with a setup that enables all the advanced strokes from the start, more so because no one needs to speed glue to play anymore. That's what he means by modern rubbers being more durable today.

 

[piligrim]

Everything is relative, but the variance in your game caused by rubbers is much more than the variance in your game caused by blades. It is easier to adjust to a new blade with rubbers you know than to adjust to a new rubber with blades you know. This is not even a serious discussion IMHO.

I thought it's recommended for beginners to start with soft rubbers and once get better change to harder rubbers ...

 

[NextLevel]

I thought it's recommended for beginners to start with soft rubbers and once get better change to harder rubbers ...

Many things are recommended. Whether they actually make sense depends on whether there is coaching and what the coach is trying to do and there is no right or wrong answer there. There is nothing that comes to mind that makes it hard for someone to use Rozena to start learning TT other than money and coaching.

 

[hclnnkhg]

Touch shots (short spinny serves, short push etc.) involve mostly rubber and little of the blade (unless you have a very fast blade).

Most rallying shots involve both the rubber and the blade (block, drive, loop etc.)

I can hardly think of a shot that is mostly dominated by the blade but isn't influenced by the rubber much. Maybe a full-power smash or a punch.

So it makes some sense that rubber affects your game more than the blade, especially when you need to serve for 50% of the points in a game, but you will rarely smash with full power (even if you do smash with full power, you rarely HAVE TO smash it with full power anyway).

 

[NextLevel]

Touch shots (short spinny serves, short push etc.) involve mostly rubber and little of the blade (unless you have a very fast blade).

Most rallying shots involve both the rubber and the blade (block, drive, loop etc.)

I can hardly think of a shot that is mostly dominated by the blade but isn't influenced by the rubber much. Maybe a full-power smash or a punch.

So it makes some sense that rubber affects your game more than the blade, especially when you need to serve for 50% of the points in a game, but you will rarely smash with full power (even if you do smash with full power, you rarely HAVE TO smash it with full power anyway).

There used to be a time too when people would recommend beginners start with thin sponge. Then there was a time when gluing was only for advanced players and that beginners should start with traditional rubbers. Schlager has always been of the view that it is best for a player with lofty goals to start using advanced thick sponge rubbers as early as possible so that strokes and feeling doesn't need to be relearned. This I think was his main point, not so much that the blade should be changed more than the rubber or that changing blade doesn't require relearning. I find the change in blocking between offensive all wood and offensive composites to be significant. Just speaking for myself though, maybe others have a different feeling.

 

[JJ Ng]

There used to be a time too when people would recommend beginners start with thin sponge. Then there was a time when gluing was only for advanced players and that beginners should start with traditional rubbers. Schlager has always been of the view that it is best for a player with lofty goals to start using advanced thick sponge rubbers as early as possible so that strokes and feeling doesn't need to be relearned. This I think was his main point, not so much that the blade should be changed more than the rubber or that changing blade doesn't require relearning. I find the change in blocking between offensive all wood and offensive composites to be significant. Just speaking for myself though, maybe others have a different feeling.

I agree with thick sponge rather than thin sponge. I agree with softer/less bouncy rubber, say Xiom Vega Intro/Elite/Europe, than harder/softer rubber, say Xiom Vega Pro/X.

Today I just played with Dignics 64 1.9mm sponge on my backhand. It was fine. Nothing too good and nothing too bad. Can I control it? Yes. Can I loop with it? Not really. I quickly went back to my regular blades with Rakza 7 soft and C-1 on the backhand side and I can loop again!

Everything is relative. I will probably save that Dignics 64 for another day in the future unless some clubmates want to buy if off of me.

 

[lodro]

Looks to me like the Glayzer does everything that any decent chinese rubber will do , at less than half the price 😁

 

[Tommy16]

I thought it's recommended for beginners to start with soft rubbers and once get better change to harder rubbers ...

Actually Schlager and many many good coaches does it other way around. Soft rubbers gives you a "free speed" and you don't learn how to generate your own power. It's also modern thinking that when a kid has learned basics he/she should move to the max thickness rubbers right away. That way they will learn how to utilize max sponge from very early age. No some might think "but what about the control?". With slow blade and max sponge semi hard rubbers you will have a lots of control. Infact I would claim that 47 degree esn rubbers has generally better control than 42 degree variants just because 47 degree rubbers are less bouncy than softer ones.

 

[longle]

Schlager seems like a very knowledgeable chad, talking with wise words. I completely agree with playing with slow rubbers on fast blade when you often play high level matches. In Vietnam the coaches also sell table tennis equipments, and they often suggest the beginners to buy their stuff which usually are Viscaria/TMB ALC + Tenergy 05/64, which in my point of view is totally inappropriate, I see almost of the students can't get their form right (mostly due to the very fast setup)

 

[JJ Ng]

Schlager seems like a very knowledgeable chad, talking with wise words. I completely agree with playing with slow rubbers on fast blade when you often play high level matches. In Vietnam the coaches also sell table tennis equipments, and they often suggest the beginners to buy their stuff which usually are Viscaria/TMB ALC + Tenergy 05/64, which in my point of view is totally inappropriate, I see almost of the students can't get their form right (mostly due to the very fast setup)

I am not a big fan of Chinese rubbers for beginners. At $10 or $15 a sheet for, say, Friendship, how much money can you make?

Now in North America, a sheet of Tenergy is $72. Say the coach gets it for $45-50 and cannot give it discounted (due to Butterfly regulation), the amount of money is sizeable.

I agree that the rubber should not be too catapulty but I still feel that soft rubber with max sponge probably helps the stroke development more. So my favoriate beginner's rubber lies somewhere between Xiom Vega Intro/Elite/Europe.

 

[Lazer]

When You are a beginner You don't want to hit to hard, You need to hit a little softer so You will need at least some speed on You equipment. However I am totally for the change the blade first philosophy. I used to like slow blades and I adjusted my rubber accordingly. After I changed to a little slower Chinese rubbers I need to up the blade speed a little. I have not done that yet and I am forced to hit harder. I can really tell because it takes a toll on my shoulder.
However I think my accuracy has gone up. But soon I will step up the blade a little.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[longle]

I am not a big fan of Chinese rubbers for beginners. At $10 or $15 a sheet for, say, Friendship, how much money can you make?

Now in North America, a sheet of Tenergy is $72. Say the coach gets it for $45-50 and cannot give it discounted (due to Butterfly regulation), the amount of money is sizeable.

I agree that the rubber should not be too catapulty but I still feel that soft rubber with max sponge probably helps the stroke development more. So my favoriate beginner's rubber lies somewhere between Xiom Vega Intro/Elite/Europe.

Of course the profit selling cheap Chinese rubbers is very low, I guess they can earn 5$ for a 15$ rubber ? But I know my friend who is selling Chinese rubbers, he said the profit is good, he can buy from the manufacturer in China for only a little more than 20$ for a H3 Prov Blue Sponge, and sell it for 40$.

Agree with your saying beginners' rubbers should be soft and catapulty, but not too fast. Xiom Vega Europe is a great choice, and Rakza 7 or any tensor rubbers which are around 40-50$

 

[bobpuls]

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