WTT problems from players

says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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The prize money is from the sponsors, and I assume the host countries would pay for a lot of fees. What financial crisis can WTT go through? Big fat salaries for the officers?
WTT handles the prize money. In the prospectus of past events, it reads "Funded & paid by WTT" under "Prize Money". One of the reasons for late prize money could be interests.

https://worldtabletennis.com/hostevent
Starting from page 19, https://wttwebcmsprod.blob.core.windows.net/sitedocs/hostevent/WTT 2023 HOSTING DOCUMENT.pdf
WTT will pay and manage all prize money at
events.
 
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I like Aruna, I understand he has more than a point here. I also see how WTT is doing wrong. But...

Aruna didn't handle the thing correctly. You know you're late at sending the certificate, just go to the tournament, s**t on top of the umpire table while streaming, show the medical certificate, then accuse WTT publicly because they forced a sick player to play. This also clears out any possible doubt you had diarrhea. That's how things are done right, these are behaviors that really hit reputation and trigger media and social s**tstorm.

Instead, the way he's doing looks like someone that doesn't want to participate, late at sending the certificate and now trying to blame WTT mentioning racism. Is there any proof of racist conduct? I mean, he should be showing that proof like he did with the medical certificate. I really don't like such a racist victim complex made up on purpose to support his poor blame. Show the proof first then accuse.

Also, if he doesn't like WTT rules, he shouldn't have signed for WTT. Stay out of that c**p if you don't like it. They are disorganized and have wrong rules, they don't pay in time. Why would you sign with them and your team at the same time, knowing in advance you cannot honor your contracts?
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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Before Incheon, what exactly happened in Busan?

Event Supervisor for WTTC 2024: Karl JINDRAK
Event Supervisor for WTT CS Incheon 2024: ?

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/upl...Tennis-World-Ranking-Regulations-20240304.pdf
4.2. Penalties are proposed by the ITTF World Ranking Manager and approved by the ITTF World Ranking Working Group based on the report filed by the ITTF Competition Manager or the WTT Event Supervisor on-site, evaluating any additional medical reports or proof provided by the involved players and/or their respective Member Associations. The decision shall be made interpreting the regulation if needed, applying fairness and equality principles.

Prospectus for WTTC 2024
https://consuteme.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/FINAL_WTTC_Prospectus_13_Nov.pdf
 
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I like Aruna, I understand he has more than a point here. I also see how WTT is doing wrong. But...

Aruna didn't handle the thing correctly. You know you're late at sending the certificate, just go to the tournament, s**t on top of the umpire table while streaming, show the medical certificate, then accuse WTT publicly because they forced a sick player to play. This also clears out any possible doubt you had diarrhea. That's how things are done right, these are behaviors that really hit reputation and trigger media and social s**tstorm.

Instead, the way he's doing looks like someone that doesn't want to participate, late at sending the certificate and now trying to blame WTT mentioning racism. Is there any proof of racist conduct? I mean, he should be showing that proof like he did with the medical certificate. I really don't like such a racist victim complex made up on purpose to support his poor blame. Show the proof first then accuse.

Also, if he doesn't like WTT rules, he shouldn't have signed for WTT. Stay out of that c**p if you don't like it. They are disorganized and have wrong rules, they don't pay in time. Why would you sign with them and your team at the same time, knowing in advance you cannot honor your contracts?
So the thing is that WTT apparently forces players to play events, even if they did not sign up to the event. And it forbids them to play their own event at the time of a WTT event.

How accurate this is I don't know. So to find out, I went through the rulebook with a magnifying glass to see what is in there. I didn't need to look far to find some pretty damning stuff. The quotes are straight from the current (December 3rd 2023) rulebook as active today (April 3rd 2024). Emphasis in these quotes is mine.

1. PLAYING FORMAT
1.1 WTT Series
1.1.1 WTT Grand Smash

a. Men’s and Women’s Singles:
Main Draw - Knock out of 64. • Top 50 players (Automatic Entry) based on the ITTF TTWR for singles events at the entry deadline.
Yep, WTT decided who gets entered. It's not just the top 50 players. Added to these 50 are 8 from qualifiers, and those qualifiers also have 58 mandatory spots. So that's already 108 players who have to mandatorily show up to an event they did not sign up for.

Exactly the same logic and language is used for the other formats (WTT Finals, WTT Star Contender, WTT Feeder Series), just with a different total number of players. Just to be clear that it is mandatory:

III SPORT SPECIFIC REGULATIONS
2.4 Entry Deadline

The players and pairs who participate in the WTT Finals will be selected based on the respective ITTF TTWR list published after the end of the last event before the WTT Finals or where WTT determines the need to implement a cut-off date due to extenuating circumstances. The participation of players is mandatory.

But surely you can just decline, no? NO.

4. PLAYER CODE OF CONDUCT
4.1 Entry/Withdrawal Offences
4.1.1 Withdrawal - Singles:
a) For all Main Draw automatic entries, awardedHostWildcards, awarded WTT Nominations and/or Youth Nominations, a withdrawal fine, specified in clause 4.1.1 (d) will be applied unless the player is on maternity providing the necessary documentation or the player provides signed certificate that he/she is retired from any International competition or a medical certificate is submitted and approved by WTT, and the player does not compete in other non WTT events during the period of the entered event.

This is the big one. I read it again and again. It really says that even when you are on maternity leave, or sick, it is you, the player, who has to provide documentation, in time, or get fined. If you are seeded for 10 events during that time, you must do this 10 times, or get fined 10 times. The fines are between $5000 and $250, depending on your rank. For certain lower-tier events, players can get two free withdrawals a year, but that's it.

Also, you, the player, are not allowed to compete in your own matches. Aruna is not overreacting. Players are taken hostage by WTT.

The condition of entry is that players have signed a ITTF Participation Form. So there's no Opt-out from WTT without completely opting out from the ITTF.

So let's say you do in fact cancel for medical reasons, what then? Well:

4. PLAYER CODE OF CONDUCT
4.1 Entry/Withdrawal Offences
4.1.8 Playing Another Event

a) A player is not allowed to compete in any table tennis event, club match or exhibition
in the same event week from which they have withdrawn, cancelled or forfeit via walk-over. In the event a player fails to adhere to this rule, the player will be fined USD $2,500. b) A player is not allowed to compete in any non WTT table tennis event, club match or exhibition in the following event week from which they have withdrawn, cancelled or forfeit via walk-over. In the event a player fails to adhere to this rule, that player will be fined USD $1,500. c) For WTT Feeder Events the fines in clauses (a) & (b) are applied at 50%.
So if you withdraw from an event, but play something completely unrelated next week (like your local grandpa/grandma baking table tennis match), you will still be fined $1500.

And don't think the fine is the end of it:
V EVENT & PLAYER CODE OF CONDUCT
1.10 Player Responsibilities

Upon Withdrawal or Retirement
Upon a player’s withdrawal or retirement from an Event, they are required to submit the medical withdrawal form containing the reason for the withdrawal or retirement and a suitable quotation that the WTT may release to the media and public. Upon a player or pair's on-site withdrawal, if requested by WTT, they are required to participate in one (1) post-withdrawal PR & Marketing activity prior to leaving the Event city with the activity as determined by WTT.

You could be dying, but even then WTT holds the rights for you to participate in a PR stunt. The way it is written, your doctors medical statement stands below the demands of the WTT of you.

I'm sure there's more in the rules but this is enough for me.
 
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Before Incheon, what exactly happened in Busan?

Event Supervisor for WTTC 2024: Karl JINDRAK
Event Supervisor for WTT CS Incheon 2024: ?

https://www.ittf.com/wp-content/upl...Tennis-World-Ranking-Regulations-20240304.pdf


Prospectus for WTTC 2024
https://consuteme.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/FINAL_WTTC_Prospectus_13_Nov.pdf
WTT Chongqing dates changed, unilaterally and without player discussion probably based on their track record:
 

RGo

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But these issues run deep, because it goes down to national level as well (at least in europe).
You cant watch prolevel tabletennis for free anymore here. They tried to go down the twitch route for example for around a year foe the TTBL but ended up as sellout for DYN for which you have to pay again to watch table tennis.
Sorry but this is beyond retarded on many levels.
I understand that this is frustrating but I'd like to correct a thing or two and then also offer an explanation for why this model is better for some actors in the space.

Firstly, they didn't try to go down the "twitch-route" they only used it until the dyn platform was ready, as the one broadcasting the matches on twitch was the dyn production company, so, at that point, it was already sold out. This was always going to be temporary but it was horrendously communicated because they waited to go public with the dyn thing until it was all set up.

Now, why sell out to dyn? Well, it's certainly worse for the general viewership but it simply makes more money and the ttbl, the teams, and the players certainly benefit from that, after all, there ain't all that much money in the sport, to begin with, so any influx is beneficial. There is always a cost-benefit analysis to be had here on both sides, and sadly the free model doesn't make all that much money compared to the associated costs.
 
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I think table tennis is ripe for an external takeover.

What would stop a powerful country/organisation setting up a super league where they pay the players directly?

I could see someone like the Saudis doing it.
Woaw hope that never happens. Look at Football and champions league. Uefa has all but killed the sport. I completely lost interest the last few years it’s just a money circus…

Cheers
L-zr
 
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
says Shoo...nothing to see here. - zeio
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WTT Chongqing dates changed, unilaterally and without player discussion probably based on their track record:
This change is actually a good one. Many players will likely opt for Rio instead of Taiyuan and it takes over 24 hours to fly from South America to East Asia.

20-26 May: WTT Contender Taiyuan 2024 (CHN)
20-26 May: WTT Contender Rio de Janeiro 2024 (BRA)
27-2 May: WTT Champions Chongqing 2024 (CHN)
30-3 May: WTT Champions Chongqing 2024 (CHN)
 

RGo

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Woaw hope that never happens. Look at Football and champions league. Uefa has all but killed the sport. I completely lost interest the last few years it’s just a money circus…

Cheers
L-zr
Also, this is already happening. Look at how many (big) WTT tournaments are happening in oil countries, even though there are never any crowds at these tournaments, so I'm not sure why we'd we want more of that.
 
Also, this is already happening. Look at how many (big) WTT tournaments are happening in oil countries, even though there are never any crowds at these tournaments, so I'm not sure why we'd we want more of that.
I know, sports has been turned into a laundry mat for dirty money…

Cheers
L-zr
 
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Woaw hope that never happens. Look at Football and champions league. Uefa has all but killed the sport. I completely lost interest the last few years it’s just a money circus…

Cheers
L-zr
Saudis are taking over loads of sports, boxing, golf etc, and they have deep enough pockets to keep the top players happy.
 
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I like Aruna, I understand he has more than a point here. I also see how WTT is doing wrong. But...

Aruna didn't handle the thing correctly. You know you're late at sending the certificate, just go to the tournament, s**t on top of the umpire table while streaming, show the medical certificate, then accuse WTT publicly because they forced a sick player to play. This also clears out any possible doubt you had diarrhea. That's how things are done right, these are behaviors that really hit reputation and trigger media and social s**tstorm.

Instead, the way he's doing looks like someone that doesn't want to participate, late at sending the certificate and now trying to blame WTT mentioning racism. Is there any proof of racist conduct? I mean, he should be showing that proof like he did with the medical certificate. I really don't like such a racist victim complex made up on purpose to support his poor blame. Show the proof first then accuse.

Also, if he doesn't like WTT rules, he shouldn't have signed for WTT. Stay out of that c**p if you don't like it. They are disorganized and have wrong rules, they don't pay in time. Why would you sign with them and your team at the same time, knowing in advance you cannot honor your contracts?
Meanwhile, Simon Gauzy also thinks Quadri Aruna is 100% right after all.
 
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So the thing is that WTT apparently forces players to play events, even if they did not sign up to the event. And it forbids them to play their own event at the time of a WTT event.

How accurate this is I don't know. So to find out, I went through the rulebook with a magnifying glass to see what is in there. I didn't need to look far to find some pretty damning stuff. The quotes are straight from the current (December 3rd 2023) rulebook as active today (April 3rd 2024). Emphasis in these quotes is mine.


Yep, WTT decided who gets entered. It's not just the top 50 players. Added to these 50 are 8 from qualifiers, and those qualifiers also have 58 mandatory spots. So that's already 108 players who have to mandatorily show up to an event they did not sign up for.

Exactly the same logic and language is used for the other formats (WTT Finals, WTT Star Contender, WTT Feeder Series), just with a different total number of players. Just to be clear that it is mandatory:



But surely you can just decline, no? NO.



This is the big one. I read it again and again. It really says that even when you are on maternity leave, or sick, it is you, the player, who has to provide documentation, in time, or get fined. If you are seeded for 10 events during that time, you must do this 10 times, or get fined 10 times. The fines are between $5000 and $250, depending on your rank. For certain lower-tier events, players can get two free withdrawals a year, but that's it.

Also, you, the player, are not allowed to compete in your own matches. Aruna is not overreacting. Players are taken hostage by WTT.

The condition of entry is that players have signed a ITTF Participation Form. So there's no Opt-out from WTT without completely opting out from the ITTF.

So let's say you do in fact cancel for medical reasons, what then? Well:


So if you withdraw from an event, but play something completely unrelated next week (like your local grandpa/grandma baking table tennis match), you will still be fined $1500.

And don't think the fine is the end of it:


You could be dying, but even then WTT holds the rights for you to participate in a PR stunt. The way it is written, your doctors medical statement stands below the demands of the WTT of you.

I'm sure there's more in the rules but this is enough for me.
I didn't want to talk too much about it
thank you for doing the work for me.

It is easy for naive people to talk about aruna in a bad light, but these problems has been going on for 2 to 3 years now.
It is only a matter about time, someone will explode.

Granny Ni talked about her being ill and the WTT doctors didnt accept her condition as "unfit to play".
so, she was forced to play and she played and kindof threw the match so she can get off the table.
It really does come down to rights of athletes, which is why I stated they need legal experts involved.

Talk about fairness to an elder lady who is ill...
What is happening is basically you are guilty and need to prove yourself innocent within deadlines.

Maybe you do need someone to collapse during live broadcast for fixes to happen.
This is really 3rd world mentality and happening on the biggest stage of TT
 
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Also, if he doesn't like WTT rules, he shouldn't have signed for WTT. Stay out of that c**p if you don't like it. They are disorganized and have wrong rules, they don't pay in time. Why would you sign with them and your team at the same time, knowing in advance you cannot honor your contracts?
I didn't address the others, since it has been talked about already.

however, did you know when Aruna signed for 2024 season, WTT calendar has been pretty empty?
There was no WTT Champion Incheon.
Sounds like victim blaming.

Its not Aruna only hey.... so should pros only sign 1 contract and not domestic and international together? that itself is another problem and encouraging it is actually crazy.

In fact, what Aruna is doing is good.
you need super stars to fight what is not good. If more super stars voiced they unhappiness (of which many have already shown support to Aruna). CNT players are the super super stars here, and they will never bad mouth WTT. So lets see how Aruna effect can travel.
 
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Champions League semi-finals and finals happened right after Incheon and a lot of the participating players were in Incheon. Obviously the teams complained because the finals date was slated for a while, but WTT didn't budge. WTT sure seems like a tyrant.
 
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I would love to see a contract lawyer taking this to a court. It is certainly a contract with clear disadvantages to one side and there is no option for a PRO to avoid WTT/ITTF. Therefore I question that this would hold, if brought to a civil court.
 
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I understand that this is frustrating but I'd like to correct a thing or two and then also offer an explanation for why this model is better for some actors in the space.

Firstly, they didn't try to go down the "twitch-route" they only used it until the dyn platform was ready, as the one broadcasting the matches on twitch was the dyn production company, so, at that point, it was already sold out. This was always going to be temporary but it was horrendously communicated because they waited to go public with the dyn thing until it was all set up.

Now, why sell out to dyn? Well, it's certainly worse for the general viewership but it simply makes more money and the ttbl, the teams, and the players certainly benefit from that, after all, there ain't all that much money in the sport, to begin with, so any influx is beneficial. There is always a cost-benefit analysis to be had here on both sides, and sadly the free model doesn't make all that much money compared to the associated costs.

Yeah and that makes it even worse imo.

So DYN is the shortterm solution because you give an abo-company the "rights" ti broadcast your sport and name.

In the longterm they damaged the viewerbase tremendously. I just checked tt gave dyn 2,5k abos which is less what a single spontent channel for TT had and way less what they had as follower. I dont even wanna know the viewercount.

Dyn is new and wont grow like this and im quite sure that ttbl and ger tt in general is on a dead plattform again.

As ive said that is shortterm solution and nothing a sport needs. What it needs are longterm solutions to a problems that let our sport die the way it is. At least that is the situation in germany.
 
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