Spin vs anti and pips out

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Could you guys show me or tell me how to spin a ball from a anti and pips out? because when I try to spin it the ball either sink to the net or fly out of the table.... And it just makes me lower my attacking rate in every game that I encounter anti rubbers and pips out.. -__-.. HELP me please
 
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Could you guys show me or tell me how to spin a ball from a anti and pips out? because when I try to spin it the ball either sink to the net or fly out of the table.... And it just makes me lower my attacking rate in every game that I encounter anti rubbers and pips out.. -__-.. HELP me please

loop the ball at it's peak. i.e. just before it drops - that is if you want to loop everything
otherwise loop one chop one then loop again. this will guarantee it going on the table because you are looping a flat/top spin ball
 
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We had a guy in our club who used Anti with penhold and I could get quite a bit of success doing spinny loops , but ofcourse you would need a lot of patience and stamina to keep on doing it. Against Long Pips, one loop and one push is the way to go .. the more you plan the more you will get used to those rubbers
 
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It depends on the rubber, what kind of ball you gave opponent, and what kind shot opponent is trying, and what you want to do to the ball. You also as a player must understand what each surface and stroke does to the kind of balls you give it. The timing on the ball is different as is the spin if you go by just the swing and spin you expect from an inverted surve. Once you understand what will happen for each situation, you can use your options better and avoid being off time, off balance, out of position and avoid hitting out of optimal strike zone.

Let's look at a few common situations...

Opponent has OX LP (no sponge) You serve a deep, fast topspin to teh OX LP. Opponent can only pretty much block ball close to table (unless they are REAL good and can move), opponent bumps ball back with OX LP, ball now has light underspin, ball comes back long/high enough to attack (unless opponent has great touch) the same you would like it was a long push.

You give your opponent an underspin, OX LP player uses OX LP to punch the ball firmly, ball now has light topspin or no spin and is coming at you or by you. You handle ball like it was a drive or a flat hit with less pace. Timing is awkward if you are not ready and understanding what is happening.

Opponent is using anti. You give opponent a drive, he counters with anti. it LOOKS like he is topspinning the ball, but his drive is VERY flat, pretty much a no spin ball. You treat it like no spin medium to fast pace. Use a shorter stroke (unless away from table), make solid contact through the ball and be sure to keep blade angle open some or it will go into net. MANY players keep doing this over and over thinking the ball has more spin on it, but it doesn't. The timing is different too. A flat drive will not "Kick" off the table like a topsin shot will, so often the player is also off time, off balance, not in best position, and strikes ball out of effective strike zone. It is very easy yo make this mistake. Anticipate the ball to get to you a little later or be ready to move up just a tad if away from table. When you know the timing of this flat ball and know what to do with it (safe counter topspin as one option) you can hit with more confidence, pace and spin since your position and timing are better.

These are just a few example of what to, there are many more situations playing vs an alternate surface. There are also a gazillion different tactics vs different players who use these LP or ani rubbers.
 
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Whatever shot you decide to play: safe or aggressive... if you can consistently land the ball DEEP, it is a plus to you. You have more time to read the opponent's shot and likely gave opponent a ball that is much more difficult to cope with. You are also likely to get back a long ball that you can attack on your terms. That counts for a lot.
 
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Whatever shot you decide to play: safe or aggressive... if you can consistently land the ball DEEP, it is a plus to you. You have more time to read the opponent's shot and likely gave opponent a ball that is much more difficult to cope with. You are also likely to get back a long ball that you can attack on your terms. That counts for a lot.

But how if my opponent is one aggressive anti or pips user? giving me a faster ball by making it using a power... how could I get it to a safezone or make it a counter for his/her next move?
 
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Here's one way to look at it. Whatever surface they are using, if you give away a ball that can be driven aggressively, that ball will have pace and could be troublesome to you. You could hit to that surface and get the player to give you what you want, even if it now troubles you.

I can think of three balls you give an a player using LPs or anti that he can hit hard back at you: An underspin to the LPs long that he punched of hit through to make a fast weak topspin drive, a high underspin near the net to either surface that he hits at a little les than smash pace, or a drive to the anti that opponent countered to make a medium fast or fast weak topspin drive.

Also, ANTI and LP players can hit what SEEMS to be hard balls on other shots, but they are actually medium paced shots taken off the bounce that rob you of reaction time making them seem faster. Any player with inverted can make the same off the bounce shots too, so such shots ought not be new to you.

In each case, you gave opponent a ball he can do something aggressive with, you know what his surface does, so instead of worrying about what is coming back, you should concern yourself with what you WANT him to give you and give the appropriate ball to them. You know what the ball will do, what its pace will be, how it will fly and bounce, as it shouldn't be a surprise if you give the player the ball with the purpose of ALLOWING him to hit what you want him to do... you are prepared for this and have options based on what you are allowing him to do.

Case 1: LP player aggressively hits through or punches your long heavy underspin, and creates a pretty fast topspin drive that is medium, weak topspin, or pretty flat. If you want the opponent to NOT make as fast a shot, do NOT make the underspin heavy and do NOT give the ball high. Make it as deep and low as you can. You have to know what your opponent likes. Naturally, crosscourt has the longest distance and best possible landing percentage for opponent, but LP players do not automatically hit crosscourt. They love down the line punch shot for winner if you give a higher and heavier underspin. If you want to slow down your opponent's attack on such a ball, give a very weak cut long and low as you can, there is a physical limit to how hard opponent can hit the ball and still land it with high percentage.

You are looking for opponent to make a semi-fast weak topspin. do NOT close blade too much. Use a shorter stroke if you are closer to table. Hit through the ball to one of the three best spots: Wide FH, opponent's small triangle (playing elbow), or wide BH.

An anti player can also hit an underspin in a similar manner.

Case 2: You gave up a high underspin that bounces near net or middle depth. Dude, you are toast giving away this ball to an inverted player, so don't sweat it, just read the spin better and make your underspins go deeper and lower and you take away this kill shot.

Case 3: You hit a drive to opponent's anti, he countered strongly a step from the table. Anti player needs to be a step away from table or so to help him use gravity to pull the ball down. He can hit a pretty hard shot that is flat or weak topspin. To slow his shot down, do NOT hit it high, do NOT hit it with weak topspin. An anti player can hit a no spin pretty well and make it a weak topspin. Like in case 1, anticipate a somewhat fast shot that has little topspin, be sure to open the blade and hit through the ball. Jamming the player by hitting it right at him is a very good option. So is hitting it to wide FH and going aggressively to the open BH side on next ball.

Each case you are limiting the opponent's aggressive shot towards something you are anticipating and ready for.

If you do not become comfortable in understanding what your opponent's surface does to your shots, then his shots will forever trouble you until you learn and control what you give him. Getting there takes some learning, practice and failure in matches. Once you get to a point where you are comfortable in hitting to the LP or anti to setup a shot you want, you are on your way to dictating the points in a match vs them.
 
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If you are attacking the third ball, make sure you're not serving any spiny serves because the spin on the receive will be very hard to tell.

In contrast, I make it a point to serve every kind of spin I can, especially HEAVY underspin early.

Why? Even LP has friction and they still gotta read the ball right or they net the serve. My heavy underspin serves do not appear to be very heavy, but they are. I get both LP players and inverted players to net them. Of course, any good player will quickly adjust to the same serve, but my heavy underspin serve sets up my BEST serve: a NO-SPIN serve that looks heavy. I get LP players to go aggressive vs it and they think it is heavy underspin, open their blade accordingly, then punch it out. If they are just trying to play safe, they hit it longer and higher than they want giving me a quality chance to go on offense.

Serving topspin crosscourt FAST to BH LPs is also a great idea too. If they do not react in time to chop it, they give back a predictable weak underspin long, which is a very easy ball to power away for a winner or good pressure, maybe even a heavy topspin to their FH that sets up the big finish.

If I do not show heavy spin to my opponent on serve, then my spin variations become less effective and reduce my offensive potential, which is a big part of my game.
 
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In contrast, I make it a point to serve every kind of spin I can, especially HEAVY underspin early.

Why? Even LP has friction and they still gotta read the ball right or they net the serve. My heavy underspin serves do not appear to be very heavy, but they are. I get both LP players and inverted players to net them. Of course, any good player will quickly adjust to the same serve, but my heavy underspin serve sets up my BEST serve: a NO-SPIN serve that looks heavy. I get LP players to go aggressive vs it and they think it is heavy underspin, open their blade accordingly, then punch it out. If they are just trying to play safe, they hit it longer and higher than they want giving me a quality chance to go on offense.

Serving topspin crosscourt FAST to BH LPs is also a great idea too. If they do not react in time to chop it, they give back a predictable weak underspin long, which is a very easy ball to power away for a winner or good pressure, maybe even a heavy topspin to their FH that sets up the big finish.

If I do not show heavy spin to my opponent on serve, then my spin variations become less effective and reduce my offensive potential, which is a big part of my game.

And I thought that heavy topspins or no spin services would make a ball from an LP player be like sink at the net or better that it would just fly..... ahhh.. and you mentioned that you can do a heavy under spin service... could you give me a hint or some descriptions to picture on how to do it...

Based on the cases that you've just mentioned awhile ago.. correct me if I'm wrong, but on what you have just said, I could match any kind of surface if and only I know what can it do to the ball to make it against my next move.. and I should focus more on how should I react on my side when the ball comes to me and not to the reaction of my opponent to the ball using an LP or anti rubber? am I correct about that sir? :)
 
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I got a sneaky light topspin serve that looks like medium underspin. When the LP player reads this wrong, he hits it out with his LP frequently or gives me a nice ball to attack. Every spin has its place on serve, just mix it up and keep opponent guessing and you are on your way to controlling the points on your serve.

The concept is similar on receive... you give a quality ball to the location you want, then you are controlling what options opponent has and he chooses one you are prepared for.

In real matches, it doesn't always work that way. VS an opponent who is better level than you, he is better than you because he plays better, period. His shots are better quality and his ability to cope with what you give him is better.

One must learn how the surfaces work, what works vs them, how to take advantage, and make the quality shots to setup and execute them.

Of course that doesn't happen right away. Still, one needs to start somewhere and work his way up.
 
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I got a sneaky light topspin serve that looks like medium underspin. When the LP player reads this wrong, he hits it out with his LP frequently or gives me a nice ball to attack. Every spin has its place on serve, just mix it up and keep opponent guessing and you are on your way to controlling the points on your serve.

The concept is similar on receive... you give a quality ball to the location you want, then you are controlling what options opponent has and he chooses one you are prepared for.

In real matches, it doesn't always work that way. VS an opponent who is better level than you, he is better than you because he plays better, period. His shots are better quality and his ability to cope with what you give him is better.

One must learn how the surfaces work, what works vs them, how to take advantage, and make the quality shots to setup and execute them.

Of course that doesn't happen right away. Still, one needs to start somewhere and work his way up.

ahh... It feels good to have someone who can answer your questions on the way that you are expecting.... I always play with my services,, and few are already getting dizzy with my services... but the problem with me is that I can no longer control the game after I serve. Meaning that after my opponent receives the ball and gets to me.... I'm already like an insane thinking of how I could live with how my opponent receive's it... Meaning I don't have any better plan or move set in my every service.. and that's where my problem is, also on how every surfaces work in every ball return...
 
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Being able to do more things comes with more learning, failing, training, and time. No one gets there (wherever there is) in one day.

Still, the advantage of serving is gain an immediate offensive advantage. Having a plan and options to exploit are essential. Even defenders have a plan and a way to get into rallies and sequences that favor them or at least they are comfortable with.
 
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Being able to do more things comes with more learning, failing, training, and time. No one gets there (wherever there is) in one day.

Still, the advantage of serving is gain an immediate offensive advantage. Having a plan and options to exploit are essential. Even defenders have a plan and a way to get into rallies and sequences that favor them or at least they are comfortable with.

True,... and that's where my weakness is.... PLANNING... and all comes to something that I just give away the score.... *sigh*.... But still trying to learn all about strategies against all forms of play... watching and observing some replays of different players from different Open tournaments around the world has been my very first step on learning about the mental properties of Table Tennis :)
 
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To me, it also sounds like a fuller understanding of what anti-spin and pips can do may really help you.

Here are some articles of how to play against pips and anti-spin. They are by Greg Letts from About.com

http://tabletennis.about.com/od/antispin/a/playagainstanti.htm
http://tabletennis.about.com/od/antispin/a/topspinvsanti.htm
http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpimples/a/playagainstlp.htm
http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpimples/a/topspin_vs_lp.htm
http://tabletennis.about.com/od/longpimples/a/lp_vs_backspin.htm

There are a few articles on how to use long pips and anti-spin as well. It would help your understanding of how to play against them if you knew what you want to do when you use them as well. Then you are better prepared for what to expect coming back at you.
 
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