So Coach Tao Li is posting videos again :)

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Always nice with videos explaining stuff! I think What he says often sounds good, But i Do not think his technique Always looks so good. But everyone so not need to play the same.

I know that you so not need to be a good player to be a good coach, But it would be interesting to know how good this Guy have been. Anyone knows?
 
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"Who is Coach Tao Li? A former professional Chinese player, he trained and competed with some of the best players in China during his era and is a former Chinese national champion and sought-after coach. His coaching has positively impacted thousands of players worldwide."

That said, seems to me that he is for sure better than pretty much anyone else in the youtube TT coaching scene, just judging by that history :>
 
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I can imagine that they want it to sound good so Maybe they make it sound better than it really is.

I have a hard time Seeing that he could have been so good with that technique. But the technique Do not need ro be perfect, as long as it works for you so Maybe he was so good.
 
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I know that you so not need to be a good player to be a good coach, But it would be interesting to know how good this Guy have been. Anyone knows?

I was in China training at the place where he was getting his degree in coaching. Although he was retired from playing, he had to practice at the college a few hours every day. I was told by some of the coaches that he was one of the very top players for his age in China in his early teens. I got to see him train first hand. When he did multi-ball he almost never missed. There were several retired province players there and even compared to them he would just simply never miss. In fact, he could hold conversations with random people when doing multi-ball and still not miss. He was a super nice guy, hilarious to talk to and very laid back. He also could turn up his playing level to 11, ala Spinal Tap, when he felt like it. I saw this happen during the school championship when he played someone who may have annoyed him for some reason. Keep in mind now he is probably in his 40s and played seriously during the 38mm hidden serve era. He had to be minimum 2700+ when younger if not higher. Also if he has any advice to give, it would be good idea to take it seriously.
 
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I can imagine that they want it to sound good so Maybe they make it sound better than it really is.

I have a hard time Seeing that he could have been so good with that technique. But the technique Do not need ro be perfect, as long as it works for you so Maybe he was so good.

For Schlagers not so pretty technique, he did achieve to become a world champion
So yeah, not perfect technique by the eye can indeed get results
 
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For Schlagers not so pretty technique, he did achieve to become a world champion
So yeah, not perfect technique by the eye can indeed get results

I also often use him as an example. I think his form is okay But he is somewhat stiff i think.
 

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iIt is very old fashion loop.No chance today with this kind of loop.Look at loop of Zhand jike and compare,Much shorter stroke.Actually Tao li I think was a penholder when he was young,saw some videos on you tube as a penholder.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m6r50s_bics
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-NF-AxMM0A

That was one thing i also reacted at about his technique. Against backspin in my opinion you want an more explosive stroke with Lot of acceleration compared to against topspin. It is difficult to be explosive and accelerate well if you have to big of a stroke i think.
 
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This is silly funny even the English speaking crowd wanna see the coach be an absolute top level player or just totally not wanna hear what he says.

Chinese parents in USA are EXTREME like this with coaches. They want the absolute best former player they can reasonably get their kid to... and if that coach plays practice rallies, matches or God forbid, a tourney and has an opponent return their best shots or the death punishment of LOSING a match... then the Chinese parent will want nothing to do with that coach...

Haha so silly, see it ALL THE TIME in USA.

Next Level is a prime example of a highly effective coach with a ceiling of maybe 2200s USATT level (which is 5-6 levels below the prototypical imported Chinese coach in USA) (Chinese parents and many adults (for their private training) would quickly reject a coach of this play level) who can smoke 99 percent of those Chinese coaches' coaching performance in terms of making adults understand concepts, take to them, and improve technique leading to better match results... hands down.

Being an absolute top player has next to zero relevance in ability to coach. Sure, it usually takes having performed at some hind of high level in order to instill fundamentals and high level tactics... but that magic threshold is not former WR5-50 level.

The typical Chinese (and majority of Koreans too) use a cookie cutter pro-style training model that is proven to work with developing kids from early age, but is horribly inefficient with adult players.

There are several major categories of coaches...

- coaches who can grow a foundation with a player Basic/Developmental Coach)

- coaches who can get a layer to improve match results over time (Developmental Coach)

- coaches who can get player from good to elite level (High-Performance Coach)

- coaches who can coach a player during a match to make a huge difference (Tactical Master Coach / Match Performance Coach) USA coaches are expected to attend matches and do this as a part of their coaching)

- coaches who can lead big-time club or national team programs (Organizational/Leadership Coach)

- coaches who focus on only certain aspects of TT and are part of a coaching staff (Specialty Coach)

- coaches who are former elite pro/amateur players who take $80 USD for an hour session to for all intents - be a high level practice/drill partner who does next to zero to develop the player over years (This is the majority of the high level TT coach in USA) (This is both the coach and player's fault)

Many fit just one of these categories... some a few.

MaTT (TTD member Matt Hetherington) is a High Performance Coach with skills in several of the other areas Toss Lula into that category, but he could also be an adult developmental coach.

Jorg Roskopf is an Organizational/Leadership Coach)

Next Level and Der_Echte are adult Developmental coaches and Match Performance coaches


For developmental coaches, I would say the thing to look at is... a very simple objective and some subjective criteria

- see what people are getting coached
- see when they started and at what level
- see what levels they have grown into when (if any)
- see how effective coach gets players to understand concept and how to apply them
- see if in general player listens to coach - that is a no-shyt #1 easy to spot test to determine if someone is a leader
 
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For anyone quickly discounting what coach Li says sometimes...

I have seen explanations of Coach Li boil down a concept into an easy to understand and implementable approach.

One example is when asked how to be more aggressive on BH.

Coach Li answered that everything starts with the block, and then gets progressively aggressive from there. He didn't show an entire progression like below, be he got guy going in right direction.

- soft hand right off bounce.
- increasingly firmer hand
- move bat through black a little
- let ball bounce up a little and go through more
- step back inches and use a little longer stroke... until you are a step back and countering/looping
- stay right off bounce loose wirst and go through ball for spin
- use change of grip pressure at impact with acceleration for speed and spin (more speed with allowing ball to rise a little)

EDIT: These are Der_Echte stated BH variations/ways to add spin or speed. Coach Li showed a progression, a simple compromise BH drive shot that allows one to initially choose a block then go to a drive without giving up any position of safety.

This is easy to understand sound advise that anyone can grasp and execute with time. As often as possible, Der_Echte is usually in favor of a progressive, incremental approach... many shots of combos are very difficult to try to get right trying to do all the corrections all at once.

Serving short is a good example... too many variables to get right all at the same time... very prone to one or more error in the early part of shot that messes up the result over and over. Much more effective to isolate a few at a time, correct those, then try to put it together. Not the only approach, but often much more efficient, quicker to implement, and permanent.
 
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For anyone quickly discounting what coach Li says sometimes...

I have seen explanations of Coach Li boil down a concept into an easy to understand and implementable approach.

One example is when asked how to be more aggressive on BH.

Coach Li answered that everything starts with the block, and then gets progressively aggressive from there.

- soft hand right off bounce.
- increasingly firmer hand
- move bat through black a little
- let ball bounce up a little and go through more
- step back inches and use a little longer stroke... until you are a step back and countering/looping

This is easy to understand sound advise that anyone can grasp and execute with time.


I think I just saw the video ur talking about, where he explains that first step is backhand block, and if you're good at that it means you can do a more aggressive shot easily because it means you have good control. He then explains that control means to be in position and set/angle the bat correctly.

Then he shows how he just pushes through the block in a certain way (extending the forearm, which I never do) and the result is a rather spectacularly fast backhand.

I never play that shot. That forearm extension forward thing. What he does seems so much more economical and useful though, and FAST. I'll try it in todays practice
 
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Yeah, that vid is exactly my kind of progressive approach.

That vid wasn't the end-all... it was a quick visualization to get someone on the path... It was the right amount of info and easy to understand stuff for the level of guy asking question to get him on right track.

I expanded the visualization and further progression to the counterhit or counter loop... both away and off the bounce down the road.
 
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That was one thing i also reacted at about his technique. Against backspin in my opinion you want a more explosive stroke with Lot of acceleration compared to against topspin. It is difficult to be explosive and accelerate well if you have too big of a stroke i think.

I agree with you.
 
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I'll focus on BH arm extension thing.

I believe it is not part of basic technique, but an ADJUSTMENT... to get to the ball (if no forward step or time for it) or to move the hitting zone forward to take advantage of the ball in a certain part of the arc (off bounce/on rise/top of rise) where player is not stepping to get this position.

One can use the upper arm to get bat to impact zone and slow down/stop upper arm and allow lower arm, then wrist to whip.

There are a few advantages of this....

- This movement of upper arm to impact zone gives a player flexibility to enlarge or control the strike zone when initial selected position is not perfect
- This creates some initial kinetic energy which can be amplified by the lower arm and wrist if they stayed loose and you whip it right after the slow-down/stop of upper arm. (increase power with firming of wrist right at impact)
- That kind of whip can give you some serious power with a short stroke

I use this kind of BH in matches sometimes under those circumstances. It is quick, efficient, explosive for me.

It isn't my only BH shot, I use many. This one is just a tool I have available to me.

Against an incoming loop or drive, I usually take ball later and counterdrive it or counter loop it a little or middle off table and use a little longer stroke than at table.

EDIT: I looked at the vid and coach is showing a compromise shot. Look at my post after the vid. I do not use such a long arm whip close to table, usually only away from table or vs underspin... and I still use less of an arm there.
 
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- soft hand right off bounce.
- increasingly firmer hand
- move bat through black a little
- let ball bounce up a little and go through more
- step back inches and use a little longer stroke... until you are a step back and countering/looping
- stay right off bounce loose wirst and go through ball for spin
- use change of grip pressure at impact with acceleration for speed and spin (more speed with allowing ball to rise a little)


this is very interesting... do you think this would work in normal mult-ball block training, i.e. as you progress through the drill you alter your stroke through all the above steps ?

My son does a blocking drill but wants to be a bit more aggressive when he has enough reaction time to be so
 
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- soft hand right off bounce.
- increasingly firmer hand
- move bat through black a little
- let ball bounce up a little and go through more
- step back inches and use a little longer stroke... until you are a step back and countering/looping
- stay right off bounce loose wirst and go through ball for spin
- use change of grip pressure at impact with acceleration for speed and spin (more speed with allowing ball to rise a little)


this is very interesting... do you think this would work in normal mult-ball block training, i.e. as you progress through the drill you alter your stroke through all the above steps ?

My son does a blocking drill but wants to be a bit more aggressive when he has enough reaction time to be so

A lot of coaches will do a drill where coach hit s a BH to player's BH, then player has to do a re-loop. Initially, this re-loop is weak, but gets progressively spinnier and faster/powerful as player's touch improves.

Player uses a soft hand, takes ball off bounce, but explodes through ball a short little bit. Initially, control of grip pressure is bad and shot is inconsistent, but as feel of touch is better, player gets more consistent and spinny or fast or both depending on what they are trying to do.

For more spin, use more acceleration with initial soft had, but increase pressure progressively some at impact... always trying to take ball right off bounce.

Later, take ball on rise with more grip pressure for much faster shot... same grip change concept at impact to make more speed and spin.

It doesn't take a long stroke... this stroke is a micro stroke, often inches or a foot if real powerful. Since this is a very quick shot and does involve a high level of speed, the stroke most be short, quick, safe, repeatable.

This stroke is a foundation piece at a certain stage of BH development. Many coaches have players start practicing this shot way before they are USATT 1500 for strategic reasons... this shot develops off the bounce touch at the table... which is a very flexible skill that will add a lot of safety (you are keeping it one the table), pressure (this is quick and you rob opponent of time, while you are still safe. Even if a player will not play like this in a match at USATT 1500, it is important to start growing this shot in many coaches' opinion... it as direct carry-over to later growth and types of shots.

This even helps a player develop easier touch of the ball away from table.

The shot Coach Li is showing in his vid is a counter-drive from the block position. It isn't so powerful, but if placed right it will win point or be strong pressure. many coaches will not want a player doing that shot too much... but that shot has its place. Often, you will get a higher, weaker ball to your BH and you may need to be able to quickly and safely drive it with enough power to win the point.

I described other ways to add better power with a more compact stroke.

What Coach Li showed is a safe way to drive ball with some power when you were determined to be in a blocking position... so that shot still has safety and tactical flexibility/importance... I just do not advise to seek to use that as the primary way of BH offense... it is simply a way to add power suddenly when you were gunna block it.
 
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