WTT 2024 vs 2025

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2024 has
3 Smash
5 Champion
4 Star Contender
10 Contender
19 Feeder
1 Finals

Together with youth contender and star contender of 54 events
2024 has a total of 96 WTT events.

2025 schedule has shown 17 feeders and 48 youth events so far.
I'm waiting for 4 Smash, 6 Champion, 4 to 6 Star Contender, 10+ Contender to be added.
Additional feeder/youths are possible.

It may break 100 events for 2025, or maybe it won't.
Maybe one day it will be 120 events, or avg 10 events per month or it won't.

I'm always calling for more money for the players, which surely would come.
1st round qualification exit at Smash for example has a good paycheck, and having all WTT costs waived (no entry fee, accommodation or tournament transportation), it makes it more attractive.
however it is very costly for players to play feeder and youth with the winning paycheck won't even cover the lodging for example.

With the seniors, excluding OG, Continental Champs/Games, World Champs, World Cups, there are 42 WTT events.
Many players have touched or will be touching 20 WTT events for 2024. Some avg more than 2 per month.

WTT has bought tournament action to a lot of places unseen before.
USA will have a record 2025 year, with San Francisco alone hosting 5 x Youth WTT events.
This is better than 0 few years ago.

Overall, scheduling is a headache, but I was told the direction of WTT and I think it is a good direction.
Imagine your elites playing in the 4 x Smash, 6 x Champion, your OG/WTTC/WC + Continentals and maybe 1~2 Star Contender / Contender, this would mean 15~20 events a year.
This will lead your 2nd tier players playing a lot more Contender and Feeders is for the Tier 3 etc.
There is more table tennis for everyone, hopefully. and hopefully the money improves.

Ideally, I would love for more Contender for Tier 2s. And with mandatory of the 10 a year, the elite (tier 1) won't be playing in too many contenders. So, that is very important.
Things surely will be interesting.

In 2025, I will be more involved with player WTT Scheduling and that of European leagues.
I'm eager to see the full 2025 schedule.

What is your view/experience of 2024, and expectation of 2025 and beyond?
 
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As a sport I think we need to decide if we aspire to be club/league based (like football), or a pro tour based system (like tennis/ golf).
Table Tennis seems to be trying to do some strange mixture. I don’t think that can work.
The problem is you can't earn any money with Feeder events like Tony said so players need other income which comes from their club.
 
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The problem is you can't earn any money with Feeder events like Tony said so players need other income which comes from their club.
Agreed. Pros need to be able to pay for travel, coaching, physios, food, accommodation, maybe support a family and consider their future and it can’t be done on WTT feeder money.
Money or the lack of is at the root of everything. . .

So assuming a pro tour is desirable, if we have 4 smashes, there should be maybe 8 champions and 10 to 12 star contenders. There should probably also be 15-20 each of contenders and feeders. There needs to be enough money that it makes some sort of sense financially for the players that aren’t quite elite to play on the tour.
The points need sorting out so that players can’t reach the top 10 by hoovering up all of the contender events I’m sure many other valid observations could be made too. We are quite a long way off being there, but maybe some progress towards this is being made…not actually sure if having all of that would be better than a club / league structure. I did enjoy attending WTT Manchester last year, and I have enjoyed watching various WTT events from around the world on YouTube, not sure I would pay for the YouTube feed though which brings us back to the money issue!
 
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As a sport I think we need to decide if we aspire to be club/league based (like football), or a pro tour based system (like tennis/ golf).
Table Tennis seems to be trying to do some strange mixture. I don’t think that can work.
I think you raise a valid point
I always see club model as the way to go and the old ITTF circuit for a few to be busy with and then the big "majors" a year.
WTT has turn 52 weeks a year to basically (the 4 Smash, 6 Champion) near 20 weeks of majors alone.

Club table tennis however didn't take off out side of Europe.
other than 1 league in Korea and Japan, that is it.
League I feel will always have their value and WTT is trying to create a Tennis / Golf system.

maybe the 2 can combine, I'm not really sure.
But Chang Yu-An would never have game time if there isn't so many extra feeders, due to NER ruling and he is ranked too far at the back of the queue (PS, he is 12, and was highest as 7 before, and still had a queue)
 
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I think WTT also still needs to figure out how to have a live audience. 90% of Feeder events are just empty venues and a lot of Contender events struggle with that too. It does make a big difference if you have people cheering for you. The Lagos Contender crowd from last year was the most memorable for me. Lots of people cheering with no bias and just enjoying table tennis (I didn't watch it this year unfortunately).
 
Tony, my question is: where is the money coming from?

I understand that there are more events but that also mean more prize money. However the way these events are marketed and the lack of ticket sales, concern me. Where is the money coming from to pay the players?
 
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Tony, my question is: where is the money coming from?

I understand that there are more events but that also mean more prize money. However the way these events are marketed and the lack of ticket sales, concern me. Where is the money coming from to pay the players?
good question.
I don't have such information.
 
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Fan sentiments before and after WTT CS Montpellier 2024:
Before: Long live the ITTF!
After: All hail the WTT!
 
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Any info about Youth Grand Smash? WTT had previously announced Future Stars Cup as their upcoming top youth event, i assume it's a name change/replacement and they're not both planned?
 
It's all becoming a bit (too) much for me. I deliberately don't follow it (anymore) every week.
The whole WTT circus with their points system makes no sense and they should (to protect the players) revise it back.
As for the money, if betting agencies start to discover table tennis, there will automatically be a new money stream via television rights.
 
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good question.
I don't have such information.
Ask Simon Gauzy and Quadri Aruna, or Lilly Zhang and Ibrahima Diaw: there's no money ! simple as that, the players that don't have a strong association like China, Germany, Sweden or France can't catch up, the plane/hotel/coach/physio charge is not covered by the prize money.

Worse than that, if you don't have a pro club contract in Europe, you can't make a living in TT, Ibrahima is slowly but surely disapearing from WTT cos' he prefers making money with La Romagne, and I understand him 100% ! Guys like Enzo Angles or Damien Provost won't show up anymore in feeders cos' they prefer playing for pro leagues in Europe or even the MLTT, plus they can get a teacher/coach paid position in US clubs or companies like Pingpod.
 
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It's all becoming a bit (too) much for me. I deliberately don't follow it (anymore) every week.
The whole WTT circus with their points system makes no sense and they should (to protect the players) revise it back.
As for the money, if betting agencies start to discover table tennis, there will automatically be a new money stream via television rights.
I agree. Keeping up with all of WTT has become impossible. You will have to pick and choose what you gonna watch and next year will have the full calendar for the first time according to Steve Dainton.
 
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Ask Simon Gauzy and Quadri Aruna, or Lilly Zhang and Ibrahima Diaw: there's no money ! simple as that, the players that don't have a strong association like China, Germany, Sweden or France can't catch up, the plane/hotel/coach/physio charge is not covered by the prize money.

Worse than that, if you don't have a pro club contract in Europe, you can't make a living in TT, Ibrahima is slowly but surely disapearing from WTT cos' he prefers making money with La Romagne, and I understand him 100% ! Guys like Enzo Angles or Damien Provost won't show up anymore in feeders cos' they prefer playing for pro leagues in Europe or even the MLTT, plus they can get a teacher/coach paid position in US clubs or companies like Pingpod.
OTOH Enzo , and more so Damien are well past their prime.
BTW Enzo is creating a lot of popular coaching content on YT / TG / IG / mailing-list and is organizing TT camps in France
 
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It's all becoming a bit (too) much for me. I deliberately don't follow it (anymore) every week.
The whole WTT circus with their points system makes no sense and they should (to protect the players) revise it back.
As for the money, if betting agencies start to discover table tennis, there will automatically be a new money stream via television rights.
To be fair, the current system is a logical extension of the WR reform that first came into effect in 1/2018, which was based on requests made by some players to the Athletes' Commission, which consisted of current and former players at the time.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...-in-world-ranking-regulations-in-2018#1454097
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...-in-world-ranking-regulations-in-2018#1454102
 
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To be fair, the current system is a logical extension of the WR reform that first came into effect in 1/2018, which was based on requests made by some players to the Athletes' Commission, which consisted of current and former players at the time.

http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...-in-world-ranking-regulations-in-2018#1454097
http://mytabletennis.net/forum/foru...-in-world-ranking-regulations-in-2018#1454102
imo both point system has their own pros and cons.
the problem is 20+ events a year.
i feel 15 should be the cap, for players health.

mind you, CNT played the less and the head coach is saying they are tired...
just imagine those playing (and traveling) way more, some of it is near double of that of CNT players
 
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I think you raise a valid point
I always see club model as the way to go and the old ITTF circuit for a few to be busy with and then the big "majors" a year.

Club table tennis however didn't take off out side of Europe other than 1 league in Korea and Japan, that is it.
League I feel will always have their value and WTT is trying to create a Tennis / Golf system.

maybe the 2 can combine, I'm not really sure.
This is what I was thinking after considering Achys points in post 2. It is a bit of both and 'can' the 2 be organised to compliment each other is the current question, unless we consider a complete change of direction.
Comparing to outdoor sports like Tennis and golf is a bit apples to Oranges, TT will always be limited by venue size.
Tennis and Golf exist in our culture as elitest sports where membership at clubs the world over is a coveted badge and display of status and so these sports have their Heroes who earn MILLIONS just for hitting balls, and there are millions of wealthy people the world over buying the clothes, buying the equipment and spending thousands to travel and watch these events. It's a different animal.

Table Tennis will never have this status so money will always be an issue compared to these teo.
It's more comparable to Darts or Snooker, existing in the sub-culture, and to that measure TT is doing a good job recently of bigging up the entertainment and has really turned these events into something different than before.

Growth though has to start in schools because kids are not going to see the game on TV or have it marketed to them via some 'hero worship' avenue. You gotta brainwash the kids through fun rather than propaganda and status but it's probably never gonna be 'cool' and will always lose players as quickly as it gets them.
I think school leagues, district leagues and the social community elements are (rather unfashionably in this modern world) it's best route to any form of growth and success and it has to catch fire in the UK or the US (large cultural exporters) for it to have a chance on TV like Darts and Snooker do.
It's a long long game to successfully grow it from here and I would doubt that those heading the key organisations have the foresight nor will governments give the funds to schools or communities that are constantly competing with other sports anyway. Just take Ireland alone, Gaelic Football and Hurling are the biggest sports in the country and nobody outside of Ireland even knows what they are! And that's before you list Football, Rugby Golf, Tennis, Snooker, Swimming etc.
So leagues in smaller countries seem decades away rather than years😕 although I would wish to be wrong!!
It is currently at a good size globally though, even just consolidating and maintaining this while streaming the events (smashes, majors etc) for the next ten yrs would be a good success.
Some sports just don't have the capacity for big money across a large playing base to large audiences.
So keep buying more rubbers, blades and balls than you need because the games success depends on YOU and I funding the sponsorship from the large TT companies!!!
 
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