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Tips for the backhand loop technique
- Thread starter Brozi
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some bad habits i see that you can improve:
1. your hips go up and forward.
the power comes form the core, not from the hip. if you use the hip like those oldshool 90‘s european players then you need to move from the left leg to the right leg, but most modern backhands move the hip through the flexion of the core not from the legs like you do. this is the most important thing to fix!
2. your arm is moving to little and stays to bent.
your elbow is fixed that is good but your arm needs to go forward around your elbow like a door that opens. try to move you arm forward more. now you create power from the hip but power cone from the core and transfers to the arm, so you arm should go more forward in the direction you want to play
3. no wrist usage.
the wrist is how you create the most spin. if you let it follow your arm and let it whip or snap then you can create spin to get the quality you need to be consistent
4. to stiff.
try to stiffen your core and legs and let your upper body relax. especially your arm and wrist. otherwise it will be hard to get racket speed. you will get a lot of spin and power just from beeing a bit more relaxed and let your core start the movement and your arm and wrist follow
1. your hips go up and forward.
the power comes form the core, not from the hip. if you use the hip like those oldshool 90‘s european players then you need to move from the left leg to the right leg, but most modern backhands move the hip through the flexion of the core not from the legs like you do. this is the most important thing to fix!
2. your arm is moving to little and stays to bent.
your elbow is fixed that is good but your arm needs to go forward around your elbow like a door that opens. try to move you arm forward more. now you create power from the hip but power cone from the core and transfers to the arm, so you arm should go more forward in the direction you want to play
3. no wrist usage.
the wrist is how you create the most spin. if you let it follow your arm and let it whip or snap then you can create spin to get the quality you need to be consistent
4. to stiff.
try to stiffen your core and legs and let your upper body relax. especially your arm and wrist. otherwise it will be hard to get racket speed. you will get a lot of spin and power just from beeing a bit more relaxed and let your core start the movement and your arm and wrist follow
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Keep your elbow slightly more steady and combine forearm + wrist swing rather than whole arm swing.
As always for us amateurs, there are many things to potentially improve, but taking things step by step instead will be more beneficial and manageable.
Here is how the very best pros do it:
Or here:
Or here:
Compare the footage side by side and try to "see it yourself", so that you can correct yourself in the future.
---
If you have a laptop and want to shadow practice at home, set up your front camera and record yourself doing the backhand motion for 1 minute or so while being able to see yourself on the screen.
Then review the short clip and compare to the pro footage and fix the thing you want to fix - not more than 1 or 2 things at once.
Repeat 3 or 4 times.
I personally find that to be a really useful way to work on technique and getting a movement right - It worked for my forehand loop and it currently helps for my chopping technique.
As always for us amateurs, there are many things to potentially improve, but taking things step by step instead will be more beneficial and manageable.
Here is how the very best pros do it:
Or here:
Or here:
Compare the footage side by side and try to "see it yourself", so that you can correct yourself in the future.
---
If you have a laptop and want to shadow practice at home, set up your front camera and record yourself doing the backhand motion for 1 minute or so while being able to see yourself on the screen.
Then review the short clip and compare to the pro footage and fix the thing you want to fix - not more than 1 or 2 things at once.
Repeat 3 or 4 times.
I personally find that to be a really useful way to work on technique and getting a movement right - It worked for my forehand loop and it currently helps for my chopping technique.
Is it just me or do they not use their hips or legs (other than staying low) during the backhand loop?
Like I see Malong going from right to left leg even when doing the backhand loop. Instead of left to right.
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Any tips on how to fix the 1st one? And good videos? I've been trying to figure out how to use the body on the BH, but I just can't get it right. Btw, could the problems of my loop be caused by the fact that I start in the center of my body, and not a bit on the left side? (Like fang bo mentioned in his tutorial)
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Your stroke is good, I can't see anything obviously wrong at a basic level, it just looks to me a bit tense and you do not get a lot of whip on the backswing, which makes me believe you are using your hands too tightly rather than using them like a whip. I would try to be more aggressive on the backswing to get a higher quality spin on the forward swing with whippy movements. Try to train yourself to pull the wrist/racket into the ball after whipping the racket a little on the backswing. If you watch high level backhand topspins, you see a slight blur/flicker at the end of the backswing because they are gaining momentum to come forward with fast racket speed. You seem to be stopping there and losing momentum, rather than continuing the momentum from the backswing to come forward with more speed.
You can see even some continuous acceleration in Tom's backhand here, you need to get some of that, even if you can't get to Liam's level.
Another example:
Check out this video where 2 ex-CNT team members talk about it, along with slow motion videos of them executing the technique.
My understanding is that the difference between the FH and BH is that for FH you have a right to left weight transfer, while for BH you're rotating around the right leg. The differences in technique is necessary because you're holding the racket in your right hand. When you launch a big FH shot your racket finishes near the center of your body, but when you launch a big BH your racket finishes way outside of your body. If you weight transfer the same way on the BH side as you do on the FH side then you'll lose your balance.
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To add something different than what others have said-
your timing is off. You are starting your backswing too early. See how you are already pulling your arm back at the same time your opponent is hitting the ball? This is causing you to have split second pauses in your swinging motion, making your shot less stable and consistent.
Your backswing should be starting when the ball passes over the net that way you can backswing+follow through in one motion unleashing the full power and consistency of your stroke.
this video is the best explanation of backhand timing on the internet:
your timing is off. You are starting your backswing too early. See how you are already pulling your arm back at the same time your opponent is hitting the ball? This is causing you to have split second pauses in your swinging motion, making your shot less stable and consistent.
Your backswing should be starting when the ball passes over the net that way you can backswing+follow through in one motion unleashing the full power and consistency of your stroke.
this video is the best explanation of backhand timing on the internet:
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TLDR:
1- fix shoulder and elbow as pivot, not power source
2- maintain weight in front whole time.
then you're good to go.
I've found randomly a BH shot of yours, when we play in slow mo:
1. backswing
2. swing
3. just hit the ball
4. after you hit
it seems that your elbow rising a lot in swing phase, it looks like you are hitting more with your shoulder instead of forearm/wrist/waist combo.
And 3.step, you are leaning back, so most of your power is not delivered the ball actually. you can think like you are pushing something while going back at same time.
In normal replay, it may seem perfectly fine.
But as I saw from pros and coaches, you should maintain your weight in front. Also shoulder should not move much, just relax pivot point.
you may try transfer your weight slightly left to right, not down to up.
It's also clearly seen down below these two screenshots, your elbow and shoulder goes back while hitting.
Actually you are not brushing ball towards to forward, you swiping to right mostly.
the rest of movement done after you hit the ball.
Lastly, when there is no ball, you are doing movement more correctly down below.
To see difference:
❌happening -> you can stand against wall touch your back of hand, then swipe to right
✅expected -> you can lean your elbow onto table (it will be fixed) and swing your arm
you may try to practice without moving body for a couple trainings only focusing your elbow, forearm, wrist.
this below is example of FZD, actually he maintains body weight until he finishes but it looks like he's jumping while hitting (which created misconception for us)
and his elbow is almost same position, only body part is moving is his forearm.
1- fix shoulder and elbow as pivot, not power source
2- maintain weight in front whole time.
then you're good to go.
I've found randomly a BH shot of yours, when we play in slow mo:
1. backswing
2. swing
3. just hit the ball
4. after you hit
it seems that your elbow rising a lot in swing phase, it looks like you are hitting more with your shoulder instead of forearm/wrist/waist combo.
And 3.step, you are leaning back, so most of your power is not delivered the ball actually. you can think like you are pushing something while going back at same time.
In normal replay, it may seem perfectly fine.
But as I saw from pros and coaches, you should maintain your weight in front. Also shoulder should not move much, just relax pivot point.
you may try transfer your weight slightly left to right, not down to up.
It's also clearly seen down below these two screenshots, your elbow and shoulder goes back while hitting.
Actually you are not brushing ball towards to forward, you swiping to right mostly.
the rest of movement done after you hit the ball.
Lastly, when there is no ball, you are doing movement more correctly down below.
To see difference:
❌happening -> you can stand against wall touch your back of hand, then swipe to right
✅expected -> you can lean your elbow onto table (it will be fixed) and swing your arm
you may try to practice without moving body for a couple trainings only focusing your elbow, forearm, wrist.
this below is example of FZD, actually he maintains body weight until he finishes but it looks like he's jumping while hitting (which created misconception for us)
and his elbow is almost same position, only body part is moving is his forearm.
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very good feedback you got here from the people so I am not gonna add anything else to it. Just make sure you bring the patience and work at one thing at a time. This change will take you a really long time till it gets into your subconsious. So don´t get demotivated. Also don´t forget to do drills where you have to move around aswell. Many ppl train while standing rooted in one place (which is fine till you get the feeling for the shot) but then try to also train while moving around. But again one thing at a time.
also one thing i forgot: technic is still something personal. everyone has a slightly different way of doing it depending on their bodyfunction. so i disagree to recreate the exact same motion as a pro, because it will lead to nothing. you only need the basics and find a way where you can create the most spin and power with the least amount of effort in your way. at best you will get a coach that has a serious backhand and can help you fix your technic! but doesn't matter if it looks good if it works!
you can clearly see the difference in the videos posted between fan zhendong, kalinikos kreanga and liam pitchford. all of them have an amazing backhand.
you need to come to germany where in the third and second division there are some really crazy styles and ways of playing the ball that would shock some people, but you know what, they all have amazing quality
you can clearly see the difference in the videos posted between fan zhendong, kalinikos kreanga and liam pitchford. all of them have an amazing backhand.
you need to come to germany where in the third and second division there are some really crazy styles and ways of playing the ball that would shock some people, but you know what, they all have amazing quality
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Your BH is not a loop, more like drive / blockish. A loop usually is against underspin.
Some issues:
1. Blade too open. You seems to be undecided whether to block or drive.
2. If drive, complete the full movement, your stroke tend to stop halfway, that is to say, not fully committed.
3. Go Kreanga! Now this is the REAL Backhand and he is my hero!!!
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This video popped up which relevant to this discussion.
After considering this for a bit, I wouldn't take what Fang Yinchi says literally about the abdomen generating power. Abdominal muscles aren't aligned and can't traverse in the direction you need to actually thrust your abdomen forward. So what he's saying isn't technically correct from a biomechanical standpoint.
But I think this could be a good coaching cue for people that treat the BH like a reverse FH and are cueing the wrong movements. For example, people with overly dramatic hip rotation and contact too far from the body will likely have issues with poor consistency and loss of power.
The key takeaway I got from this is that you want your racket to feel 'connected' to your core to avoid instability and loss of power. Also that the general 'feel' of the stroke is forward rather than rotational.
In actuality, to achieve this means the power is generated from the hips (and some from posterior chain probably), but it's controlled by the entire core so that the vector of power for a BH is much more forwards than in a FH. Different contact points in relation to the body mean different biomechanics necessary to achieve it, and maybe this cue is a good way to counteract carryover concepts from the FH that are harmful.
Another takeaway I get from this is that you really can't look at a player's BH form and pick apart what muscles they are emphasizing. Like the ML videos posted above, there doesn't appear to be much core rotation or weight transfer in the legs at all. The pros all look like they're just dipping down a bit, rotating their forearm out and flipping their wrist forward.
This seems to indicate that the biomechanics involved are very compact and subtle. But there's a lot more going on that meets the eye, and the proper muscle activation probably is going to require a ton of reps to get the right feel.This is really a strong suit of the BH since the smaller the movement, the smaller the recovery time. And it's a reason why BH play has become more dominant lately.
A lot of us hobby players want to use a big BH motion like Hugo when he's 3m away from the table. That's an exaggerated version of the BH that doesn't work well in distances most people play, so I think this video is a good reminder of how a compact and efficient BH should look and feel at more typical distances.
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imo this is the hardest part about backhand strokes (at least for me)
even if ur stroke is good ur balls are still going to be low quality if you hit the ball too close or too far from the body; the FH is maybe more forgiving in this aspect
in real matches its a real pain, you never know if the ball will land deep or shallow on the table, the speed and sometimes weird trajectory just adds to it
personal anecdote, most of my errors on my backhand came from poor judgement of the ball's distance
mostly the ball would end up too far for me to impart any meaningful force and spin onto the ball and it would go into the net
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Yeah, miss timing the ball and swinging too early probably accounts for 80%+ of my errors on backhand.
The more you're comfortable with visualizing your arm as the prime mover in the stroke, the more you'll be tempted to reach out with your arm away from the body to contact. You're trying to draw the same arc for the shot just further forward away from your body. This is doable, and something you kinda have to do for shots like BH flicks, but it requires better timing, wrist strength, and balance.
The good thing about the cue Fang Yinchi is suggesting is that, when visualizing hitting with your abdomen with your racket arm as just the attachment, you subconsciously will wait for the ball to get closer to the hitting zone. The point of focus switches from "can I reach for it yet with my racket?" to "it is close enough to my body yet where I can hit it?"
Seems like a it could be a very good visualization cue that could fix both of our issues. Excited to put some time into this shift in thinking.
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I would advice you to pick 1 thing to focus on at a time. And the most important thing I see for now is the wrist.
Make sure you extend it all the way through, your bat should be pointed outwards at the end of each backhand:
Right now yours isn’t extended all the way;
This one simple tip should ar least give you a solid contact every time and make it feel less awkward. Your body mechanics might not be perfect, but good enough for now.
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