Stiga Offensive Classic vs. Avalox P500

[z0uLess]

Why is it that Stiga Offensive Classic, allthough it has the same construction as Avalox P500, has different playing characteristics as reviewed by people on revspin.net? I understand that speed, control, flexibility and hardness is pretty similar relative to each other, but is it just that the Avalox P500 had higher build quality, or maybe that the outer layer is thinner?

Avalox P500

Avalox P500 table tennis blade reviews and ratings on Revspin.net.

revspin.net

Stiga Offensive Classic (OC)

Stiga Offensive Classic (OC) table tennis blade reviews and ratings on Revspin.net.

revspin.net

 

[ttarc]

Thickness plays an important role: 5.7 mm to 5.8 mm for the P500 vs. <= 5.4 mm for the OC.
Outer ply also plays a role: koto for the P500 vs. depending on the selection (slightly) softer limba on the OC. Very old OCs had koto outer plies too but not todays OCs.
The type of glue can make a difference. Ply thickness, weight distribution etc.

 

[z0uLess]

Thickness plays an important role: 5.7 mm to 5.8 mm for the P500 vs. <= 5.4 mm for the OC.
Outer ply also plays a role: koto for the P500 vs. depending on the selection (slightly) softer limba on the OC. Very old OCs had koto outer plies too but not todays OCs.
The type of glue can make a difference. Ply thickness, weight distribution etc.

Oh, every source I have used has said it is koto outer layer. I feel tricked!

 

[Lazer]

Everything that's stated on "revspin" has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ttarc]

Oh, every source I have used has said it is koto outer layer. I feel tricked!

You can thank Stiga for that They changed the composition quite a lot. From walnut, limba, ayous then walnut, paduk, ayous to walnut, spruce, ayous to koto, spruce, ayous and todays limba, spruce, ayous...

Stiga Offensive Wood Plies

Can someone confirm the composition of the old (70s-80s) Stiga Offensive Wood series for me, please? I've...

mytabletennis.net

 

[z0uLess]

Everything that's stated on "revspin" has to be taken with a huge grain of salt.

Cheers
L-zr

As with how you critically assess what is written on wikipedia, but it is still an average and a good measure when there are many feedbacks on the product. The problem is the hype-machine of new and trending producs that only gain momentum on their own weight.

I started playing with Stiga Offensive Classic as my first professional blade because I wanted something I could grow into and keep using for maybe two years or so, but now (one year into it) it feels like I am using an outdated type of racket that is only a brand of a different time and place.

My coach disagreed on my setup, but my argument was that is was following chinese philosophy of how to learn table tennis with tacky rubbers (flexible blade with inbuilt catapult instead of less flexible blade with more dwell time and catapult built into the rubber).

 

[longle]

I don't know about that Stiga blade but I played P500 and P700 few years ago. They have outstanding control, the P500 has more vibration but beware its outer layer is prone to damage so some lacquer protection is needed

 

[z0uLess]

I don't know about that Stiga blade but I played P500 and P700 few years ago. They have outstanding control, the P500 has more vibration but beware its outer layer is prone to damage so some lacquer protection is needed

Yea, I would very much like to try it, but it seems the blade is going out of production. As for the OC I am using now, using Yasaka Rakza Z on forehand did wonders for me.

 

[Lazer]

As with how you critically assess what is written on wikipedia, but it is still an average and a good measure when there are many feedbacks on the product. The problem is the hype-machine of new and trending producs that only gain momentum on their own weight.

I started playing with Stiga Offensive Classic as my first professional blade because I wanted something I could grow into and keep using for maybe two years or so, but now (one year into it) it feels like I am using an outdated type of racket that is only a brand of a different time and place.

My coach disagreed on my setup, but my argument was that is was following chinese philosophy of how to learn table tennis with tacky rubbers (flexible blade with inbuilt catapult instead of less flexible blade with more dwell time and catapult built into the rubber).

Wikipedia is updated by users and slowly gravitating towards correctness and doesn’t compare products against each other. It’s like facts versus opinions.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[ttarc]

...

My coach disagreed on my setup, but my argument was that is was following chinese philosophy of how to learn table tennis with tacky rubbers (flexible blade with inbuilt catapult instead of less flexible blade with more dwell time and catapult built into the rubber).

I would say this is the right way but I'm also used to these kind of setups so I might be a bit biased
Technique and also footwork matters more than equipment and this it what such a setup helps or forces one to improve but only if one is willing to.

If you plan to continue using tacky rubbers with your new blade then try to test some blades before buying them if you can. Different handles, different weight and weight distribution, different hand/finger feeling and so on. Try to get an average blade (weight and thickness) because some blades can feel and play quite differently when comparing lighter to heavier ones (Clipper is quite famous for this from 80 something g to over 100 g) but some blades are nearly impossible to get with the nominal weight (e.g. Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive).
If you like the overall feeling and handle of your OC maybe you could upgrade to an Infinity VPS or Intensity (quite expensive although it has the same structure as a Ma Lin Extra Offensive) but for these blades someone else might chime in. I'm more a Yasaka guy
Some blades with a similar structure to your OC (besides the outer ply) that could be an upgrade are:
DHS Hurricane Hao and Hurricane King (and the cheaper PG2 and PG3 afair), Stiga Infinity and Intensity, Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive (YEO), and of course the Avalox P500.
The question is how much of an upgrade the blade should be and how much time/coaching you want to spend.
I know how difficult it is to find the right blade...

 

[z0uLess]

I also think that you grow into blades and if you develop a "trick" with one blade I think there is some transfer of this experience to another blade that has different characteristics. I am kinda biased towards those blades that people seem to love on the internet. I have been looking at Nittaku Acoustic and DHS Hurricane 301. I know one player with DHS Hurrican 301 and when I tried it it felt so much more stable and consistent than mine. The speed of it is an issue, so I have decided that I am not able to control it yet. These are blades that I consider, but I have also sometimes thought about going full slow-mo and buy a Donic Appelgren Allplay V2 and stick H3's on that to go try forcing myself to develop in a particular way. I know a player that plays with it at a high level and that setup gives insane control for very little money. However, the speed of Stiga OC with Rakza Z (Mark V on backhand) is pretty slow, so in my mind I dont think I need to reduce the speed to make sure I properly develop my strokes. The dilemma right now is how much control I have of the game and what speed I am able to master to make use of it in matches. I like what I am using right now and I might jump directly into a large handle version of Nittaku Acoustic in a year or so. The reason I was looking into Avalox P500 was that it got such high praise, basically the same type of blade only better quality.

I will make a mental note of Stiga Infinity VPS V Diamond Touch. It seems like a good upgrade in speed with the same structure as my blade.

 

[z0uLess]

... there is also Stiga Offensive Classic WRB, I have heard.

 

[z0uLess]

I would say this is the right way but I'm also used to these kind of setups so I might be a bit biased
Technique and also footwork matters more than equipment and this it what such a setup helps or forces one to improve but only if one is willing to.

If you plan to continue using tacky rubbers with your new blade then try to test some blades before buying them if you can. Different handles, different weight and weight distribution, different hand/finger feeling and so on. Try to get an average blade (weight and thickness) because some blades can feel and play quite differently when comparing lighter to heavier ones (Clipper is quite famous for this from 80 something g to over 100 g) but some blades are nearly impossible to get with the nominal weight (e.g. Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive).
If you like the overall feeling and handle of your OC maybe you could upgrade to an Infinity VPS or Intensity (quite expensive although it has the same structure as a Ma Lin Extra Offensive) but for these blades someone else might chime in. I'm more a Yasaka guy
Some blades with a similar structure to your OC (besides the outer ply) that could be an upgrade are:
DHS Hurricane Hao and Hurricane King (and the cheaper PG2 and PG3 afair), Stiga Infinity and Intensity, Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive (YEO), and of course the Avalox P500.
The question is how much of an upgrade the blade should be and how much time/coaching you want to spend.
I know how difficult it is to find the right blade...

Allright, seems like spinfactory.de got some new straight handle p500s, so I ordered one of those and I wont rush the use of it yet. I think its a good progression from the stiga offensive classic, and its a legendary blade that has inspired many others that came after it. I am going to keep using tacky forehand rubbers, and I think the feel of this blade is going to be great, even though it does not support this modern punch-block style of backhands I guess, but at least it is supposed to be marginally stiffer than the Stiga OC and so it will help with stability in backhand block. When I get better at backhand looping, I will be able to handle a lot of styles in my opponent I think. The footwork has to be really efficient though. I hope I will manage to play this style!