What'd be the good strategies as a defender against a good blocker?

[THK]

Hi, I have been playing as defender several years (10 years but on/off) and I keep losing against someone who is good at blocking.
I'd like to know what kind of thing I can try.
I will simplify my problem as much as possible.

Basically, my opponent is very good at touching the ball no matter what the situation is. And he doesn't attack when I chop the ball but returns the ball high which is easy to attack. I used to think that this is my chance because the ball doesn't have much spin and high enough to attack.
However, it turns out he blocks most of my attacks. Then what happens is either I keep attacking or I cut (chop) the ball again. Whenever I play with him, the game often becomes I keep attacking and he keeps blocking which I think it's not ideal as a defender.

Here is what I have tried:

1. Stronger attacking => Either ball goes out of table (I lose a point), or he blocks and the ball comes back to me too quickly before I recover my position. Also I make often mistake when the ball is too high. It's not easy to attack properly all the time.
2. Attack with pimple => It creates sometime wired effect but after a couple of matches, my opponent figured it out and make ball high then I attack again and he blocks it.
3. Make a short ball close to the net => It works sometimes but if he predict that, I get strong smash from him
4. Try to send the ball to the corner => Since the ball is high, I feel I can attack with very radical direction but during the match, my body doesn't move as I think
5. Fake my movement => Trying to attack to the left but actually to the right. But even if he didn't expect my fake movement, he sends me back the ball (He is tall).

(I said "blocking" but it can be blocking in front of the table or make a lobbing shoot)


I have been playing with him for 3 years and 90% of time I lose. Some are saying that I have to either give up defender or change the racket.

Here is what I am considering:
A. Give up defender and buy an attacking racket
B. Change Nexxus Pro EL rubber to something else to make stronger attack
C. Keep Nexxus Pro EL but practice better top-spin so when the ball is blocked, higher change that the ball goes out of the table

How do you think?
Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

 

[tzifos]

Have you tried "heavy" (much underspin) pushes and no-spin/light-underspin pushes to confuse him? As a defender your pushes should be excellent. Attacking is not the defender's main way to play, you have to keep your attacks when the opponent is not in good position, placement of the ball is what you should try and not just power attacks.

 

[THK]

Have you tried "heavy" (much underspin) pushes and no-spin/light-underspin pushes to confuse him? As a defender your pushes should be excellent. Attacking is not the defender's main way to play, you have to keep your attacks when the opponent is not in good position, placement of the ball is what you should try and not just power attacks.

Heavy push is the one should be done with normal rubber (not pimple), right?
If a ball is high, usually I smash but instead of that should I push?

I mix no-spin/light-underspin push but the opponent keep returning the ball high instead of top-spin.

Thanks for your advice.

 

[pingpongpaddy]

Hi, I have been playing as defender several years (10 years but on/off) and I keep losing against someone who is good at blocking.
I'd like to know what kind of thing I can try.
I will simplify my problem as much as possible.

Basically, my opponent is very good at touching the ball no matter what the situation is. And he doesn't attack when I chop the ball but returns the ball high which is easy to attack. I used to think that this is my chance because the ball doesn't have much spin and high enough to attack.
However, it turns out he blocks most of my attacks. Then what happens is either I keep attacking or I cut (chop) the ball again. Whenever I play with him, the game often becomes I keep attacking and he keeps blocking which I think it's not ideal as a defender.

Here is what I have tried:

1. Stronger attacking => Either ball goes out of table (I lose a point), or he blocks and the ball comes back to me too quickly before I recover my position. Also I make often mistake when the ball is too high. It's not easy to attack properly all the time.
2. Attack with pimple => It creates sometime wired effect but after a couple of matches, my opponent figured it out and make ball high then I attack again and he blocks it.
3. Make a short ball close to the net => It works sometimes but if he predict that, I get strong smash from him
4. Try to send the ball to the corner => Since the ball is high, I feel I can attack with very radical direction but during the match, my body doesn't move as I think
5. Fake my movement => Trying to attack to the left but actually to the right. But even if he didn't expect my fake movement, he sends me back the ball (He is tall).

(I said "blocking" but it can be blocking in front of the table or make a lobbing shoot)


I have been playing with him for 3 years and 90% of time I lose. Some are saying that I have to either give up defender or change the racket.

Here is what I am considering:
A. Give up defender and buy an attacking racket
B. Change Nexxus Pro EL rubber to something else to make stronger attack
C. Keep Nexxus Pro EL but practice better top-spin so when the ball is blocked, higher change that the ball goes out of the table

How do you think?
Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

HI THK
Obviously you need to improve both as defender and attacker, in order to beat this guy (why is it so important for you??). I think we would need to assess your technical and physical abilities and stroke efficiency in order to advise you properly as to which style would suit you best. Against other players, do you feel successful as an LP defender?. I think maybe changing to a thin sp might be worth a go as it would help develop blocking and counter hitting while allowing you a chopping option. You need to be determined and patient to make a success. Also I think maybe some coaching to improve the tactical aspects of your attacking, as from what you say at least one opponent has the measure of your attacking game at the moment.
I am guessing you are becoming inspired by this guy to take things more seriously after 10 years of casual involvement.
In that case take a look at your whole game:-
strokes
footwork
tactics
physical

it can be a fascinating journey
good luck

 

[NextLevel]

Hi, I have been playing as defender several years (10 years but on/off) and I keep losing against someone who is good at blocking.
I'd like to know what kind of thing I can try.
I will simplify my problem as much as possible.

Basically, my opponent is very good at touching the ball no matter what the situation is. And he doesn't attack when I chop the ball but returns the ball high which is easy to attack. I used to think that this is my chance because the ball doesn't have much spin and high enough to attack.
However, it turns out he blocks most of my attacks. Then what happens is either I keep attacking or I cut (chop) the ball again. Whenever I play with him, the game often becomes I keep attacking and he keeps blocking which I think it's not ideal as a defender.

Here is what I have tried:

1. Stronger attacking => Either ball goes out of table (I lose a point), or he blocks and the ball comes back to me too quickly before I recover my position. Also I make often mistake when the ball is too high. It's not easy to attack properly all the time.
2. Attack with pimple => It creates sometime wired effect but after a couple of matches, my opponent figured it out and make ball high then I attack again and he blocks it.
3. Make a short ball close to the net => It works sometimes but if he predict that, I get strong smash from him
4. Try to send the ball to the corner => Since the ball is high, I feel I can attack with very radical direction but during the match, my body doesn't move as I think
5. Fake my movement => Trying to attack to the left but actually to the right. But even if he didn't expect my fake movement, he sends me back the ball (He is tall).

(I said "blocking" but it can be blocking in front of the table or make a lobbing shoot)


I have been playing with him for 3 years and 90% of time I lose. Some are saying that I have to either give up defender or change the racket.

Here is what I am considering:
A. Give up defender and buy an attacking racket
B. Change Nexxus Pro EL rubber to something else to make stronger attack
C. Keep Nexxus Pro EL but practice better top-spin so when the ball is blocked, higher change that the ball goes out of the table

How do you think?
Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

The details matter - I would say the first thing is to get a record of the match on video to analyze and discuss it with a better player. Sometimes, our opponents are far better than we give them credit for. Sometimes, when I play casually with people who are not table tennis players, they sometimes think when I mess around that the really have a chance to beat me and the reality is that they really don't, I just beat them in a manner that enables them to enjoy the game, and if I played them seriously, they would appreciate the gap between our levels more.

If a better player sees the video and thinks you are within range of the other player, then question is what do you need to change to give yourself a better chance and even if you change it, does it mean that the other player cannot adapt and play better? This is one of the reasons why it can be dangerous to focus too heavily on match results.

In my state, we have a former German pro who is now in his 60s who plays in tournaments masquerading as if he is around our level, yet he is probably a level or two above what his current rating claims, even when we play him close in a game or two. I definitely want to beat him, but I have come to accept that I might require extreme luck (and miraculous health) to do so. I am not saying this is your case, I am just pointing out that sometimes, these things are harder than we realize.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

C7 isn't the best pip rubber out there.
do you twiddle your bat?

blockers are not really a threat, it sounds like you are the one that are throwing away points and your opponent is the defender and not you.

when playing against defending type players, then you should be more patience than he is.
you obviously like the ball coming onto to you, but you would need to chop and have variety.
push the ball long onto each side, top spin with lp to give spin variety, high arc top spin with your invert rubbers, fake chop (no spin) etc and be patience and wait for an opening.
it could come and the ball is blocked, then go throw all that again and seek the next opening.

 

[THK]

HI THK
Obviously you need to improve both as defender and attacker, in order to beat this guy (why is it so important for you??). I think we would need to assess your technical and physical abilities and stroke efficiency in order to advise you properly as to which style would suit you best. Against other players, do you feel successful as an LP defender?. I think maybe changing to a thin sp might be worth a go as it would help develop blocking and counter hitting while allowing you a chopping option. You need to be determined and patient to make a success. Also I think maybe some coaching to improve the tactical aspects of your attacking, as from what you say at least one opponent has the measure of your attacking game at the moment.
I am guessing you are becoming inspired by this guy to take things more seriously after 10 years of casual involvement.
In that case take a look at your whole game:-
strokes
footwork
tactics
physical

it can be a fascinating journey
good luck

Hi pingpongpaddy,
It's a good question the reason why it's so important for me to beat this guy. I have been playing mostly with him for last 3 years since there aren't many players in my club. He and I have quite similar level at the beginning and I still believe we have similar level of skills. But I always lose in the match which makes me frustrating.
For last 3 years I have been analysing my week points and kept improving. Indeed he and I both improved a lot.
However, no matter what I try, I lose anyway by 90%+ changes. I think my anger makes me blind and unstable.
It's funny that I have been losing for 10 years ever since I started table tennis but still I get frustrated.
I am trying hard to be positive and keep my hope that I can win one day.

I read a book called "Get your game face on like the pros" and also seeing a psychologist to improve my mental state.
But I think the big problem is my knowledges and skills. I think my backhand rubber (C7) is mid-long pimple and I can chop and even attack with that. Often pimple attack makes surprise low beginners. I am ok to change my rubber if I can win against him.
I will record my plays and focus on what you have mentioned.
Thanks.

 

[THK]

The details matter - I would say the first thing is to get a record of the match on video to analyze and discuss it with a better player. Sometimes, our opponents are far better than we give them credit for. Sometimes, when I play casually with people who are not table tennis players, they sometimes think when I mess around that the really have a chance to beat me and the reality is that they really don't, I just beat them in a manner that enables them to enjoy the game, and if I played them seriously, they would appreciate the gap between our levels more.

If a better player sees the video and thinks you are within range of the other player, then question is what do you need to change to give yourself a better chance and even if you change it, does it mean that the other player cannot adapt and play better? This is one of the reasons why it can be dangerous to focus too heavily on match results.

In my state, we have a former German pro who is now in his 60s who plays in tournaments masquerading as if he is around our level, yet he is probably a level or two above what his current rating claims, even when we play him close in a game or two. I definitely want to beat him, but I have come to accept that I might require extreme luck (and miraculous health) to do so. I am not saying this is your case, I am just pointing out that sometimes, these things are harder than we realize.

Thanks for your advice.
Yes, I am trying not to focus on the match result although my brain naturally calculate like "oh I lost again like usual" or "oh I won the game after 10 weeks of losing" like that.
I'd like to go back to the moment where I purely enjoy table tennis but it's quite hard these days. Currently I keep trying to improve my skills and tactics instead of giving up table tennis.

 

[Leno]

Not my expertise, but i suggest you to chop or push close to the edge of his table.
If you are able to do that it is really hard for the opponent to control a high ball with a good placement. The ball may end up closer to the net, which makes your attacks more effective, due to shorter distance and wider options.

If he still does not attack and gives you a controlled return you can start with the spin variation. I think a lot of people neglect that chopper can vary their distance in chop as well. The major turn off for attackers in my opinion, is actually if you get him out of his comfortable range.

 

[THK]

C7 isn't the best pip rubber out there.
do you twiddle your bat?

blockers are not really a threat, it sounds like you are the one that are throwing away points and your opponent is the defender and not you.

when playing against defending type players, then you should be more patience than he is.
you obviously like the ball coming onto to you, but you would need to chop and have variety.
push the ball long onto each side, top spin with lp to give spin variety, high arc top spin with your invert rubbers, fake chop (no spin) etc and be patience and wait for an opening.
it could come and the ball is blocked, then go throw all that again and seek the next opening.

Exactly! I feel like when I play with him, I become an attacker and he is defender!
And when he makes the ball high, I thought that it's obviously a easy chance to win but it wasn't.
Thanks for your advice I will try to make spin or fake spin instead of attacking when the ball is high (yes, I do twiddling).

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Hi, I have been playing as defender several years (10 years but on/off) and I keep losing against someone who is good at blocking.
I'd like to know what kind of thing I can try.
I will simplify my problem as much as possible.

Basically, my opponent is very good at touching the ball no matter what the situation is. And he doesn't attack when I chop the ball but returns the ball high which is easy to attack. I used to think that this is my chance because the ball doesn't have much spin and high enough to attack.
However, it turns out he blocks most of my attacks. Then what happens is either I keep attacking or I cut (chop) the ball again. Whenever I play with him, the game often becomes I keep attacking and he keeps blocking which I think it's not ideal as a defender.

Here is what I have tried:

1. Stronger attacking => Either ball goes out of table (I lose a point), or he blocks and the ball comes back to me too quickly before I recover my position. Also I make often mistake when the ball is too high. It's not easy to attack properly all the time.
2. Attack with pimple => It creates sometime wired effect but after a couple of matches, my opponent figured it out and make ball high then I attack again and he blocks it.
3. Make a short ball close to the net => It works sometimes but if he predict that, I get strong smash from him
4. Try to send the ball to the corner => Since the ball is high, I feel I can attack with very radical direction but during the match, my body doesn't move as I think
5. Fake my movement => Trying to attack to the left but actually to the right. But even if he didn't expect my fake movement, he sends me back the ball (He is tall).

(I said "blocking" but it can be blocking in front of the table or make a lobbing shoot)


I have been playing with him for 3 years and 90% of time I lose. Some are saying that I have to either give up defender or change the racket.

Here is what I am considering:
A. Give up defender and buy an attacking racket
B. Change Nexxus Pro EL rubber to something else to make stronger attack
C. Keep Nexxus Pro EL but practice better top-spin so when the ball is blocked, higher change that the ball goes out of the table

How do you think?
Any advice would be helpful. Thanks.

Oh! This I have got to watch a video to believe it. A blocker versus a defender / chopper. Pls show me a video! I need to expand my horizon!!! Pretty please!

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Exactly! I feel like when I play with him, I become an attacker and he is defender!
And when he makes the ball high, I thought that it's obviously a easy chance to win but it wasn't.
Thanks for your advice I will try to make spin or fake spin instead of attacking when the ball is high (yes, I do twiddling).

ok, then I hope you can use more variety
or maybe work on your inverted top spin
Difficult to tell without video, but today, even defenders have very strong forehands.
BH pip placement and variation + forehand top spin

good luck!

 

[blahness]

Idk, most good defenders I played have massive FH loops which will punish weak balls hard. The pips BH is normally just to generate opportunities for the FH to finish off.

 

[merlin el mago]

Serve & hits always long without spin to his long pips so wait your high no spin ball to attack.

 

[PoorPingPong&PianoPlayer]

Try to vary and finish some high ball with a chop smash. My colleague used to play a similar high and spinny lifts against me, but he stopped it when I killed 99% of them just by this technique. In fact I played it intuitively because I was scared by obvious insane amount of the spin. Then I found out it's even a documented technique Most points I won immediately. Sometimes he fell into a very unpleasant position (due to low bounce) allowing me to finish him easily one shot later. I think it could work for you as well. At least a such variance could make him nervous.🤘

 

[JJ Ng]

I agree with the other poster. Short pips, you can attack and keep the ball flat. Long pips, you rely on the wobbling effects and the spin reversal. Medium pips is like the worst of both world.

Any pips that you add sponge to it, yes, the disturbing and wobbling effects become less.

I think for long pips ,the gold standard has been Tibhar Grass D.TecS, ox (no sponge). However, for literally a piece of rubber (without sponge), it costs about $45 which to me feels like highway robbery.

Another popular long pips coming out of China is Dawei 388D-2. It is about $12.50 on Aliexpress from BEO store. That price tag is easier to swallow.

I have used Tibhar Grass D.TecS. It is ok. I mean I am from the era (1990's) where long pips could be frictionless and actually with LONG pimples so my expectation is a bit skewed. When I was playing in the 1990's, it was very very hard to play against long pips. Nowadays, most long pips either reverse the spin a little bit (only "a little bit" because long pips from 1990's REALLY reverse the spin majorly) or come back as a dead ball.

I have a sheet of Dawei 388D-2 but I have not attached it to a blade yet. I will get around to it one of these days.

Earlier this year, I played with short pips on my backhand for 2 months or so. I really liked Der Materialspezialist Spinfire, 1.8mm sponge. Anything faster that was harder to control for me. So I like the
Der Materialspezialist brand as well. Der Materialspezialist Kamikaze seems to be their most popular long pip item.

FYI. I did play with a Nittaku medium pips before. I forgot the name of the rubber. I did not really like it because again, medium pips seem to have the worst of both worlds compared to short pips and long pips.

 

[merlin el mago]

I agree short pips or anti is the best to play against long pips.