Tibhar Evolution low throw angle?

[TensorBackhand]

I've recently been testing out the Evolution MXP and MXD, and I find that they both have a low, rather uncomfortable throw angle. I would say they are similar to Tenergy 64 in throw angle.

I see so many people using Evolution. It never really occurred to me how low the throw angle is.

So does anybody else feel the throw angle is low? And who do people like this kind of rubber? I find that it is both very hard to punch and very hard to loop.

 

[cytivrat]

Evolution series is not limited with those two, others might have different throw angle
Are you talking about MXP or about MXP 50? From what I heard MXP 50 has lower throw angle than ordinary one.
Regarding personal experience, MXD was rather low as for my FH, had to keep in mind this on every loop, couldn't adjust to it fully, abandoned it at the end. But suddenly was ok for my BH.
MXP - was great for me and in terms of throw angle too, not very high and not very low, was quite easy to loop everything, just what I wanted after trying to replace T05 for a couple of years.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Evolution series is not limited with those two, others might have different throw angle
Are you talking about MXP or about MXP 50? From what I heard MXP 50 has lower throw angle than ordinary one.
Regarding personal experience, MXD was rather low as for my FH, had to keep in mind this on every loop, couldn't adjust to it fully, abandoned it at the end. But suddenly was ok for my BH.
MXP - was great for me and in terms of throw angle too, not very high and not very low, was quite easy to loop everything, just what I wanted after trying to replace T05 for a couple of years.

So you felt mxp was higher than mxd?

 

[TheProfessor]

MXP throw is around medium I wouldn't say it's that low. For mxd it is kinda low but it's not bad you just have to engage the sponge. Here's an oooold video of me using mxp on my bh

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[K.K]

mx-p is not low, it is actually high compared to modern rubbers, but you need to have good technique to create the arc. it is no wonder why pros use it as an alternative for tenergy/dignics 05

 

[Lazer]

I've recently been testing out the Evolution MXP and MXD, and I find that they both have a low, rather uncomfortable throw angle. I would say they are similar to Tenergy 64 in throw angle.

I see so many people using Evolution. It never really occurred to me how low the throw angle is.

So does anybody else feel the throw angle is low? And who do people like this kind of rubber? I find that it is both very hard to punch and very hard to loop.

You have to remember, it also matters wich blade You put it on...

Cheers
L-zr

 

[TheProfessor]

mx-p is not low, it is actually high compared to modern rubbers, but you need to have good technique to create the arc. it is no wonder why pros use it as an alternative for tenergy/dignics 05

Yup yup, supposedly it's closest to T80 among the tenergies, sponge wise it's comparable to the spring sponge somewhat. Pros use a 53-56 degree sponge of their choosing for those using MX-P, I can't wait to get my hands on Infinity MX-P as they have had a press release for it but not exact release date atm.

 

[cytivrat]

So you felt mxp was higher than mxd?

Yes

 

[Angerer]

I've recently been testing out the Evolution MXP and MXD, and I find that they both have a low, rather uncomfortable throw angle. I would say they are similar to Tenergy 64 in throw angle.

I see so many people using Evolution. It never really occurred to me how low the throw angle is.

So does anybody else feel the throw angle is low? And who do people like this kind of rubber? I find that it is both very hard to punch and very hard to loop.

Yes, MXP, MXD, and for instance, ELD all have low throw angle.
In fact, I've been using Nittaku Z2/Glayzer for quite a while, and these are considered to have medium-low and medium throws respectively. And yet, I was able to clear the net effortlessly after a short adjustment with Z2/Glayzer.
Meanwhile, the Evolution series often end up catching the net no matter what

 

[K.K]

Yes, MXP, MXD, and for instance, ELD all have low throw angle.
In fact, I've been using Nittaku Z2/Glayzer for quite a while, and these are considered to have medium-low and medium throws respectively. And yet, I was able to clear the net effortlessly after a short adjustment with Z2/Glayzer.
Meanwhile, the Evolution series often end up catching the net no matter what

but this has more to do with technique. evolution rubbers are very fast and dynamic even for modern standards, so if your acceleration is not good enough you can't get enough grip on the rubber for it to create an arc before it bounces of your blade and what you get is just speed without spin, hence the low arc. as i said very good players with good technique can create crazy high throw arcs with that rubbers. i sadly can't that is the reason i play vega x instead of mx-p. but to call it low throw is misleading in that case

 

[Angerer]

but this has more to do with technique. evolution rubbers are very fast and dynamic even for modern standards, so if your acceleration is not good enough you can't get enough grip on the rubber for it to create an arc before it bounces of your blade and what you get is just speed without spin, hence the low arc. as i said very good players with good technique can create crazy high throw arcs with that rubbers. i sadly can't that is the reason i play vega x instead of mx-p. but to call it low throw is misleading in that case

I can't necessarily say that EL-D or MX-P were just fast without spin. The spin was good, it's just the ball clipped the net very often, which is rarity with such rubbers as Glayzer or Dignics 05, let's say.

 

[Tyce]

I would absolutely love to see scientific experiments to determine the throw angle in controlled conditions. A feeding robot, a hitting robot and set amounts of force and velocity.

I believe such experiments would show that throw angle differences are minimal, if even reproducible at all, between rubbers of similar hardness and type (tensor, hybrid, Chinese).

In the end, the angle your bat is in up to the point of release is what's determining the trajectory of the ball.
Some rubbers are more inviting to play with a closed brushing angle, usually because they have great grip and good sideways (tangential) catapult effect. That doesn't mean it's magically using a different angle, the angle changes are done by the player.

So for your low throw angle issue, you could try to adjust your stroke, making the contact less downward (open up the bat), and more engaging of the rubber to create the tangential catapult. It's really not the rubber at fault here, you're using it suboptimally.

 

[Yuomay]

I think throw-angle is by no means a stand-alone property of a rubber-sponge combo.
- Technical ability
- Racket
- Ball speed maybe
- Humidity maybe

 

[Tiz]

I would absolutely love to see scientific experiments to determine the throw angle in controlled conditions. A feeding robot, a hitting robot and set amounts of force and velocity.

I believe such experiments would show that throw angle differences are minimal, if even reproducible at all, between rubbers of similar hardness and type (tensor, hybrid, Chinese).

In the end, the angle your bat is in up to the point of release is what's determining the trajectory of the ball.
Some rubbers are more inviting to play with a closed brushing angle, usually because they have great grip and good sideways (tangential) catapult effect. That doesn't mean it's magically using a different angle, the angle changes are done by the player.

So for your low throw angle issue, you could try to adjust your stroke, making the contact less downward (open up the bat), and more engaging of the rubber to create the tangential catapult. It's really not the rubber at fault here, you're using it suboptimally.

Here you go. Quite a difference between Dignics 09c and Fastarc G1

 

[Tyce]

Fair, but this is, as it says, a bounce test. It tells more about spin sensitivity of the topsheet and even then, the results are not showing much consistency.
For example, the low rpm result of Dignics is lower, while the trend seems to suggest it should be higher.
The after contact numbers for G1 show quite an outlier as well. This research simply needs more data to get anywhere close to consistent results.
With a bit of assumption about the outliers, I would actually say that the results are very similar.

What you want (or, what I want) is sufficient force to simulate active contact, not a passive block. But more important than that, measure 300 balls, not 3. The robot itself will give inconsistent balls even if they are relatively close, but you need a good bunch of them to create a reliable trendline.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Yes, MXP, MXD, and for instance, ELD all have low throw angle.
In fact, I've been using Nittaku Z2/Glayzer for quite a while, and these are considered to have medium-low and medium throws respectively. And yet, I was able to clear the net effortlessly after a short adjustment with Z2/Glayzer.
Meanwhile, the Evolution series often end up catching the net no matter what

Yes my experience lines up closely with yours. I played a bunch of matches today with MXD, and I just can't use it. I have to pull back all my bh shots because I'm afraid they will go into the net. Very uncomfortable.

 

[jk1980]

i am wondering about the measured values, because they seem incredibly low.

2900 rpm equals 48,3 rotations per second which is a good value for an underspin serve, but for an incoming topspin ball it is incredibly low.
Tbh i never have seen a ball with less than 90 rps whenever i recorded topspins with spinsight. other sources have said that professionals reach about 150 - 180 rps on topspin. This is also wildly different to what this video shows.
We can now argue that these are different measuring instruments, but i can't fathom that the video detailing half the amount of topspin than one would be expecting with spinsight seems like a very unrealistic scenario. I don't even know if i could setup the robot to shoot out a topspin ball with that low amount of spin.