How do you guys perform a backhand topspin?

[TTstarter]

Im trying to develop a good backhand topspin but my current setup is a little awkward because it feels stiff and with little feeling (Im going to change it during the week), but because of that, I never really get a good hold of what I should do (or maybe more like whats comfortable for me), I tried to look for some advice in yt, but nobody seems to agree with an standart technique.

 

[Archosaurus]

I hate to talk about equipment in a technique thread; but changing to a much softer, easier sponge sped up my backhand development A LOT. I was using stuff that's just too difficult for me at the moment and I couldn't feel the ball and it kept flying long.

The main key points for me have been to lean forward a lot (look at Ma Long), hit the ball "under" my chest, keep the elbow high (maybe 1-2cm under shoulder) and to point the racket at my stomach on the backswing.

 

[TTstarter]

I hate to talk about equipment in a technique thread; but changing to a much softer, easier sponge sped up my backhand development A LOT. I was using stuff that's just too difficult for me at the moment and I couldn't feel the ball and it kept flying long.

The main key points for me have been to lean forward a lot (look at Ma Long), hit the ball "under" my chest, keep the elbow high (maybe 1-2cm under shoulder) and to point the racket at my stomach on the backswing.

I understand the equipment point, my issue is that currently im using an outer carbon blade that I had not sealed properly so its very stiff, thats why I said that im changing the equipment to a proper one during the week, also thanks for the advice on the tecnique, but could explain how do use the body in your backhand topspin? Would be very helpful since it seems like the most important part

 

[Archosaurus]

I understand the equipment point, my issue is that currently im using an outer carbon blade that I had not sealed properly so its very stiff, thats why I said that im changing the equipment to a proper one during the week, also thanks for the advice on the tecnique, but could explain how do use the body in your backhand topspin? Would be very helpful since it seems like the most important part

I don't really know anything beyond the very basics, which are to rotate the core from left to right, shift load slightly from left to right leg and to push upwards on both legs. Against backspin I'll exaggerate it and drop the right shoulder more so I can make a longer swing.

I will say I fixed a lot of my problems by standing lower, wider and more leaned forward. I had a big issue with straightening my body and crossing my right hand over to the left, with the elbow very close to the body. Success rate probably under 1% against wide balls to the backhand before I improved my method.

 

[mamedium]

i just put the ball on the table

 

[Yxoons]

While forehand topspin has a large snapping movement, backhand topspin is relatively shorter, but try to achieve the same snapping/whipping on the contact.

A good practice is to loop backspin balls to your backhand, to get the feeling of grapping the ball and getting a prominent arch on the ball. You can also do this to normal topspin balls, however the arch would be higher.

Once you get the timing/feeling for putting high spin into the ball, you can close your racket more aggressively, and shorten the movement to more of a whipping motion. If you flatten the racket and curve it inwards on the withdrawal it can help you shorten the forwarding motion as well as be more powerful on the shot, as you want the shot to come from inside to outside, rather than having the racket in front of you far and push further forward.

The more you close the racket, the more you need to quickly whip your racket to get enough spin on the ball, otherwise you'll keep putting it into the net. Often enough this is what I see with people struggling with backhand, is that they don't release enough energy into the ball while having the closed racket angle

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Im trying to develop a good backhand topspin but my current setup is a little awkward because it feels stiff and with little feeling (Im going to change it during the week), but because of that, I never really get a good hold of what I should do (or maybe more like whats comfortable for me), I tried to look for some advice in yt, but nobody seems to agree with an standart technique.

This Chinese dude seems to have a reasonable good backhand. Can try his style...

 

[Yxoons]

This Chinese dude seems to have a reasonable good backhand. Can try his style...

While FZD definitely has the strongest BH, copying his style can be very difficult and probably bad for non professional players. The amount of energy transfer he has and outputs on every shot is higher than any average players best shot. Every shot he makes is to win the point outright with 110% power, and his motion is only copyable if you have the same energy transfer as him. If you have medium hardness rubbers or play with tension rubber on the BH you'll probably also easily bottom out with this technique and it'll feel bad and uncontrollable.

You can learn snippets from professionals, but trying to copy their technique 1:1 is bad. Best is to develop your own feeling for the ball and power. You get a lot of feedback on BH shots, so you'll easily be able to tell a shot with high quality to one with low.

 

[Tyce]

What helps me a lot is to start playing BH to BH drive on a relaxed, not slow, pace, and really gradually add a little bit of spin on the ball. 10-20% for the first couple of spin balls, as your opponent turns his drive into a block.
Do that for a minute or two, then try to get a little more spin on (30-40%) and keep that level for a couple of minutes, too.
If you have to restart the rally, take 2 balls to drive, two to spin, two to step up the spin and continue.

For position, I love the "power triangle" concept. Get in BH ready position and bring your hands to meet in the center in front of you, forming the point of a triangle (your shoulders are the other points). Don't straighten the elbows, in fact let your upper arms point downward almost completely straight.
Your shoulders are relaxed at this point. No shrugging (turtling) and no pushing them downward, backwards or forwards.
If you are in this position, try swatting an imaginary ball off your non-playing hand. Or a real ball for that matter. You have now created a crosshair target for BH drive.
The transition from BH drive to starting a BH topspin is relatively subtle. A slightly larger backswing, mainly to enable the bat to go over the ball. Keep roughly the same timing, hitting the ball maybe 5-10cm closer to your body, and hit the ball in the top/back region.
You need to close your bat in order to do that and not hit the ball in the net, and this will be letting the rubber pull the ball forward. It's a bit like you're trying to brush the dirt off (hence the term "brushing the ball").

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

my knees goes soft on this...
View attachment 10619602-CF1F-429F-9FB0-59382CDB4DF4.mov

 

[Yxoons]

my knees goes soft on this...
View attachment 42980

None of those 2 shots is a topspin BH though. First is a banana flick, and 2nd is a flick/counter attack.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

None of those 2 shots is a topspin BH though. First is a banana flick, and 2nd is a flick/counter attack.

nitpicker... banana + flick + counter are not downspin stroke, hence by inversion of it, it is topspin stroke.
Logic, N can be 1 or 0. If N =/= 1, then N = 0. Me simple. Me happy.

 

[Yxoons]

nitpicker... banana + flick + counter are not downspin stroke, hence by inversion of it, it is topspin stroke.
Logic, N can be 1 or 0. If N =/= 1, then N = 0. Me simple. Me happy.

That is one of the worst logics I've ever seen, that's like saying a drive is the same as a power loop on FH side, just because it doesn't add backspin. If only TT was so easy that every shot is either 0 or 1

 

[Tyce]

A lot of banana mechanics can be carried over to a normal BH loop. Taking the ball in a place where you have good control over the contact, strong brushing, very useful.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

me simple. me see topspin ball, me banana. Me see downspin ball, me also banana. Algo is clean,
no need mega database center to perform quintrillion calculation.

 

[Tyce]

me simple. me see topspin ball, me banana. Me see downspin ball, me also banana. Algo is clean,
no need mega database center to perform quintrillion calculation.

What happened to Hulk Smash?

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

mWhat happened to Hulk Smash?

Spoiler: Hulk discovered spin...

 

[J-fed]

i just put the ball on the table

Then pick it up and play!

 

[latej]

Then pick it up and play!

Dribble it 2 or 3 times first!

EDIT: Improving BH is a struggle. Yesterday played combination: serve backspin, get backspin back to BH, open with topspin, get it block back to BH, play BH fast topspin down the line... My partners can generate more spin down the line and more speed down the line... I need to improve it... It helped keeping the racket a bit more up for the 2nd topspin, but to generate speed I think my position is wrong I need to hit it a bit more left from the body... Probably ;-)

 

[dingyibvs]

What helps me a lot is to start playing BH to BH drive on a relaxed, not slow, pace, and really gradually add a little bit of spin on the ball. 10-20% for the first couple of spin balls, as your opponent turns his drive into a block.
Do that for a minute or two, then try to get a little more spin on (30-40%) and keep that level for a couple of minutes, too.
If you have to restart the rally, take 2 balls to drive, two to spin, two to step up the spin and continue.

For position, I love the "power triangle" concept. Get in BH ready position and bring your hands to meet in the center in front of you, forming the point of a triangle (your shoulders are the other points). Don't straighten the elbows, in fact let your upper arms point downward almost completely straight.
Your shoulders are relaxed at this point. No shrugging (turtling) and no pushing them downward, backwards or forwards.
If you are in this position, try swatting an imaginary ball off your non-playing hand. Or a real ball for that matter. You have now created a crosshair target for BH drive.
The transition from BH drive to starting a BH topspin is relatively subtle. A slightly larger backswing, mainly to enable the bat to go over the ball. Keep roughly the same timing, hitting the ball maybe 5-10cm closer to your body, and hit the ball in the top/back region.
You need to close your bat in order to do that and not hit the ball in the net, and this will be letting the rubber pull the ball forward. It's a bit like you're trying to brush the dirt off (hence the term "brushing the ball").

What's helped me is to take it even a step further. Don't even start with the BH drive, just start with the BH lob. I just try to lob the ball as low above the net as possible, make sure I can do that with good timing, kinetic chain, etc. first. Then I start adding some spin.

Another thing that helped me a lot is to not drop the head of the racket. That's because if you do that, then you'd have to bring the racket head up then over the ball, and that's just too much curving around the ball to be consistent during a match. My coach kept telling me "don't curve around the ball, just go through it!" If I just keep my racket head up high, pointing to the left and a bit up, then I can directly hit the ball and brush over/through it at contact.

Of course, everyone is different. We all have different problems in our motion, which require different fixes. Those are some of the fixes that worked for me.