Beginner setup for SP?

[golden_son]

Looking for suggestions for a beginner-friendly short pips (FH) setup. A coworker of mine is looking to have his own racket, but as of now it's unlikely he'll dive much into learning techniques or actual coaching beyond whatever tips I give him, so it doesn't have to be fancy stuff just better than a department-store premade. He's built like Mattias Karlsson (formerly Falck) and hits like him, too, hence the decision to go with SP on the FH side. If he were a "normal" player looking to learn to start spinning with inverted on both sides I could set him up no problem but I'm less familiar with pips overall.

For beginners using inverted, 5-ply all-round stuff like Yasaka Sweden Extra, Korbel, Loki Kirin k5 etc is usually to recommendation; is it basically the same for SP or is there anything else to consider? (Handle will be another consideration since he's a tall dude with long hands.) Trying to keep the budget low since he's not super-serious, so nothing Nittaku and probably not Butterfly. Chinese stuff is A-OK.

 

[Ultravisitor]

Short pips tend to work better on stiffer blades. 7ply blades work well.
So my suggestion:
Blade: Sanwei Fextra, Yinhe U2 or DHS PG7 depending on handle preferences
FH: 729 Friendship 802-40
BH: Yinhe Moon 12 medium soft.

 

[Lula]

I use Korbel now. Have played with short pips forehand for 20 years. You want a thick short hit. This is easier on faster harder blades. Get much more arc with 5 ply blades but harder to get the correct contact and the blade feels a bit flimsey.
You can kill someone with 802-40. Much easier with booster. I do not know of the mystery versions but i think those are a bit softer and probably a bit easier. Otherwise a good short pimple rubber. Above mention blades will probably work well.
A bit stiffer 5-ply blades like extra offensive or Goibao can probably work aswell.
Maybe that a hard 802-40 can work well on softer 5-plys like you mentioned. Probably better with a bit softer rubber and harder blade i think.

 

[Ultravisitor]

Yinhe Uranus has a pretty soft sponge, but has less friction than 802-40. Yinhe Uranus pro has a very fast sponge and plays more modern.
Ttdd.eu has aversion of 802-40 with a soft sponge, I liked this the most, but I can't find it on AliExpress

 

[golden_son]

Yinhe Uranus has a pretty soft sponge, but has less friction than 802-40. Yinhe Uranus pro has a very fast sponge and plays more modern.
Ttdd.eu has aversion of 802-40 with a soft sponge, I liked this the most, but I can't find it on AliExpress

Could the softer sponge be the "Mystery" version Lula mentioned? I see 802-40 Mystery III on Ali, along with Legend (this appears to be a different 802 rubber, and Mystery III the only version of 802-40, but in a variety of different sponge hardnesses).

When you say "very fast sponge" (Uranus Pro), is that only in regards to other SP rubbers or is it comparable to modern inverted tensors/hybrids? How do the 802-40 and Uranus compare to something like a Yasaka Rakza PO? I'm leaning toward the 802-40 since I've read good things about it in other threads as well, but I'm curious what the differences are. I'm mostly looking for something he can pick up and play without having to learn to tame it, so to speak.

 

[Lula]

802-40 is an "old" rubber. I think Rakza have less grip but have built in speed glue/booster effect so much faster and softer. Can imagine it is easier to use rakza or similar rubber that is a bit faster and softer, at least more fun. But rubbers with more grip is also more similar to inverted so easier to play with. Have not tester Spinfire but i think that is one of the pimples with most grip which i think is also fast and bit softer?

 

[golden_son]

After some more research I found there's a "802-40 Special Super Soft," 35°. The Mystery III is 38/40/42. I'm pretty confident 40/42 is too hard for him as a newbie, but as an entry point to SP do y'all recommend a softer sponge (similar to inverted, for more control) or slightly firmer for better attacking? Basically, should I just grab the 38d Mystery III or try to find the 35d somewhere?

I lean toward the Fextra (I know the F5 has a good, thick handle) or U2 (I like Yinhe but can't tell how the handle is) over the PG7 as DHS seems to bill it as OFF++; too fast for a true amateur I think.

 

[the-don]

if he's a beginner maybe choose a racket for beginners?
he can hit with that too.

Recreational Table Tennis Paddles for All Ages | Affordable Ping Pong Bats Paddle Palace

www.paddlepalace.com

 

[Ultravisitor]

Could the softer sponge be the "Mystery" version Lula mentioned? I see 802-40 Mystery III on Ali, along with Legend (this appears to be a different 802 rubber, and Mystery III the only version of 802-40, but in a variety of different sponge hardnesses).

When you say "very fast sponge" (Uranus Pro), is that only in regards to other SP rubbers or is it comparable to modern inverted tensors/hybrids? How do the 802-40 and Uranus compare to something like a Yasaka Rakza PO? I'm leaning toward the 802-40 since I've read good things about it in other threads as well, but I'm curious what the differences are. I'm mostly looking for something he can pick up and play without having to learn to tame it, so to speak.

Uranus pro is more like a tensor like you said. I've never played a esn short pip so I can't tell you more. It plays similar to Spinlord Waran if that helps

 

[Ultravisitor]

After some more research I found there's a "802-40 Special Super Soft," 35°. The Mystery III is 38/40/42. I'm pretty confident 40/42 is too hard for him as a newbie, but as an entry point to SP do y'all recommend a softer sponge (similar to inverted, for more control) or slightly firmer for better attacking? Basically, should I just grab the 38d Mystery III or try to find the 35d somewhere?

I lean toward the Fextra (I know the F5 has a good, thick handle) or U2 (I like Yinhe but can't tell how the handle is) over the PG7 as DHS seems to bill it as OFF++; too fast for a true amateur I think.

Speed wise I'd say PG7 is the slowest and has most flex. Then U2 and Fextra is the fastest to me.

 

[golden_son]

if he's a beginner maybe choose a racket for beginners?
he can hit with that too.

Recreational Table Tennis Paddles for All Ages | Affordable Ping Pong Bats Paddle Palace

www.paddlepalace.com

We have a dozen premade rackets at our office in varying degrees of usability. He wants something better, and is interested in pips. I order it and glue it and he gives me a little commission on top of the materials. It's the little side hustle that helps pay for my EJ habit

 

[kase]

yinhe pd537 (7 ply) + uranus pro. The uranus is available in a variety of thicknesses and hardnesses, so it's very tweakable. Also cheap and good performance. Start with medium, perhaps, and 2.1mm for hitting + spinning, or 1.8mm for only hitting and occasional spinning..

 

[TechScriptAid]

Looking for suggestions for a beginner-friendly short pips (FH) setup. A coworker of mine is looking to have his own racket, but as of now it's unlikely he'll dive much into learning techniques or actual coaching beyond whatever tips I give him, so it doesn't have to be fancy stuff just better than a department-store premade. He's built like Mattias Karlsson (formerly Falck) and hits like him, too, hence the decision to go with SP on the FH side. If he were a "normal" player looking to learn to start spinning with inverted on both sides I could set him up no problem but I'm less familiar with pips overall.

For beginners using inverted, 5-ply all-round stuff like Yasaka Sweden Extra, Korbel, Loki Kirin k5 etc is usually to recommendation; is it basically the same for SP or is there anything else to consider? (Handle will be another consideration since he's a tall dude with long hands.) Trying to keep the budget low since he's not super-serious, so nothing Nittaku and probably not Butterfly. Chinese stuff is A-OK.

Hey man,
Yeah, he absolutely means short pips-out — the bumpy stuff, not smooth inverted. Classic Karlsson/Falck forehand setup. Flat hitting, taking the ball early, minimal brushing. That's the style.

Blade:
For inverted beginners, soft 5-ply blades like Yasaka Sweden Extra or Korbel are perfect because they give you dwell time and feedback to learn spin. Short pips are the opposite story — you generally want a stiffer, more linear blade. Soft, flexy wood makes the ball feel mushy on flat contacts. Blocks go long, drives lack crispness, and the whole thing feels unpredictable.
what i feel , he needs something in the middle — stiff enough for the pips to behave, forgiving enough that his lack of coaching won't murder him.

As per my experience and knowledge , below may be some best fits as per him : Yinhe U-2 Or Sanwei Fextra Or DHS PG7
gotcha : Chinese blades like Yinhe/Sanwei tend to run slightly larger than Japanese/European handles anyway, which helps. Avoid anatomic unless he specifically asks for it.

Rubber , i would say : FH -> Friendship 729 802-40 as a safe choice for now.
BH -> 729 Super FX or Focus III Snipe

Tip : first time gluing a new blade may be a challenging experience. Don't go with youtube videos. Ask any expert nearby you to do it , avoid gluing in playing area. Choose the bit viscous glue if using new blade.

 

[andymagata]

Stop it right there. Most of the tips above comes from people not playing short pips, or long since forgot how it was to be a beginner.

A 7 ply blade, or any hard stiff blade for that matter, is not good for a beginner. He will never feel the ball hit the blade, and will be confused what happened. He needs some dwell - yes even with short pips - because the flat hit they talk about as short pips strength are not a pure flat hit in practice. We humans are not robots, and will never play like robots. We need some feeling.

So, go for a 5 ply blade with a soft feeling.

And the pips suggested are covers pro’s or semi pro’s use. Forget about bouncy stuff like Yinhe Uranus and Friendships with mystery 3 sponge. Order the lovely Meteor 845 with orange sponge, it is not only me who likes it, also Steve from Custom Table Tennis said it is his favourite.

 

[andymagata]

Stop it right there. Most of the tips above comes from people not playing short pips, or long since forgot how it was to be a beginner.

A 7 ply blade, or any hard stiff blade for that matter, is not good for a beginner. He will never feel the ball hit the blade, and will be confused what happened. He needs some dwell - yes even with short pips - because the flat hit they talk about as short pips strength are not a pure flat hit in practice. We humans are not robots, and will never play like robots. We need some feeling.

So, go for a 5 ply blade with a soft feeling.

And the pips suggested are covers pro’s or semi pro’s use. Forget about bouncy stuff like Yinhe Uranus and Friendships with mystery 3 sponge. Order the lovely Meteor 845 with orange sponge, it is not only me who likes it, also Steve from Custom Table Tennis said it is his favourite.

I realize that my post is a bit harsh. I am not arguing that the suggestions are not good or the best way to learn a Falck style short pips game. My take is that the player should have a forgiving, fun, and social experiance with colleagues rather than becoming a competitive player.

 

[TechScriptAid]

Stop it right there. Most of the tips above comes from people not playing short pips, or long since forgot how it was to be a beginner.

A 7 ply blade, or any hard stiff blade for that matter, is not good for a beginner. He will never feel the ball hit the blade, and will be confused what happened. He needs some dwell - yes even with short pips - because the flat hit they talk about as short pips strength are not a pure flat hit in practice. We humans are not robots, and will never play like robots. We need some feeling.

So, go for a 5 ply blade with a soft feeling.

And the pips suggested are covers pro’s or semi pro’s use. Forget about bouncy stuff like Yinhe Uranus and Friendships with mystery 3 sponge. Order the lovely Meteor 845 with orange sponge, it is not only me who likes it, also Steve from Custom Table Tennis said it is his favourite.

as per mentioned you -> 5 ply blade with a soft feeling , that is something that Yasaka Sweden family has and also many other blades.
IMHO , as seen majority of comments , the sole purpose of stiff blade is to make short pip to work without much catapult in action because being beginner he won't be able to take advantage of catapult effect .

Interesting thing in all this thread that was going monotonous is now getting meaningful.

 

[Lula]

I think it will be way harder to get a correct stroke mechanics with a soft blade. The ball sinks in, you get longer contact and not as good technique. Almost worse control because the blade flex and bends, and ball goes a lot upward.
I agree not to fast is not good either. A bit stiffer 5 ply like yasaka extra offensive or Korbel Japan I think would work. Or a bit softer 7 ply like clipper.
If it get soft rubber and soft blade I think it is hard to get correct stroke and hard blade hard rubber it will be to stiff. I think yasaka Sweden will be to thin and flimsy.
Regarding technique I think multiball is easiest to do. In regular exercises I find it can be hard to learn the stroke correct since you want to get good play so you wait a lot on the ball and many times get a long contact.
For safety I think it will more safe if you get low, hit a bit under the ball to create arc, use more body than arm and try to take the ball at the highest point all the time.

Best way is porrbably test some equipment and see how it is.

 

[b3N]

Hey man,
Yeah, he absolutely means short pips-out — the bumpy stuff, not smooth inverted. Classic Karlsson/Falck forehand setup. Flat hitting, taking the ball early, minimal brushing. That's the style.

Blade:
For inverted beginners, soft 5-ply blades like Yasaka Sweden Extra or Korbel are perfect because they give you dwell time and feedback to learn spin. Short pips are the opposite story — you generally want a stiffer, more linear blade. Soft, flexy wood makes the ball feel mushy on flat contacts. Blocks go long, drives lack crispness, and the whole thing feels unpredictable.
what i feel , he needs something in the middle — stiff enough for the pips to behave, forgiving enough that his lack of coaching won't murder him.

As per my experience and knowledge , below may be some best fits as per him : Yinhe U-2 Or Sanwei Fextra Or DHS PG7
gotcha : Chinese blades like Yinhe/Sanwei tend to run slightly larger than Japanese/European handles anyway, which helps. Avoid anatomic unless he specifically asks for it.

Rubber , i would say : FH -> Friendship 729 802-40 as a safe choice for now.
BH -> 729 Super FX or Focus III Snipe

Tip : first time gluing a new blade may be a challenging experience. Don't go with youtube videos. Ask any expert nearby you to do it , avoid gluing in playing area. Choose the bit viscous glue if using new blade.

This is spot-on advice. You want a stiffer all-round 7 ply. 802-40 on the FH and 729FX on the backhand. It's no more complicated than that.
I don't know much about 7 ply blades on the market but those sound suitable.

 

[golden_son]

Great thread and advice!

One thing I will specifically call out/clarify is that it's unlikely he is going to do any sort of training or learning proper technique - he already plays "ping pong" fine so he's not an absolute novice, just not classically trained. Basement trained, if you will. He just wants something less dead than the premades, and pip-out seems appropriate for his flat hitting style. Since he's not going to start learning proper loops and lots of spin, I actually think a stiffer blade and a quick but relatively controlled PO is the way to go.

I ended up ordering a Fextra and Tuttle Summer C3 since it's been referred to as a slightly softer 802-40 and I couldn't find the 802-40 Supersoft anywhere. The Tuttle was just as cheap so if it doesn't work out it was an inexpensive experiment and I can order him the regular 802-40, or the Meteor instead.

Now for BH...well, he doesn't do much except passive blocks and light pushes so I convinced him to try BTY Super Anti . Another experiment but I think he'll have more fun giving people soft/dead balls and drawing out a bad return he can smack with the SP. If that doesn't work, I have a spare sheet of Moon 12 Blue M- I can swap in, though 729FX is also an option.