What composite blade type is closest to offensive all-wood blade? (for example Acoustic)

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I'm wondering, with all the different inner/outer/ALC/ZLC/ special materials out there -

I believe the All wood Acoustic is considered a pretty fast blade for an all-wood blade, is it correct to assume that EVERY composite blade will be faster/more powerful then all wood Acoustic?

Which composite blade will feel the closest to an all wood blade and why? I'm talking about control, "feel", etc.
 
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I'm wondering, with all the different inner/outer/ALC/ZLC/ special materials out there -

I believe the All wood Acoustic is considered a pretty fast blade for an all-wood blade, is it correct to assume that EVERY composite blade will be faster/more powerful then all wood Acoustic?

Which composite blade will feel the closest to an all wood blade and why? I'm talking about control, "feel", etc.
About more powerful not sure but for me I find my 1 ply hinoki faster than a much thinner and carbon layered yinhe 988.
 
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About more powerful not sure but for me I find my 1 ply hinoki faster than a much thinner and carbon layered yinhe 988.
Well from the little I know the Hinoki is so special and unique compared to every other blade out there, so i'm not sure how to even compare it to anything else.. I never seen one in person.

What made you choose it over a fast carbon blade?
 
Well from the little I know the Hinoki is so special and unique compared to every other blade out there, so i'm not sure how to even compare it to anything else.. I never seen one in person.

What made you choose it over a fast carbon blade?
Well, I used to be a single sided jpen, and have heard wonders about 1 ply hinoki. I found a nittaku miyabi round jpen back in my mom's hometown and bought it for a price im quite contented with. It's feeling and touch is top notch, and never had a case of short game going out of the table. Excellent control. Plus it's soft and when you hit hard it feels like it firms up, especially when using tensor rubbers, like my fastarc. And the sound, when up to full speed the crack is wonderful too, but slightly dampened with rpb backhand rubber.
 
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I'm wondering, with all the different inner/outer/ALC/ZLC/ special materials out there -

I believe the All wood Acoustic is considered a pretty fast blade for an all-wood blade, is it correct to assume that EVERY composite blade will be faster/more powerful then all wood Acoustic?

Which composite blade will feel the closest to an all wood blade and why? I'm talking about control, "feel", etc.
LGY ALC or innerforce ALC. W968 feels nothing like all wood unless you hit it really hard
 
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So Is there someone who used to play with all-wood and then moved to a somewhat similar feeling Carbon blade and can explain the difference?
I've been using several all-woods and fiber blades over the past year.

For wood, most notably the Petr Korbel, which is pretty close to Acoustic.
Let me start by saying there is a LOT of difference in feeling between my Korbel EU (78g) and Korbel Japan (87g).
Japan's core is thinner but more solid, the medial plies are ever so slightly thinner, too, and the top ply is distinctively bigger. I can describe the Japan as "solid wood", and the EU as "plonky", or "hollow".

From there, I've tried a couple of fiber-infused blades, in chronological order:

Yinhe Pro 01: outer fiber, Koto top.
This was a big difference in feeling. Also my first experience with a (good) carbon blade.
First I noticed that you can feel the quality of your shot, but it's much harder to feel where the ball hits the bat. This is something that took me a little getting used to, and by now I think it's a matter of preference.
The harder top and hard fiber are not very inviting to hard rubbers. If you do put those on, expect the result to be pretty unforgiving. For reference, I've been using AK47 Yellow (medium) on backhand because Red (hardest) just pops the ball out way too fast.
Topspin and direct drives aren't that much harder than with Korbel. Pushes, service and receive are significantly less forgiving.

Yinhe Pro 05: inner fiber, Limba top.
From Limba to Limba feels very familiar. Much easier to use this blade in the short game. The adjustments here vs Korbel are mostly mid- to hard shots, because the blade is much firmer.
Feedback isn't all too different from the Pro 01: you can feel the quality of your shot, but the point of impact is hard to distinguish, even on slower shots where the carbon doesn't do much.
The difference in perceived hardness to Pro 01 is huge: AK47 Red on this Pro 05 feels softer than AK47 Yellow feels on the Pro 01.
The difference in perceived hardness to Korbel is a lot smaller. I'd say on light shots it's too close to call.
It's also easier to do pretty much every shot, except that this Pro 05 has such a firm core due to the fiber that overshooting hard balls is really easy.
It's also distinctively more head heavy, despite being the same thickness and having a slightly smaller head size than Korbel.

Waldner Legend Carbon: 3+2, Hinoki top.
This is an odd one. Not sure if this is even worth mentioning because it's a fairly uncommon composition, but I've played it side-by-side to my Korbel so...
The feedback is a little better in terms of feeling the point of impact. Hinoki top feels like something else, it has a lot of power yet feels soft. The softness is different than Limba, if anything I'd call it more fine-grained.
The whole blade accelerates a LOT though. Short game is slightly easier than the Pro 01 and slightly harder than the Pro 05 and Korbel. Placement isn't the problem but the acceleration takes some real getting used to.
The blade is more indifferent about rubber hardness. It's pretty head-heavy though so that's something you would need to like.

For a more seamless transition coming from Korbel, I'd say the Pro 05 with a thinner core would be my ideal blade. It would make the whole bat less head-heavy while retaining the familiar Limba feeling, and downtune the entire thing to make it less sensitive to overshooting.
 
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So Is there someone who used to play with all-wood and then moved to a somewhat similar feeling Carbon blade and can explain the difference?
I've played with Ma Lin EO, Nittaku Acoustic and now have an Innerforce ALC.
I wouldn't be the greatest at articulating the differing characteristics between blades but I can say that I really like the MLEO and Innerforce ALC but couldn't make the Acoustic work for me, I just found it a bit too fast.
The Innerforce in many ways plays like a 5 ply wooden blade and I find it easier to play with than the Nittaku Acoustic.
I'd compare it to the Ma Lin EO for much of its output and it's only when you really open up to properly activate a hard Dignics sponge that you can notice the speed from the carbon. Again, not dissimilar to the speed from Nittaku Acoustic but because of the gears it's easier to play at different speeds. Passive blocks are softer, active blocks are great. There's none of the speed you don't need, until you need it.
So, easier short game for me with Innerforce ALC and power at top end when wanted.
Acoustic, I found hard to master at slower speeds and for placement and touch shots.
Just my experience
 
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I've played with Ma Lin EO, Nittaku Acoustic and now have an Innerforce ALC.
I wouldn't be the greatest at articulating the differing characteristics between blades but I can say that I really like the MLEO and Innerforce ALC but couldn't make the Acoustic work for me, I just found it a bit too fast.
The Innerforce in many ways plays like a 5 ply wooden blade and I find it easier to play with than the Nittaku Acoustic.
I'd compare it to the Ma Lin EO for much of its output and it's only when you really open up to properly activate a hard Dignics sponge that you can notice the speed from the carbon. Again, not dissimilar to the speed from Nittaku Acoustic but because of the gears it's easier to play at different speeds. Passive blocks are softer, active blocks are great. There's none of the speed you don't need, until you need it.
So, easier short game for me with Innerforce ALC and power at top end when wanted.
Acoustic, I found hard to master at slower speeds and for placement and touch shots.
Just my experience

Wow very surprised by your post, I didn't think an Acoustic can be HARDER to play with then a carbon blade. I myself find the Acoustic to be very easy to control, but sometimes i do feel it lacks just a little more more speed/power.

When googling "Innerforce ALC" i get all kinds of different blades, could you please give a link to your specific model blade?

From your description I find it a very interesting upgrading option.
 
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Wow very surprised by your post, I didn't think an Acoustic can be HARDER to play with then a carbon blade. I myself find the Acoustic to be very easy to control, but sometimes i do feel it lacks just a little more more speed/power.

When googling "Innerforce ALC" i get all kinds of different blades, could you please give a link to your specific model blade?

From your description I find it a very interesting upgrading option.
Yeah. I guess it depends on the player, playstyle, technique, rubbers etc.
I think if the handle was perfectly comfortable that would have helped a lot but I did forget to mention that the handle was too small for me and I could never get used to it.
The inner world better not just because of the handle though, it's also because the blade is just slower on all strokes below a certain threshold and then, above that the carbon can be noticed.
 
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Yeah. I guess it depends on the player, playstyle, technique, rubbers etc.
I think if the handle was perfectly comfortable that would have helped a lot but I did forget to mention that the handle was too small for me and I could never get used to it.
The inner world better not just because of the handle though, it's also because the blade is just slower on all strokes below a certain threshold and then, above that the carbon can be noticed.

thanks for the explanation.

I myself have the Acoustic SG which stands for Standard grip, and i find the handle to be just fine as a 6'1 guy. I know the regular Acoustic has a much smaller handle.


Just to be clear, you're playing with the regular "Innerforce Layer ALC" and not the "harimoto Innerforce ALC", right?

Why do they make all the names so difficult lol...I wonder what the difference is between these 2 models of innerforce..
 
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thanks for the explanation.

I myself have the Acoustic SG which stands for Standard grip, and i find the handle to be just fine as a 6'1 guy. I know the regular Acoustic has a much smaller handle.


Just to be clear, you're playing with the regular "Innerforce Layer ALC" and not the "harimoto Innerforce ALC", right?

Why do they make all the names so difficult lol...I wonder what the difference is between these 2 models of innerforce..
That's right, the regular Innerforce ALC.
I know a guy with 09c on a Harimoto and I'm waiting to see him again to compare. I'll report in here if it's worthwhile but I'm not expecting to notice much difference tbh.
 
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I'm wondering, with all the different inner/outer/ALC/ZLC/ special materials out there -

I believe the All wood Acoustic is considered a pretty fast blade for an all-wood blade, is it correct to assume that EVERY composite blade will be faster/more powerful then all wood Acoustic?

Which composite blade will feel the closest to an all wood blade and why? I'm talking about control, "feel", etc.

I don't think you're going to get a composite blade that feels like acoustic.

One of the things that gives the acoustic it's unique feel is the use of hide glue compared to most blades that use PU. My understanding is the hide glue dampens the high frequency vibrations like a low pass filter so that you more clearly feel the low frequencies that many people find works well as useful feedback. Working with hide glue is challenging. More info here in case you weren't aware.


I'd like to also add the following unrelated to feel since I asked the same question you had 6 months ago which led to a series of questions and you might find this additional info useful.

I haven't tested enough blades to answer from experience but I did spend about 6 months reading data from ttgearlab.com and reviews of blades that are a little faster, more solid, have less hold and more kick, a larger sweet spot than my 81g acoustic.
Ttgearlab.com uses, I believe, sensors (accelerometers) and an impact hammer (force sensor) and then graphs the data based on resonant frequencies for a detailed comparison. Based on this, the Ma Lin soft carbon is similar, actually slower and has more hold than acoustic, not what I want. A slightly faster and a little less hold is the DHS 301z. I almost bought the dhs301z but there aren't many reviews and one detailed review from ooakforum wasn't great, actually a little poor. ttgearlab suggested I look at the Falk W7 (7 ply all wood Limba Limba ayous ayous) with the same hold and little faster, more solid due to being 0.8 mm thicker and I read upsidedowncarl comment about the grain direction in the sheets of wood changing each layer, along with the glue for each layer, all adding to the sweet spot iirc in 7 ply compared to 5 ply. The weight is also good for me, around 85g avg. The review of the Falk W7 from Yogibear on this forum had quite an impact along with other very positive reviews.
I tried a friend's long 5 for 6 weeks and found it was a little to physically demanding with a low and long arc along with being heavier and head heavier than I liked due to 159 mm length.

Oh wow, that was a lot. 😅
 

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That's right, the regular Innerforce ALC.
I know a guy with 09c on a Harimoto and I'm waiting to see him again to compare. I'll report in here if it's worthwhile but I'm not expecting to notice much difference tbh.
Cool I'd love to hear which blade you like more and how much of a difference you feel between them
 
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I don't think you're going to get a composite blade that feels like acoustic.

One of the things that gives the acoustic it's unique feel is the use of hide glue compared to most blades that use PU. My understanding is the hide glue dampens the high frequency vibrations like a low pass filter so that you more clearly feel the low frequencies that many people find works well as useful feedback. Working with hide glue is challenging. More info here in case you weren't aware.


I'd like to also add the following unrelated to feel since I asked the same question you had 6 months ago which led to a series of questions and you might find this additional info useful.

I haven't tested enough blades to answer from experience but I did spend about 6 months reading data from ttgearlab.com and reviews of blades that are a little faster, more solid, have less hold and more kick, a larger sweet spot than my 81g acoustic.
Ttgearlab.com uses, I believe, sensors (accelerometers) and an impact hammer (force sensor) and then graphs the data based on resonant frequencies for a detailed comparison. Based on this, the Ma Lin soft carbon is similar, actually slower and has more hold than acoustic, not what I want. A slightly faster and a little less hold is the DHS 301z. I almost bought the dhs301z but there aren't many reviews and one detailed review from ooakforum wasn't great, actually a little poor. ttgearlab suggested I look at the Falk W7 (7 ply all wood Limba Limba ayous ayous) with the same hold and little faster, more solid due to being 0.8 mm thicker and I read upsidedowncarl comment about the grain direction in the sheets of wood changing each layer, along with the glue for each layer, all adding to the sweet spot iirc in 7 ply compared to 5 ply. The weight is also good for me, around 85g avg. The review of the Falk W7 from Yogibear on this forum had quite an impact along with other very positive reviews.
I tried a friend's long 5 for 6 weeks and found it was a little to physically demanding with a low and long arc along with being heavier and head heavier than I liked due to 159 mm length.

Oh wow, that was a lot. 😅

Thanks for all the Great info Marc!

Are you currently playing with the Falk W7? Do you feel it's the upgrade you wanted over the Acoustic?

I guess the 7 ply wood is the real bridge from an offensive 5 ply to a inner carbon blade..
 
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I feel like carbon blades are invented to negate the downsides of 7ply wood: thicker, heavier, stiffer and harder to generate spin.
However, with inner carbon blades becoming thicker this composition has started to lead a life of its own. I wouldn't be surprised if 7ply made a comeback in the current era because it's a good fit for straight up power while retaining loads of feeling.

I would not recommend classic Clipper though, but something a little thinner if you favour spin. The Szocs is a great example but there's quite a few on the market now.
 
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I don't think you're going to get a composite blade that feels like acoustic.

One of the things that gives the acoustic it's unique feel is the use of hide glue compared to most blades that use PU. My understanding is the hide glue dampens the high frequency vibrations like a low pass filter so that you more clearly feel the low frequencies that many people find works well as useful feedback. Working with hide glue is challenging. More info here in case you weren't aware.


I'd like to also add the following unrelated to feel since I asked the same question you had 6 months ago which led to a series of questions and you might find this additional info useful.

I haven't tested enough blades to answer from experience but I did spend about 6 months reading data from ttgearlab.com and reviews of blades that are a little faster, more solid, have less hold and more kick, a larger sweet spot than my 81g acoustic.
Ttgearlab.com uses, I believe, sensors (accelerometers) and an impact hammer (force sensor) and then graphs the data based on resonant frequencies for a detailed comparison. Based on this, the Ma Lin soft carbon is similar, actually slower and has more hold than acoustic, not what I want. A slightly faster and a little less hold is the DHS 301z. I almost bought the dhs301z but there aren't many reviews and one detailed review from ooakforum wasn't great, actually a little poor. ttgearlab suggested I look at the Falk W7 (7 ply all wood Limba Limba ayous ayous) with the same hold and little faster, more solid due to being 0.8 mm thicker and I read upsidedowncarl comment about the grain direction in the sheets of wood changing each layer, along with the glue for each layer, all adding to the sweet spot iirc in 7 ply compared to 5 ply. The weight is also good for me, around 85g avg. The review of the Falk W7 from Yogibear on this forum had quite an impact along with other very positive reviews.
I tried a friend's long 5 for 6 weeks and found it was a little to physically demanding with a low and long arc along with being heavier and head heavier than I liked due to 159 mm length.

Oh wow, that was a lot. 😅
Good info. The OP might be happiest with a thinner more modern 7 ply honestly. Thinner 7plys are the new 5 plus lol. All wood feels good and a thinner 7ply would still be a speed boost. The Falck you mention, a Tibhar Bernadette Szocs or a Stiga Clipper (not the older thicker ones) could all be solid options
 
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Thanks for all the Great info Marc!

Are you currently playing with the Falk W7? Do you feel it's the upgrade you wanted over the Acoustic?

I guess the 7 ply wood is the real bridge from an offensive 5 ply to a inner carbon blade..

The Falk W7 86g is on the way. I'll start using it next week and will let you know. I'm committing to using it for 3 months minimum so I can adapt although ttgearlab said the ec/ep number which is almost identical between the two will make the transition much easier than if they were quite different.

Btw the long 5 I used is the 2022 version, obviously a great blade and wonder what the old one feels like to play with the much lower ec/ep although just the weight and the physical demands it has wouldn't change my direction I believe.
 
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