Which sealant and glue is better of the two?

[Przemooo]

Which sealant and glue is better of the two?

I'm gluing my first blades and I'm asking for advice.

I bought two sealants. Which one is better?

Xiom T-Guard, supposedly water-based

Lakier Xiom Pro T-Guard 70 ml

Lakier zabezpieczający deskę przed uszkodzeniami podczas zdejmowania okładzin. Wyprodukowany na bazie wody, zgodnie z nowymi przepisami ITTF. Wygodny w użyciu. Sprawdzony w testach - nie zmienia parametrów deski. Szczególnie polecany do desek z okładzinami klejonymi klejem wodnym.

ping24.pl

And recommended by Carl: Minwax Wipe Poly:

https://allegro.pl/oferta/lakier-ochronny-do-drewna-minwax-wipe-on-poly-473ml-satynowy-14295671957

And for gluing rubber I bought two. Same question, which one is better and why?

Elmer's glue - one forum user uses it and it does not protect the wood at all:

https://allegro.pl/oferta/klej-elmer-s-bialy-plynny-118-ml-13791362772

The second one is: Xiom Pro T-Glue 250 ml

Has anyone used this one too?

MODEST - Tenis stołowy, sklep internetowy - Klej Xiom I-bond 0,5 l

Tenis stołowy - profesjonalny i amatorski sprzęt, informacje o sprzęcie, sklep internetowy. Rok zał. firmy 1988.

www.modest.com.pl

 

[pong99]

lots of people still use elmers RUBBER CEMENT, but that isn't what you bought, you bought elmers white school glue, don't use that

use the Xiom glue since you already bought it

 

[Przemooo]

Ok.
Rubber glue is not allowed?

 

[pong99]

Rubber cement is not "banned" glue. If you are pro and playing in a tourney where they test for VOC and your rubber is over the VOC ppm limit, your rubber will fail.

If you take a brand new rubber fresh out the package and glue with water glue and go directly to get it tested for VOC, it might fail, since VOC is used to make the rubber. Let it air out a day or two or whatever, it will pass. Same for rubber cement.

People still use rubber cement because it is what everyone used for a long time and way cheaper than "table tennis" glue.

For the 99.9% of people who are not pro, this VOC issue is a don't care.

 

[Sims]

Ok.
Rubber glue is not allowed?

Keep it simple.
Just use the sealer recommend by Carl and the Xiom Table Tennis specific glue you have already bought.
You're overcomplicating things by introducing glues (school glue???🙄) not specifically made for TT, especially as you've never tried it before or even glued rubber before.

 

[Sims]

Rubber cement is not "banned" glue. If you are pro and playing in a tourney where they test for VOC and your rubber is over the VOC ppm limit, your rubber will fail.

If you take a brand new rubber fresh out the package and glue with water glue and go directly to get it tested for VOC, it might fail, since VOC is used to make the rubber. Let it air out a day or two or whatever, it will pass. Same for rubber cement.

People still use rubber cement because it is what everyone used for a long time and way cheaper than "table tennis" glue.

For the 99.9% of people who are not pro, this VOC issue is a don't care.

Except voc can reduce the life of your sponge and rubbers. Why risk it when a set of good rubbers and glue is often running you close to €100 or more?

 

[Przemooo]

I have a few blades that I won't use until 2 years from now. Should I seal them?

I keep them in a box and in moisture-proof bags. Am I storing them correctly?

 

[Sims]

I have a few blades that I won't use until 2 years from now. Should I seal them?

I keep them in a box and in moisture-proof bags. Am I storing them correctly?

I would just seal them now, that way it's done and it will protect the wood somewhat even when there's no rubbers on it.
As long as you don't have major humidity fluctuations wherever they're stored they will be absolutely fine 👍

 

[pong99]

Except voc can reduce the life of your sponge and rubbers. Why risk it when a set of good rubbers and glue is often running you close to €100 or more?

"can reduce the life" does not mean will reduce

For the vast majority of amateurs who glue their rubbers on and leave it on for months, the small amount of VOC in rubber cement will not reduce the life of the rubber just as manufacturing rubber with VOC with much higher concentration doesn't affect the useful life of the rubber.

This is a big non issue unless you are switching rubbers between blades constantly.

If you want to use water based glue, there's no need to buy "table tennis glue". Teamender/Copydex, etc. are all purpose water glues that are 1/3 the cost of "table tennis glue".

 

[Sims]

"can reduce the life" does not mean will reduce

Exactly. So you don't know. But volatile chemicals do usually compromise the integrity of rubber and other latex products.

For the vast majority of amateurs who glue their rubbers on and leave it on for months, the small amount of VOC in rubber cement will not reduce the life of the rubber just as manufacturing rubber with VOC with much higher concentration doesn't affect the useful life of the rubber.

How do you know? You don't know what the chemicals are, what the sponge is or how they will react. You don't know that the sponge won't prematurely degrade over time. I've seen rubbers removed after VOC usage that were brittle and bits sticking to the blade that I haven't seen with water based glues and sealed blades.
I can't say either if it's definitely going to happen to any specific glue sponge combination but I'm definitely not going to advise anyone to risk it unnecessarily and potentially have to shell out €100 again sooner than they would otherwise have to

This is a big non issue unless you are switching rubbers between blades constantly.

Not constantly. Once can do it.

If you want to use water based glue, there's no need to buy "table tennis glue". Teamender/Copydex, etc. are all purpose water glues that are 1/3 the cost of "table tennis glue".

Sure. And I didn't say it had to be TT specific glue.
But he's bought TT glue already.
Should he use it or buy a jack of all trades glue instead?

You're entitled to your opinions but you're giving dubious advice.

 

[pong99]

When the VOC limit was imposed I was using rubber cement and tried out water glue. I have used both on Tenergy and other expensive rubbers and have seen no difference, so I have actual experience.

I use mostly water glue today because it is easier to spread evenly than rc, but have no problem using rc if I run out of water glue and need something glued. If I peel an edge while playing, I will re glue the edge with rc. never seen any damage.

As you can see in my post above, I advised the OP to use the Xiom glue he already bought.

"Table tennis glue" is generic water glue that is repackaged as "table tennis glue" that they charge a premium price for. There's no special special secret formula. They go to a chemical factory and get a water glue from the recipe book. Maybe they want a liquid, maybe a product in a tube. Want it a little thinner/thicker, no problem.

Anyone think that tt companies actually employ glue expert chemists and operate their own glue factory for very small volume? They purchase a product and put their name on it.

If people are willing to pay a premium for "table tennis glue", then the marketing people of the tt companies have done a good job because the profit margin is huge. If you like what you are using, be happy and keep using it. Doesn't mean that other people are giving crappy advise.

 

[Sims]

When the VOC limit was imposed I was using rubber cement and tried out water glue. I have used both on Tenergy and other expensive rubbers and have seen no difference, so I have actual experience.

Many of us have experience and probably most without any issue.
But that's not the point.
If you're going to advise someone who has never done this before and has no experience then it's better to tell them if there are any potential risks with VOC.
You know the V stands for volatile right?

As you can see in my post above, I advised the OP to use the Xiom glue he already bought.

Yes and I agreed with you.
We only diverged when I mentioned the potential damage from VOC.
That's when you dragged this is the direction of TT branded glue or Copydex etc.

"Table tennis glue" is generic water glue that is repackaged as "table tennis glue" that they charge a premium price for. There's no special special secret formula. They go to a chemical factory and get a water glue from the recipe book. Maybe they want a liquid, maybe a product in a tube. Want it a little thinner/thicker, no problem. Anyone think that tt companies actually employ glue expert chemists and operate their own glue factory for very small volume? They purchase a product and put their name on it. If people are willing to pay a premium for "table tennis glue", then the marketing people of the tt companies have done a good job because the profit margin is huge. If you like what you are using, be happy and keep using it. Doesn't mean that other people are giving crappy advise.

This is all just rambling from you in an attempt to win an argument you're only having with yourself because apparently one half of you is an expert who knows that all TT branded glue is the same....
I'll leave you to it

 

[pong99]

I gave OP advise about what non tt branded glue he could buy and why since he had already gone out and bought some school glue. This info could be useful the next time he buys glue.

(btw OP, if you bought 250 ml of glue, that's way too much glue unless you are gluing a ton of rubbers, buy a smaller size next time, the glue might go bad before you come close to using it all)

Never said all tt glue is the same, this is what I posted:

"They go to a chemical factory and get a water glue from the recipe book. Maybe they want a liquid, maybe a product in a tube. Want it a little thinner/thicker, no problem."

OPs Xiom glue follows this business model. The glue salesperson gave Xiom some samples and they picked one. Xiom did not pay to do R&D on glue.

What is called rambling is an accurate description of how the business actually works, which might benefit the OP as he has clearly just started assembling his own equipment.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Anyone think that tt companies actually employ glue expert chemists and operate their own glue factory for very small volume? They purchase a product and put their name on it.

majority of table tennis companies are just sales and marketing companies, and many of them do not manufacture any product and based on oem model.

I recall I had Gewo and Andro glue.
It was the similar sized bottle configurations (Gewo 37/90, while Andro 50/90), same glue, but just different color bottles, the bottles are exactly the same design)
One was cheaper than the other (can't remember which). well, I just settled with the cheaper (to sell in my shop)