Using VOC and VOC-free glues together

[tzifos]

Have anyone tried using a thin layer of VOC (old type) glue to the blade and two (or more) VOC-Free glue to the rubber? Will this work?

This way, the blade will not be affected by the water on the water-base VOC-free glue and the VOC-affect on the rubber will be minimum or none and undetectable in 1-3 days.

 

[Tyce]

It's not like VOC glues don't have stuff that degrade a blade...

 

[_ak]

It works but bond is less strong, easier for rubber edges to detach

 

[Doum]

I use Copydex on rubber and Elmers rubber cement on blade, with edge tape. No problems.

 

[AchyGeorge]

Have anyone tried using a thin layer of VOC (old type) glue to the blade and two (or more) VOC-Free glue to the rubber? Will this work?

This way, the blade will not be affected by the water on the water-base VOC-free glue and the VOC-affect on the rubber will be minimum or none and undetectable in 1-3 days.

View attachment 34554

This is what I usually do, a layer of haifu whale on the blade, 2 layers of water based glue on the sponge. It sticks the rubber down absolutely fine, and it’s easy to remove when you want to change sheets, I don’t play anywhere there will be a VOC test, so no chance of failing a racket control (and also no noticeable sneed glue effect anyway).

 

[igorponger]

It's not like VOC glues don't have stuff that degrade a blade...

Natural water incorporated in latex milk will eventually ruin plywood. Drop some amount of white latex glue on an absorbent paper, you can see a wet spot on the backside.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blotting_paper Writting applications.

____________
Be erudite of everything

 

[tzifos]

This is what I usually do, a layer of haifu whale on the blade, 2 layers of water based glue on the sponge. It sticks the rubber down absolutely fine, and it’s easy to remove when you want to change sheets, I don’t play anywhere there will be a VOC test, so no chance of failing a racket control (and also no noticeable sneed glue effect anyway).

I will try it!!!

@AchyGeorge Should I get Haifu Dolphin or Haifu Whale? I thing the difference is that Dolphin is better as a glue (stronger) and the Whale is not as strong but better at boosting the rubber which is something that I don't need.

 

[tzifos]

See

 

[AchyGeorge]

I will try it!!!

@AchyGeorge Should I get Haifu Dolphin or Haifu Whale? I thing the difference is that Dolphin is better as a glue (stronger) and the Whale is not as strong but better at boosting the rubber which is something that I don't need.

I have only ever used the whale. I think that the whale is sold as “speed glue”, the dolphin is just glue. I have never bought or used the dolphin so I can’t say much more about it. The whale dries / evaporates quickly on the blade and leaves a thin mildly tacky film.
My thought is that the bond between the water based glue and the “film” is stronger than the bond between the “film” and the wood, and I think that’s why rubbers glued this way are easy to remove.

 

[tzifos]

I ordered the Haifu Dolhin as it is stronger as a glue than Whale II. I should have ordered Whale II as I understand after watching the video above. Anyway.... I will try it.

 

[Sims]

This is what I usually do, a layer of haifu whale on the blade, 2 layers of water based glue on the sponge. It sticks the rubber down absolutely fine, and it’s easy to remove when you want to change sheets, I don’t play anywhere there will be a VOC test, so no chance of failing a racket control (and also no noticeable sneed glue effect anyway).

What is the benefit of using two different glues?
Are your blades sealed?
I'd imagine the haifu could be detrimental to naked wood also.
But if the blade is sealed then you can use any glue, right?
So I'm wondering what's the benefit of using voc on one side and water on the other?

 

[AchyGeorge]

What is the benefit of using two different glues?
Are your blades sealed?
I'd imagine the haifu could be detrimental to naked wood also.
But if the blade is sealed then you can use any glue, right?
So I'm wondering what's the benefit of using voc on one side and water on the other?

Well we used bicycle glues etc for years before the voc ban, and never really seemed to damage our blades…

I haven’t done a scientific study, my thoughts and observations are given freely. You can choose to either try them yourself and see how it works for you or reject them.

Trying it out with a cheap blade 1st before risking an expensive one would seem sensible.

I do it this way because I find it convenient / easy. Just don’t do it in the week before you play somewhere with a voc tester…

 

[Sims]

Well we used bicycle glues etc for years before the voc ban, and never really seemed to damage our blades…

Yes but the question of whether or not the blade is sealed or not is relevant to that.

I haven’t done a scientific study, my thoughts and observations are given freely. You can choose to either try them yourself and see how it works for you or reject them.

Why so defensive?
Is the blade sealed or not?

I didn't expect you had done anything scientific so I'm not sure why the sarcasm.
And I know I can take it or leave it but my mistake here was to try and fully understand what you had done and why.

Telling me to go do it myself 😂
Cheers

I only asked you cos you use VOC on the blade, it's not a charge against you. But I can't determine anything from not knowing if you seal your blade or not.

Trying it out with a cheap blade 1st before risking an expensive one would seem sensible.

I'm off now to buy VOC and a cheap blade and glue whatever rubbers to it how many times and examine the wood over years, one side sealed the other not

 

[tzifos]

@Sims many players do not like or don't want to seal their blades (see topics on this matter here in this forum). And water glue can be a hazard for some specific blades (depending on the outer ply wood type) especially for people that are testing or changing rubbers very often. Using a thin layer of VOC speed glue on the blade just before using the water glue will minimize this hazard. So simple.

 

[Sims]

@Sims many players do not like or don't want to seal their blades (see topics on this matter here in this forum).

Yes, I've read a few posts on that.
On sealing: Some blades are already sealed from the factory, some or not and I'm not saying whether to seal or not to seal, definitely anyone do what they want, no opinion from me on that.
I was just asking if the blade was sealed or not.

And water glue can be a hazard for some specific blades (depending on the outer ply wood type) especially for people that are testing or changing rubbers very often. Using a thin layer of VOC speed glue on the blade just before using the water glue will minimize this hazard. So simple.

I know this. I've had a few fibers stick to rubber on unsealed blades.
It's not that I don't understand the question here. I found your question interesting and I actually hadn't heard of anyone using this method before.

So, to people telling you that they use VOC and water glue together my questions are an attempt to full understand exactly what and why....🤷
But I have to go do it myself 😉

 

[tzifos]

@Sims check the videos here https://www.youtube.com/@RacketMan-pc3ks/videos
He use the VOC glue only in DHS blades that are very prone to splintering. He uses one layer of VOC glue and a second layer of non-VOC (water glue) on racket.

I wasn't aware that this was a common practice when I started this thread. In fact, I learned about these videos from another thread here: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/blade-sealing-with-haifu-seamoon.36553/

 

[AchyGeorge]

Yes but the question of whether or not the blade is sealed or not is relevant to that.

Why so defensive?
Is the blade sealed or not?

I didn't expect you had done anything scientific so I'm not sure why the sarcasm.
And I know I can take it or leave it but my mistake here was to try and fully understand what you had done and why.

Telling me to go do it myself 😂
Cheers

I only asked you cos you use VOC on the blade, it's not a charge against you. But I can't determine anything from not knowing if you seal your blade or not.

I'm off now to buy VOC and a cheap blade and glue whatever rubbers to it how many times and examine the wood over years, one side sealed the other not

I only seal my blades when I am using a glue sheet (I have never been able to glue ox sheets well with traditional glues), the instructions for the glue sheets I use advise to seal, so in that case I do.

In recent years I’m using Yinhe blades, they may be factory sealed, I don’t know.
I’ve genuinely made no attempt to be sarcastic, I have tried to offer / share my experiences re the ops question that is all.

As for why I did it… someone on this forum suggested using voc glue was kinder to the blade so I tried it, I found that voc glue did what bicycle glue used to do, aggressively curled the rubber and didn’t stick very well, so that the edge’s kept needing to be pressed down between points (just like you see pros doing on old footage).
Racquet felt amazing and had that wonderful popping noise, I felt all the players of a certain age in the hall could hear it and knew exactly what was going on. To my mind this is with the current rules definitely cheating / giving me an unfair advantage.
This was not what I wanted, so I tried water based glue on the sponge and speed glue on just the blade. This did give me a rubber that is properly stuck down, not massively domed, no noticeable speed glue effect and turned out to be easy to remove.
Now we’re not really supposed to use voc glue’s anymore, so each player has to decide if they’re comfortable doing so. I would hate to see someone to get disqualified when no attempt to gain an unfair advantage had been made.

 

[ttarc]

Well we used bicycle glues etc for years before the voc ban, and never really seemed to damage our blades…

One additional data point: I still have my old (from the 1980s) Persson Powerplays which are perfectly fine to play. Blades were never sealed and we used speed glued, normal rubber cement or bicycle glue. Koto top plies became darker, more yellowish over the years but this is afaik just natural ageing.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/looking-for-offensive-all-wood-blades.24264/post-327261

 

[Sims]

One additional data point: I still have my old (from the 1980s) Persson Powerplays which are perfectly fine to play. Blades were never sealed and we used speed glued, normal rubber cement or bicycle glue. Koto top plies became darker, more yellowish over the years but this is afaik just natural ageing.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/looking-for-offensive-all-wood-blades.24264/post-327261

Yes, the wood definitely darkens as it ages, I see it in guitars too.
And interesting point about the VOC glues over that length of time, maybe it doesn't damage the wood then. I suspect this is likely due to the bond from VOC being less adhesive than the typical TT glues, certainly less so than the DHS 15 that I use anyway

 

[tzifos]

The water of the water glues (and of course sweat from the hands) damages the wood!