Switching from “learning rubbers”

[Petar18]

Hi guys! I’ve been playing table tennis for about a year now, and I switched from pre-made racket to my current setup (Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon blade and Yasaka Original Extra rubbers 2.1mm) around 10 months ago. I’d like to switch to a bit better rubbers now since I feel like these have become a bit to slow for me. I play offensively, and I’d say my backhand is pretty strong (or at least stronger than my forehand). Any recommendations?

 

[jonol]

Can't really go wrong with Rakza 7 Soft and Rakza 7.

The R7 Soft will be slightly harder and faster than the Original Extra and will be able to give you more spin.

The regular R7 will be noticeably harder and able to produce a lot more speed with harder shots.

Both would be a meaningful upgrade. The Rakza 7 is generally considered the standard entry point for a controlled attacking rubber.

R7 Soft on both sides would be a very safe choice. R7 Soft on one side and regular R7 on the other would let you experiment with which side you prefer the harder sponge and more power, giving you some more room to grow into a more offensive game.

 

[Petar18]

Can't really go wrong with Rakza 7 Soft and Rakza 7.

The R7 Soft will be slightly harder and faster than the Original Extra and will be able to give you more spin.

The regular R7 will be noticeably harder and able to produce a lot more speed with harder shots.

Both would be a meaningful upgrade. The Rakza 7 is generally considered the standard entry point for a controlled attacking rubber.

R7 Soft on both sides would be a very safe choice. R7 Soft on one side and regular R7 on the other would let you experiment with which side you prefer the harder sponge and more power, giving you some more room to grow into a more offensive game.

Thanks!

 

[Archosaurus]

Don't you think it'd be a good idea to post some video of yourself playing?

A year isn't that long, and your level could be very different depending on if you train with a coach for 30 hours a week or if you hit casually for 3. I think it's going to be difficult to gauge how appropriate any advice about equipment is without knowing where exactly you're at.

You said your backhand is stronger than your forehand, but that could mean a lot of things, anything from "I hit the ball really hard and flat with a big swing when I get a high ball in the middle" or "my backhand counterloop against the 3rd ball is better than my forehand".

I'm not trying to say you're not good enough to change equipment or anything like that, but I feel like anyone giving you advice would need to guess a lot.

 

[b3N]

Without seeing you play, the natural progression from the Original Extra is the Mark V. That's the way that Yasaka market it anyway. My instinct is that you've gone with a carbon blade too soon with a rubber that's too slow. The Yasaka Sweden Extra blade has a very similar construction to the Ma Lin blade you're using but is a little slower. So I'd put a Mark V HPS (the speed version of Mark V) on it both sides, you'll enjoy the zip of the rubber straight away. And after you're used to how the new rubber plays (after a year or so), rip it off and stick it on your Ma Lin Soft Carbon. The feeling will be very similar but with extra speed, and you're good to go.
The Rakza 7 is nice too but would be a bit of a shock coming from the Original Extra.

 

[Tyce]

Progressing into Mark V in this day and age? That's like saying Ma Lin Soft Carbon is a fast carbon blade... Oh wait.

Yes, the Original Extra is dead slow, and on paper Mark V is a step up but it's changing quicksand for mud. Both have no potential as a learning rubber anymore and delaying the switch to something like a Rakza 7 would just make you have to learn and unlearn a lot more down the road.
Rakza 7 soft both sides, or Xiom Vega Europe, and get them in 1.8 sponge to soften the transition a little bit without sacrificing too much performance potential.
At this point I would advise against getting the regular version, but that would be my suggestion for your rubbers after going through a set of softer ones.

 

[Petar18]

Don't you think it'd be a good idea to post some video of yourself playing?

A year isn't that long, and your level could be very different depending on if you train with a coach for 30 hours a week or if you hit casually for 3. I think it's going to be difficult to gauge how appropriate any advice about equipment is without knowing where exactly you're at.

You said your backhand is stronger than your forehand, but that could mean a lot of things, anything from "I hit the ball really hard and flat with a big swing when I get a high ball in the middle" or "my backhand counterloop against the 3rd ball is better than my forehand".

I'm not trying to say you're not good enough to change equipment or anything like that, but I feel like anyone giving you advice would need to guess a lot.

That’s a fair point, I get what you mean. Unfortunately I don’t have any recent videos of myself playing at the moment, but I’ll film some and post them as soon as I can.

For a bit more context: I’ve been playing for about a year and I train around 10–12 hours a week, about half of that with a coach.

I’d describe myself as an offensive player who focuses more on placement and consistency than raw power. On the backhand side, I mostly play a topspin-oriented game with a mix of looping and occasional punching, and I’m more comfortable initiating attacks there, including most of my openings.

In rallies, I’m quite comfortable in backhand exchanges and often build the point there before increasing the pace or changing direction, sometimes finishing by pivoting into a forehand attack. My forehand is also a consistent topspin stroke, just slightly less reliable than my backhand.

I tend to win points by changing direction and applying pressure with pace when the opportunity comes up, rather than going for outright power from the start. I can play both close and mid-distance, but I’m probably more comfortable around mid-distance.

I’m mainly looking for a rubber that gives me a bit more speed and spin than my current setup, without losing too much control.

I know it’s not super precise without video, but I’d still appreciate general recommendations for that kind of playstyle.

 

[Haito]

That’s a fair point, I get what you mean. Unfortunately I don’t have any recent videos of myself playing at the moment, but I’ll film some and post them as soon as I can.

For a bit more context: I’ve been playing for about a year and I train around 10–12 hours a week, about half of that with a coach.

I’d describe myself as an offensive player who focuses more on placement and consistency than raw power. On the backhand side, I mostly play a topspin-oriented game with a mix of looping and occasional punching, and I’m more comfortable initiating attacks there, including most of my openings.

In rallies, I’m quite comfortable in backhand exchanges and often build the point there before increasing the pace or changing direction, sometimes finishing by pivoting into a forehand attack. My forehand is also a consistent topspin stroke, just slightly less reliable than my backhand.

I tend to win points by changing direction and applying pressure with pace when the opportunity comes up, rather than going for outright power from the start. I can play both close and mid-distance, but I’m probably more comfortable around mid-distance.

I’m mainly looking for a rubber that gives me a bit more speed and spin than my current setup, without losing too much control.

I know it’s not super precise without video, but I’d still appreciate general recommendations for that kind of playstyle.

It's super hard to judge someone playing level without feeling the ball they play. With video you can get a decent idea. If you want a good recomendation, a video would be awesome. You can always blur out your face or something :|

 

[Haito]

Regardless of your level, Combo of Vega Asia + Euro (I would recommend Joola Tronix CMD + ACC, but they discontinued it...), Tibhar EL-D + FX-p, AK47 red and blue. Whatever you can find for good price.

 

[Tyce]

You say you have a coach, what do they recommend? Someone who has seen you play live is the best reference you can get

 

[andymagata]

When I see Anton Andersson, the pingpongmaestro, play with anti on his forehand I realize there is no such thing as a slow rubber.

 

[DrBean]

When I see Anton Andersson, the pingpongmaestro, play with anti on his forehand I realize there is no such thing as a slow rubber.

When I see Max Verstappen, the F1maestro, driving a DAF 66 I realze there is no such thing as a slow car.

 

[Archosaurus]

When I see Max Verstappen, the F1maestro, driving a DAF 66 I realze there is no such thing as a slow car.

To be fair the performance difference between table tennis rubbers and blades is much lower on account of them being human-actuated and the forces being so much lower. The laptime difference between a poor driver and a world champion might be 10% in absolute terms. I wonder how many people get within 10% shot speed of the elite pros.

You can just hit more effectively, you can't really force a tire to grip more or an engine to torque more no matter how skilled you are, and it's much easier to take a car relatively close to its performance limits than it is to take a table tennis racket to its performance limits IMO. Maybe some of that is just my performance driving pace being at a professional level, and my table tennis being at a child's level, but I would guess I'm still right.

Most people can probably get even difficult to drive high performance cars to 95% of their performance limit on a skidpad, but I'm surprised if even 10% of amateurs can produce 95% of a world champion's shot quality in drills.

Sorry for overanalyzing your joke.

 

[Petar18]

You say you have a coach, what do they recommend? Someone who has seen you play live is the best reference you can get

I will ask him for advice before I buy the rubbers, just wanted to see what other people would recommend.

 

[b3N]

Progressing into Mark V in this day and age? That's like saying Ma Lin Soft Carbon is a fast carbon blade... Oh wait.

Yes, the Original Extra is dead slow, and on paper Mark V is a step up but it's changing quicksand for mud. Both have no potential as a learning rubber anymore and delaying the switch to something like a Rakza 7 would just make you have to learn and unlearn a lot more down the road.
Rakza 7 soft both sides, or Xiom Vega Europe, and get them in 1.8 sponge to soften the transition a little bit without sacrificing too much performance potential.
At this point I would advise against getting the regular version, but that would be my suggestion for your rubbers after going through a set of softer ones.

I don't know if you've used the Mark V HPS but it's actually quite quick. A very popular rubber in Japan. Suitable for most club players. A good rubber.
If you're talking the Yasaka range, Rigan is a better option than Rakza 7 soft imo. More tolerance and easy to play with, with good spin 👌

 

[DrBean]

Sorry for overanalyzing your joke.

Nice, a fellow petrolhead.

What you said boils down to: you yourself can maximize a car setup more than you can maximize a racket setup. I'm not sure you can generalize that to the population at large. Force is force, regardless of what produces it. Extending your analogy, there's also a limit to how much force a human can impart - much like an engine, and how much grip a rubber can have, much like a tire. If there's sweat on the ball, it's like driving in rain.

The effects are relative - which is what the joke was about.

 

[Archosaurus]

Nice, a fellow petrolhead.

What you said boils down to: you yourself can maximize a car setup more than you can maximize a racket setup. I'm not sure you can generalize that to the population at large. Force is force, regardless of what produces it. Extending your analogy, there's also a limit to how much force a human can impart - much like an engine, and how much grip a rubber can have, much like a tire. If there's sweat on the ball, it's like driving in rain.

The effects are relative - which is what the joke was about.

I'm more meaning that if you take a person off the street and put them on a skidpad, all they really need to do to get very close to a car's objective performance limit is to turn the wheel to the rough correct angle and hold a bit of throttle. I've coached complete beginners to do it successfully in a few minutes. Probably most people, young and old, fit and unfit, can do it in a controlled scenario with a bit of instruction. It's not that hard to learn by yourself either.

I don't think most people regardless of age or condition could do that with any table tennis stroke. How many people were hitting shots which are 90%+ as good as professional shots during their first hour of coaching?

 

[andymagata]

If you are a person that don’t want to try a lot of different set ups, I think you should go for the Rakza 7 rubbers. But since you said that your backhand is better, you should ask your coach if short pips on forehand might be for you. It simplify your forehand game, and modern pips are somewhat like beginner inverted. For me, the first time I tried it on forehand, it was a great revelation of finally finding the feeling I was looking for.

 

[Tyce]

I don't know if you've used the Mark V HPS but it's actually quite quick. A very popular rubber in Japan. Suitable for most club players. A good rubber.
If you're talking the Yasaka range, Rigan is a better option than Rakza 7 soft imo. More tolerance and easy to play with, with good spin 👌

Nope, I'll have to take your word for it, but I would still advise against it and here's why:

As a (fairly) new player, there is still a lot of room to grow. Mark V HPS is like a 50s race car on steroids: it's essentially a racing car, but simply not made for this game. You can adjust is with modern suspension and better tyres to make it much faster, but the problem is it's built on an old chassis.
The chassis (the Mark V topsheet) works nothing like modern ones. It has good grip, one of the best (if not the best) of its era, which makes that it can still come up not too far short in today's game - but it does come up short.

Compare it to a semi-modern tensor (Rakza 7 is 2010 and the first wave of Tenergy competitors) and we're talking conceptually different rubbers, built with a philosophy that is still applicable to today's game. You can learn basics with this type of rubber that are transferable to top range rubbers like Dignics and Zyre because in essence, those employ the same tensor effect.
You can't learn the same methods of applying spin with a Mark V topsheet, unless you also want to go and apply speed glue and get the effect that these newer rubbers are trying to emulate.

There's a player at my club, quite decent (better than me) but also quite a few years older than me, who switched from Mark V to R7 soft on his BH a few months ago and while he's still getting used to it, his balls are simply better quality. More spin, faster, he has a much easier time opening up and attacking. That's what a topsheet from this century does vs one that was made half a century ago. And the sooner you make this switch, the more you're going to be able to learn to play it like it's supposed to be played.

I understand club players, especially those who have been playing Mark V for a couple of decades, will simply keep with the fastest Mark V-like option they can get their hands on. And that's fair game! But they have hit a ceiling by sticking with that and will never be able to produce the quality of balls required to move up.

Rigan is an interesting suggestion. I had to read up on it because somehow it looks like an old rubber and I've always ignored it because of that, but it seems to be even more of a friendly entry into tensors (like Vega Intro or something). Good idea if the step to R7(s) feels too much.

 

[Haito]

To be fair the performance difference between table tennis rubbers and blades is much lower on account of them being human-actuated and the forces being so much lower. The laptime difference between a poor driver and a world champion might be 10% in absolute terms. I wonder how many people get within 10% shot speed of the elite pros.

You can just hit more effectively, you can't really force a tire to grip more or an engine to torque more no matter how skilled you are, and it's much easier to take a car relatively close to its performance limits than it is to take a table tennis racket to its performance limits IMO. Maybe some of that is just my performance driving pace being at a professional level, and my table tennis being at a child's level, but I would guess I'm still right.

Most people can probably get even difficult to drive high performance cars to 95% of their performance limit on a skidpad, but I'm surprised if even 10% of amateurs can produce 95% of a world champion's shot quality in drills.

Sorry for overanalyzing your joke.

From my perspective the whole subject is missing the point a bit. I could get about the same ball from C53 and Hurricane 3, the limit was always my body and technique. The main difference was that when I played with H3 my legs would kill me the next day.