Should I stop using H3N?

[goatdolphin]

Context: Penhold player, started playing in a club in February . Used PF4 on a ALL 5ply for 2-3 months. Thought it was too dead so I switched to H3N on fh and H8-8 on bh on a OFF 5ply blade. I don’t think these rubbers are bad but maybe a 40H 2.15 H3N wasn’t an appropriate choice for my level (specially without booster).



This is the current set up I’ve been playing since April. I’ve improved a lot since then, my serves are loaded with spin and my short game is very good. At first I thought my main problem was the speed, I thought i needed a faster blade or booster because my attack weren’t as fast compared to other rackets people in my club used. With time I learned to accelerate more and use my body, but I still felt the speed wasn’t enough. Also, in most my matches in league I wasn’t really confident attacking balls so I just won the matches with deceptive spins and short game.



A few weeks ago some guy from another club came to train with us, he plays national league and he is way better than me. He saw my racket and thought it was too fast for me, I disagreed so he insisted on attacking with my racket while I blocked. I was absolutely blow away with the speed and spin this guy was getting with my racket, I wasn’t able to block 3 balls in a row. Mind you, this guy is an average 50yr old, he isnt like a super muscular young guy, but he was getting way more speed than me. He told me I should get softer rubbers, and while I searched for new rubbers I should put my current rubbers in my old ALL blade. My racket feels now more controllable but I think I lack the technique to actually get good speed consistently in a 40H sponge.



So what I did is got 2 Mercury II (soft and medium) and a ALL+ blade to see how it goes. Haven’t tried it yet buy I guess my game will slow down, but I can focus more on technique and positioning.



Any tips? Is it the right choice or should I keep using H3N but with a softer sponge?

 

[joshmak10]

Stick to Hurricane and just boost it and you will experience magic

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

Stick to Hurricane and just boost it and you will experience magic

+1 with this. The only thing he showed you is what you can achieve with experience and good technique. You have a few options here:
1) Try out the Mercury 2 and see how you feel with it
2) Go back to H3 but go for 39 or 37 and boost them
3) You could try out Rakza Z or Dignics 09C since they're supposed to be similar to a Boosted Hurricane 3 Blue Sponge

 

[mamedium]

3) You could try out Rakza Z or Dignics 09C since they're supposed to be similar to a Boosted Hurricane 3 Blue Sponge

no they are not

 

[goatdolphin]

Stick to Hurricane and just boost it and you will experience magic

yeah im just lazy to boost them every 3-4 weeks. maybe i could get a haifu seamoon since its cheap and try

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Don't listen to all those Booster-Bros aka Asianphillic crowd.
Be a nice Europlayer and just use ESN.

ESN: make ball go fast-fast, no additive required.

Spoiler: ESN

Slap it on, play immediately! No additive required(tm)

 

[banbekas]

You are wasting your time with H3. Even if you boost it, it's very likely you are still not good enough to tap to its supposedly full potential. In fact, if you look at the Spinsight thread it's very telling that spin level largely depends on level instead of equipment.

Honestly, get softer rubbers to help with your match and improve consistency.

 

[longle]

H3N 40 is probably not suitable for you at the moment. I was struggling with it some years ago, but I found the solution, maybe you can try to follow: I switched to H3N 39, it was like a hybrid, very easy to play. After 1 year when I used to the hardness, I upgraded to H3N 41 and can play comfortable with it. Now I even play 42 degrees.

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

i'm not exactly sure what he proved by using your racket and sending strong balls you couldn't block (even if the racket you were using wasn't new to you, it would still be hard to block balls from much stronger player who is trying to make a point). i do know that in Spain there is a strong belief that an ALL-round 5-ply wood blade can be used forever by many people.

you got a new racket so try it out and see how it feels. if you aren't into boosting. maybe H3 isnt the right choice but you can find something suitable. here's a whole thread dedicated to Chinese rubbers that don't need to be boosted: https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...sticky-rubbers-that-dont-need-boosting.38053/

 

[zeio]

Context: Penhold player, started playing in a club in February . Used PF4 on a ALL 5ply for 2-3 months. Thought it was too dead so I switched to H3N on fh and H8-8 on bh on a OFF 5ply blade. I don’t think these rubbers are bad but maybe a 40H 2.15 H3N wasn’t an appropriate choice for my level (specially without booster).



This is the current set up I’ve been playing since April. I’ve improved a lot since then, my serves are loaded with spin and my short game is very good. At first I thought my main problem was the speed, I thought i needed a faster blade or booster because my attack weren’t as fast compared to other rackets people in my club used. With time I learned to accelerate more and use my body, but I still felt the speed wasn’t enough. Also, in most my matches in league I wasn’t really confident attacking balls so I just won the matches with deceptive spins and short game.



A few weeks ago some guy from another club came to train with us, he plays national league and he is way better than me. He saw my racket and thought it was too fast for me, I disagreed so he insisted on attacking with my racket while I blocked. I was absolutely blow away with the speed and spin this guy was getting with my racket, I wasn’t able to block 3 balls in a row. Mind you, this guy is an average 50yr old, he isnt like a super muscular young guy, but he was getting way more speed than me. He told me I should get softer rubbers, and while I searched for new rubbers I should put my current rubbers in my old ALL blade. My racket feels now more controllable but I think I lack the technique to actually get good speed consistently in a 40H sponge.



So what I did is got 2 Mercury II (soft and medium) and a ALL+ blade to see how it goes. Haven’t tried it yet buy I guess my game will slow down, but I can focus more on technique and positioning.



Any tips? Is it the right choice or should I keep using H3N but with a softer sponge?

40H without booster for a beginner is too hard.

Give the Mercury II and that blade some time and remember the difference for the time being. Then try H3N again in 38H or even the 37 Soft some time in the future as you improve.

 

[victormanriquey]

Hola!

I have used H3N now for years, and I have tried almost every combination of hardness, booster, sponge color and anything else you can think of, and my advice is that as a beginner, H3N 39 orange sponge (OS) commercial (or provincial if you don't want to gamble on tackiness QA) is perfectly fine from low intermediate all the way to high intermediate. At that point, you can think of blue sponge (BS) or increase hardness if you like the OS more.

All this said, as a real beginner, it's a difficult rubber to use because it requires the right technique. You need to be able to penetrate the rubber, and to do that, you need to hit-brush, or in other words, your hit-brush ratio needs more hit than brush to be able to engage the sponge. This is not easy as a beginner that's why a softer sponge like mercury 2 can be easier here. I have written about the topic of beginners and gear here: https://www.tabletennisequipmenthelp.com/blog You can see advise there for beginners and also why fast equipment may hurt you unless you have a coach and train properly.

In any case, another consideration is that H3N can be played unboosted, specially 39 OS, but it really shouldn't. The point of H3N is that you can boost it to your own liking until you get to your own taste. If you don't want to boost, choose other chinese tacky rubbers than dont need this, e.g. Battle II or Sanwei Target National or even H8 or 8-80. Hybrids are also fine, but a dignics 09c does not play like H3N, it has a much higher throw angle, be aware of that.

My gut feeling says that you should just learn the correct technique first with the mercury rubbers or 729 FX and then change to H3N when you are ready and if you want to boost

If you need any more help, I speak spanish so you can find more info on the link I sent you. As a H3N lover, I can sure tell you more about it

 

[goatdolphin]

Hola!

I have used H3N now for years, and I have tried almost every combination of hardness, booster, sponge color and anything else you can think of, and my advice is that as a beginner, H3N 39 orange sponge (OS) commercial (or provincial if you don't want to gamble on tackiness QA) is perfectly fine from low intermediate all the way to high intermediate. At that point, you can think of blue sponge (BS) or increase hardness if you like the OS more.

All this said, as a real beginner, it's a difficult rubber to use because it requires the right technique. You need to be able to penetrate the rubber, and to do that, you need to hit-brush, or in other words, your hit-brush ratio needs more hit than brush to be able to engage the sponge. This is not easy as a beginner that's why a softer sponge like mercury 2 can be easier here. I have written about the topic of beginners and gear here: https://www.tabletennisequipmenthelp.com/blog You can see advise there for beginners and also why fast equipment may hurt you unless you have a coach and train properly.

In any case, another consideration is that H3N can be played unboosted, specially 39 OS, but it really shouldn't. The point of H3N is that you can boost it to your own liking until you get to your own taste. If you don't want to boost, choose other chinese tacky rubbers than dont need this, e.g. Battle II or Sanwei Target National or even H8 or 8-80. Hybrids are also fine, but a dignics 09c does not play like H3N, it has a much higher throw angle, be aware of that.

My gut feeling says that you should just learn the correct technique first with the mercury rubbers or 729 FX and then change to H3N when you are ready and if you want to boost

If you need any more help, I speak spanish so you can find more info on the link I sent you. As a H3N lover, I can sure tell you more about it

I tried the M2 rubbers in a Loki Kirin K5 (All+) and this is my comparison with H3N h40 in a Stiga Azalea Allround:

-Flat hits are better/ faster with m2
-Easier to get lower serves but with less spin with m2
-Drives feel slightly faster with m2 (not much difference)
-Looping is significantly slower and less spinny with m2 (my partner told me that with m2 my 70-100% power loops were way easier to block compared with h3n)
-Slightly less control on short game
-Less gears?? (i think)
-Slightly more consistenciy on attack with m2

I know I have to take these conclusions with a pinch of salt (since I used a faster blade for the m2 and it was also heavier), but I think my looping technique is decent enough for using h3. Pairing it with a slow blade (5,6 mm 5ply for reference) allows me to play with a decent speed and lots of spin for my level if i hit the ball correctly without being too punishing. In the future i think I will switch to a 39 degree sponge (H3N or B2) and an OFF flexible blade to get more power (and maybe even boost it). But my conclusion for now is that I should focus more in other aspects of my game and stay with my current rubbers until I feel that are to slow for me.
But thanks for the help

 

[Nima Abadi]

NH3 40H is a serious rubber and using it will delay your progress, especially if you use it unboosted.

First, remember that NH3 rubbers are meant to be boosted and that's not me saying it, it's Chinese national players such as Zhang Jike and Fang Bo saying it.

Second, 40H is a really hard rubber and you're 100% going to lack the technique to use it so you're naturally going to compensate for it by using even worst technique (without knowing it). You will need to hit with larger strokes which will make it really hard to recover and to be consistent. Yes, your shots will be spiny (and slowish) but you end up doing more harm to your game as this will increase your errors, and lower your consistency.

Look at it like weight lifting, you don't pick up the heaviest weight that you can't even pick, but rather you build your way up to it slowly. Start with 38H orange sponge (if you don't want to boost) and work your way up. H39, it's better to boost but from H40 upward, you need to boost or your game will suffer.

 

[goatdolphin]

NH3 40H is a serious rubber and using it will delay your progress, especially if you use it unboosted.

First, remember that NH3 rubbers are meant to be boosted and that's not me saying it, it's Chinese national players such as Zhang Jike and Fang Bo saying it.

Second, 40H is a really hard rubber and you're 100% going to lack the technique to use it so you're naturally going to compensate for it by using even worst technique (without knowing it). You will need to hit with larger strokes which will make it really hard to recover and to be consistent. Yes, your shots will be spiny (and slowish) but you end up doing more harm to your game as this will increase your errors, and lower your consistency.

Look at it like weight lifting, you don't pick up the heaviest weight that you can't even pick, but rather you build your way up to it slowly. Start with 38H orange sponge (if you don't want to boost) and work your way up. H39, it's better to boost but from H40 upward, you need to boost or your game will suffer.

hmmm, then i could try boosting it. I dont have the money rn for a new rubber but I could try boosting this one to see how it feels. Is it to much of a problem if i boost this one instead of changing to 38H? And how may layers?should I put?

 

[rbtitco]

hmmm, then i could try boosting it. I dont have the money rn for a new rubber but I could try boosting this one to see how it feels. Is it to much of a problem if i boost this one instead of changing to 38H? And how may layers?should I put?

Its already paid for, so borrow some booster and put two layers on the sponge and reglue it. Its still not the best rubber for you, probably, but it will def be easier to play with than it is now.

 

[MORTtheORT]

St

+1 with this. The only thing he showed you is what you can achieve with experience and good technique. You have a few options here:
1) Try out the Mercury 2 and see how you feel with it
2) Go back to H3 but go for 39 or 37 and boost them
3) You could try out Rakza Z or Dignics 09C since they're supposed to be similar to a Boosted Hurricane 3 Blue Sponge

I would stay well clear of the D09C. It will kill your confidence as this is a very high level rubber requiring very high racket speed, excellent foot movement and lots of physical effort. When I play people with this rubber I know they are going to have problems controlling my spin.

 

[MORTtheORT]

Get the Tenergy 05 but avoid the max thickness...just get 1.9mm. Your game will improve over night as you will gain confidence in attacking as this rubber makes you want to attack....will change your game. If you like tacky focused rubbers that are not at this price point...get the Battle 3...

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

St

I would stay well clear of the D09C. It will kill your confidence as this is a very high level rubber requiring very high racket speed, excellent foot movement and lots of physical effort. When I play people with this rubber I know they are going to have problems controlling my spin.

That's just not true. You don't need very high racket speed or excellent footwork for this rubber, but you would need to put more effort than other rubbers like Tenergy 05 since it doesn't have the catapult like T05 does. On the other hand, you perfectly describes Hurricane 3 since you do need to have high racket speed for explosive shots and put for more effort in since Hurricane 3 has a hard sponge, especially if non-boosted. You said, "When I play people with this rubber I know they are going to have problems controlling my spin", that could mean a lot of things such as them not adjusting the blade's angle to counteract your topspin, they're lower rated than you, they can't read your spin, etc, not necessarily the rubber itself.

 

[MORTtheORT]

That's just not true. You don't need very high racket speed or excellent footwork for this rubber, but you would need to put more effort than other rubbers like Tenergy 05 since it doesn't have the catapult like T05 does. On the other hand, you perfectly describes Hurricane 3 since you do need to have high racket speed for explosive shots and put for more effort in since Hurricane 3 has a hard sponge, especially if non-boosted. You said, "When I play people with this rubber I know they are going to have problems controlling my spin", that could mean a lot of things such as them not adjusting the blade's angle to counteract your topspin, they're lower rated than you, they can't read your spin, etc, not necessarily the rubber itself.

The D09C is a hard rubber so you need high racket speed to activate the sponge and get a predictable response from the sponge. It also has a small amount of catapult and a high arc compared to the H3 which makes it none linear compared to the H3. Meaning it is prone to pop the ball when you have lower racket speed and fails to overpower spin. Given that the OP seems to lack confidence in a match to attack, they should stay away from this rubber. You have highlighted exactly what I target when playing against the D09C, technique issues as this rubber has zero safety for technical issues in players and is why it is best for highly advance players. Personally I do not recommend this rubber for any new to intermediate players as they will look like Ma Long in warm ups but the wheels will come off in a match situation and kill the players confidence.

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

The D09C is a hard rubber so you need high racket speed to activate the sponge and get a predictable response from the sponge. It also has a small amount of catapult and a high arc compared to the H3 which makes it none linear compared to the H3. Meaning it is prone to pop the ball when you have lower racket speed and fails to overpower spin. Given that the OP seems to lack confidence in a match to attack, they should stay away from this rubber. You have highlighted exactly what I target when playing against the D09C, technique issues as this rubber has zero safety for technical issues in players and is why it is best for highly advance players. Personally I do not recommend this rubber for any new to intermediate players as they will look like Ma Long in warm ups but the wheels will come off in a match situation and kill the players confidence.

The rubber won't make him lose confidence, the player's mindset will. His technique with H3 may have lacked, but that's what practice is for as well as possibly switching to a different rubber. Dignics 09C could be a better fit since it doesn't need as much effort and arm speed, but the OP is working on it or has already worked on it. Anyone can use 09c, but higher rated players are capable of using it more efficiently due to more experience and more practice. I would suggest you to go back to my January 14th post because I suggested OP 3 different options with Dignics 09c being one option and softer versions of Hurricane/boosting them being another. I recommend you DMing me if you wish to reply back to me so we don't disturb this thread of giving good recommendations to OP. Hope you have a wonderful day!