Yay! I am a looper now, so what next?

[Gozo Aruna]

Once upon a time, comment about Gozo from TTD forum members:
1. Gozo you have no spin!
2. Gozo, you only flat hit ball, no spin! TT is all about spin!
3. Gozo, go learn to spin the ball!

With those comment in mind, I learned how to be a looper. I paid good money to some local coach to learn how to loop. I look up to Aruna Q. as my idol, as my go-to role model to be a looper.

Now I am looping the ball. Happy me right? No, not quiet. The story does not end here.

4. Each time I loop to open up, some wise guy will either block back fast to two wings, making life difficult for lil'poor Gozo.
5. Or some wise guy will quick drive back to me and I suffer deer in the headlight syndrome.
6. It appears to me, looping ball, those that come with a curve, are more easily blocked compared to a straight smash, that is to say, ball that travel in a straight line.
7. So, now I am asking, why bother with looping. Why is looping so hyped in the first place.
8. Or am I doing something wrong?

 

[mightymouse]

I assume that you are talking about slow heavy loop ("that come with a curve"). In the 38 mm ball era, it was not easy to smash those loops given the heavy spin. Now, with the 40+ mm plastic ball, it is much easier to just whack those slow heavy loops.

How do I know? I am the one who likes to smash those balls like they are nothing!!!

If you see the current (modern) play, people just like to mix spin with speed (a balance between speed vs spin, because they are inversely related). So, spin is important but speed is important as well (or probably more important nowadays).

 

[staysmart]

How do you flat hit a longer backspin opening serve? Or a long ball that goes down under the table level? What is your % of good flat spin hits against a looped ball, compared to counter-looping?

 

[Jan_]

Here's the thing, in order for a loop to be effective you need to actually put spin on it. If people are just bullying your topspin then I'm guessing you're not putting any rotation.

A spinny open up will give you the opportunity to keep playing topspins, if you can't take advantage of it then train more.

When the topspin is spinny then the opponent will have trouble returning it, it won't be super accurate, and if it's also low then the block will be slower and higher. You need to be on top of the point to take advantage of that.

If your topspin is curvy, high and spinless then you're just asking for a counter, keep the ball low to the net and put as much rotation as possible. Speed doesn't matter nearly as much as maximum rotation.

 

[Lazer]

Aim a slow spinny loop to their backhand. The further out the better. FH is too easy to just smash or drive it very fast. I try to open to BH most of the time. But it is not 100% predictable, sometimes the ball ends up where it ends up. Practice makes perfect, dont quit the looping its another weapon in the arsenal.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Here's the thing, in order for a loop to be effective you need to actually put spin on it. If people are just bullying your topspin then I'm guessing you're not putting any rotation.

A spinny open up will give you the opportunity to keep playing topspins, if you can't take advantage of it then train more.

When the topspin is spinny then the opponent will have trouble returning it, it won't be super accurate, and if it's also low then the block will be slower and higher. You need to be on top of the point to take advantage of that.

If your topspin is curvy, high and spinless then you're just asking for a counter, keep the ball low to the net and put as much rotation as possible. Speed doesn't matter nearly as much as maximum rotation.

OK, I will take this to heart my good sir!

Looping: It is something that I am starting to get into it not too long ago. I faced these issues as mentioned in post Nos. 1 and they are something new to me, Thank you for your pointers.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Aim a slow spinny loop to their backhand. The further out the better. FH is too easy to just smash or drive it very fast. I try to open to BH most of the time. But it is not 100% predictable, sometimes the ball ends up where it ends up. Practice makes perfect, dont quit the looping its another weapon in the arsenal.

Cheers
L-zr

Nope, those wise guys can block it at the BH & counter-drive it on their FH. The only space I can get some wins are at the cross-over point but even so it is still a 50-50 gamble for me.

 

[Jan_]

OK, I will take this to heart my good sir!

Looping: It is something that I am starting to get into it not too long ago. I faced these issues as mentioned in post Nos. 1 and they are something new to me, Thank you for your pointers.

Keep them low, close to the base line and put as much rotation as possible, forearm and wrist snap. Also rotation of the hips, explosive legs and twisting your torso. All of these have to be done together.

Best of luck🍀

 

[Lazer]

Nope, those wise guys can block it at the BH & counter-drive it on their FH. The only space I can get some wins are at the cross-over point but even so it is still a 50-50 gamble for me.

Dont expect to win on the loop, its a setup for offensive play and the return from BH is a lot more benign than from FH.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Sims]

Once upon a time, comment about Gozo from TTD forum members:
1. Gozo you have no spin!
2. Gozo, you only flat hit ball, no spin! TT is all about spin!
3. Gozo, go learn to spin the ball!

With those comment in mind, I learned how to be a looper. I paid good money to some local coach to learn how to loop. I look up to Aruna Q. as my idol, as my go-to role model to be a looper.

Now I am looping the ball. Happy me right? No, not quiet. The story does not end here.

4. Each time I loop to open up, some wise guy will either block back fast to two wings, making life difficult for lil'poor Gozo.
5. Or some wise guy will quick drive back to me and I suffer deer in the headlight syndrome.
6. It appears to me, looping ball, those that come with a curve, are more easily blocked compared to a straight smash, that is to say, ball that travel in a straight line.
7. So, now I am asking, why bother with looping. Why is looping so hyped in the first place.
8. Or am I doing something wrong?

Well almost any ball can be looped (unless it's really short of course) so the loop is there to, among other things, open up the attacking rally.
You can't flat hit low, loaded pushes for example.
So now you're looping, you need to perfect your loop tactics, where to loop and when.
Slow spinny loops that land short are easily despatched by better players but getting them to land deeper on the table and in corners that force your opponent to move is a more awkward proposition. It presents more challenge to footwork and timing as well as reducing the attacking angle for the opponent.
Then there's the regular (medium) loop of course. Try putting sidespin and better angles on them to make things more difficult for your opponent. If not outright winning the point then, again, better placement can help you to control it.
And finally the loop kill. If you really get that FH whip effect into full flow (not an easy thing!) then your loops are faster and more powerful and not as easy to deal with.
I think these are some things to work on next.
They are also the things that I am trying to improve on. I learned that improving my level only makes point as shorter against worse players but as I love up the levels, even with my 'better' shots, points can be longer and longer the better your opponent is. So where I put those shots is crucial to force mistakes from him BEFORE I make one!!
Avoiding strike zones is an absolute must I would say, so it's higher risk to find angles and corners but he who dares, right!? 😊

 

[Amayzde]

Increase the quality of your loops with more spin. especially the opening loop should be slow and spinny for 3 reasons:
1. Higher safety factor for the looper.
2. Most people struggle with blocking slow spinny balls, because it doesn't come to practice often.
3. You have more time to recover and finish the next ball instead.

Most people that are new to looping or struggle with looping against pushers, loop somewhere in between (half spinny and half speedy). This causes them to get countered easily by their opponents and makes the looping feel unrewarding. They also tend to play it right into the opponents forehand or backhand, which makes it even easier for your opponent to counter your loops.

Let me tell you something I don't see many people talk about.

Looping is an intentional action. Transitioning from not being able to loop at al, into trying to get some loops in your game can feel unrewarding at times, because it's still lacking the proper quality (not trying to demote you here, but you need time and practice to gradually increase the quality). Especially if you are playing against these players that play unintentional (a.k.a. dodgy) players. These players don't follow the script(!).

I'll give you an anecdote of when I just started learning on how to properly serve. I was super proud of that I could do a ghost serve. Its pretty much all I did in matches. Then I played against a player that I would consider lower level (more unintentional). The serve wouldn't work. He just flicked my serve with quite a closed racket angle, like it was nothing. And all I was just thinking to myself: "Its backspin you dummy! You are not supposed to flick it like that!". Like I said, these players don't follow the script. Where the better (intentional) players would push the serve back, being affraid of the backspin would bite into their rubber and drop in the net, the unintentional player doesn't know what heavy backspin is. He just hits it and it either goes on, or it doesnt go on.

If you try to play an intentional game against an unintantional opponent, that doesn't know what REAL spin is, and your balls lack the quality (mostly spin), He will just recklessly slap these balls and actually make them go onto the table, probably 7 out of 10 times. And like I said, trying to play intentional can feel unrewarding in these situations. If you play with enough quality (so give them some real spin), they will maybe hit 1 out of 20, and their unintentional actions will start to get punished instead of rewarded.

 

[z0uLess]

I have the same problem. Speed often wins because my spin does not have enough quality ... but for it to get enough quality, I have to practice it in a match setting, but then I lose.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I know I know, I am a loppy nooby. I thank all of thee for thy pointers. I forsee myself walking down this path, that is, Mister looper, Aruna is my idol.

 

[Brs]

All the 'more spin' answers are not wrong, but they are wrong.

Here are reasons ...
To make heavy enough spin with the new ball that can't be smashed on table will take you much training.
Even crappy players can adapt to heavy spin if they see it from you enough.
Also, pimples.

I am going to make a crazy guess and say that your loops, if nobody touched, would exit off the end line of the table.

You are happy, you make loop, you go right into opponents position, he has prepared block/smash. You lose this pattern.

Loop softly off the sidelines of the table. See can he smash if he has to move to do it? Only wild guess again, but I'm thinking not.

If he can, clap hands, he is better than you.

Don't try to power through people. You will make more errors than them. Move them, set up easy winning patterns for yourself. Stay within your limits and play nice rallies. Win many matches.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

whats next?
Fly to Taiwan

 

[Overseer Kevin]

What's next? Run

Flat hits have limits. The farther from the table you get the less flat hits work.

 

[TableTennisTom]

6. It appears to me, looping ball, those that come with a curve, are more easily blocked compared to a straight smash, that is to say, ball that travel in a straight line.
7. So, now I am asking, why bother with looping. Why is looping so hyped in the first place.

Points 6 and 7 will be the hardest for you to overcome. Over the years I have coached many players who like to flat hit and hit hard. These are by far the most challenging players for me to coach. They wish to improve, but they find it very hard to change the habit of flat hitting. Why? Because if they hit the ball hard and flat - and it lands on the table - it doesn't come back very often. It's a very easy way, and satisfying way, of winning a point.

But there will always be a limitation. If the ball is too low or if there is too much backspin, doing a big flat hit becomes much harder. The margin for error is very small.

So in my coaching sessions, I will encourage a flat hitter to topspin instead. It's easy enough to do and almost all players are able to do so. But it doesn't answer the question - why bother? In the mind of a flat hitter, what's the point of having to hit 2, 3 or 4 topspins, when they could finish the point with one flat hit?

To change this mindset is incredibly challenging. So you have a couple of options. If you travel down the topspin route, then you have to develop the skill of being able to hit 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7+ topspins in a row. You will undoubtedly end up a better player, but it will take time and a lot of training.

Alternatively, you build your game around your flat hit. You do serves which set up a flat hit. You develop tactics which force your opponent to pop the ball up, and then flat hit. At the amateur level, there are very good players who play a flatter game. It is possible.

Ultimately it comes down to what you find most satisfying. If you get enormous pleasure from flat hitting, it will be hard habit to change.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

There are several good posts. But one thing is, your post needs footage of you playing with spin on loops, on pushes, on serves. Spin isn't just for looping. At one point your serves were all flat, your pushes were all flat, your "offensive" shots all had almost no spin. Show footage that demonstrates the level of spin you are putting on your serves, your pushes, your opening loops, your loops vs offensive shots. Table Tennis is not just one shot at a time.

Also, if you get a ball that is 8 inches higher than the net or higher, I am not sure anyone would say, "only hit a slow spinny loop, don't do what ever you need to so you can put it away." Those balls should be slapped into oblivion.

But if you want to get better at TT, you need to be able to do a lot of things, and a lot of things with spin. And one of them is loop with power (speed and spin). But you also need to BE ABLE TO READ SPIN. And if you haven't learned to spin the ball on any of your shots, and all you know how to do is hit the ball with almost zero spin, and you are just learning, then chances are, you will not be good at reading the spin on the incoming ball.

Anyway: here:

Is there one shot in there without a decent amount of spin, even when they are caught out of position?

But here: for you: @Matt Hetherington will hate me for posting this video yet again. hahahaha [side note: I love Matt's Slap Diary video]:

Note how Matt spins the ball when he should and slaps the hell out of the ball when it makes sense. But he also uses a ton of spin on backspin shots (pushes and serves) as well. There are some dynamics to what Matt is doing. Another side note: Matt also puts a lot of spin on some of those SlapShots.

But when you can end the point with a brutal slap, slap all you want. Get slap happy if you also know how to spin the ball and read the incoming spin on the ball.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

whats next?
Fly to Taiwan

I have seen the videos of your training center. No way Jose! They are like gulags / sweat shops for delinquents.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

I have seen the videos of your training center. No way Jose! They are like gulags / sweat shops for delinquents.

be a man.... do the right thing