STEP to ALC or ZLC blade from Butterfly Petr Korbel (Made in Japan)

[Mods]

Hello!

Right now I'm playing with Butterfly Petr Korbel (Made in Japan) and I really like it, fantastic blade in all aspects! But for now I'm looking something modern and with better sweet spot, but also with close to all wood feeling and good control like Petr Korbel blade.

In my opinion few interesting blades with inner fiber technologies:
Butterfly Apolonia ZLC
Butterfly Harimoto Tomokazu Innerforce ZLC
Butterfly Harimoto Tomokazu Innerforce ALC
Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC

So, it would be great to hear reviews (recommendation) and comparisons between these blades.

Thanks a lot!

 

[Lula]

But why do you want to change? because of the sweetspot? I mean what are you missing now?

I think ttgearlab have compared some inner carbon blades to all wood blades: https://ttgearlab.wordpress.com/
Would be good if you could find someone with an inner carbon blade and compare. Soo difficult to know how it feels from text and the internet.

I think ALC would be more similar to all wood? I have only tried the Harimoto ALC some strokes. Did not feel so fast.

Hope someone with more knowledge and experience can help you.

 

[lodro]

i most definitely am not the one with the great knowledge and experience but i support Lula's suggestions.
What i can contribute is that I have played with a lot of wooden blades and then changed to the BFY ALC Innerforce and now also
play with ZLC Innerforce blades. If a hack like myself can have no problems adjusting from wood to composite blades, there really can not be that much difference.

Having said that, it is always nice to give yourself a treat and buy a nice new blade 😁

 

[NDH]

This Butterfly blade matrix is always a good reference point.

In terms of speed, you want to be looking at the "Reaction Property".

The Korbel is just under "11", and virtually the same speed as the Harimoto ALC.

it's hard to give "blind" online advice - I have no idea how good you are, and how you currently play with the Korbel.

Do you loop? Punch? Drive? Block? Chop? What's your game like and what areas do you feel you need to improve?

If you are playing well with the Korbel, the 2 main advantages of the Harimoto ALC will be:

1. Bigger head size makes it a dream to block with.
2. You'll find it's a similar speed to the Korbel, but has an extra gear or two if you want to up the pace.

The main downside will be the added weight from the blade (bigger head size) and the rubbers (as they will also be larger).

I know Carbon blades seem to be the answer...... People see their favourite players use them, and they are the blades that get the most marketing attention...... But unless you are good..... really good.... There is more downside to upside for most people.

 

[SamTheMan]

1. Bigger head size makes it a dream to block with.


The main downside will be the added weight from the blade (bigger head size) and the rubbers (as they will also be larger).

I agree with your thoughts on carbon blades downsides for most people.
I just wanted to point out that the Korbel and the Harimoto has the exact same headsize, 158*152 mm. The Harimoto ALC is pretty much a Korbel with inner ALC.

 

[dajdosta]

Nice graphics.
Maybe this can stop people arguing over which is better: TBS, TB ALC or Viscaria.
Butterfly says it's the same blade.

 

[NDH]

I agree with your thoughts on carbon blades downsides for most people.
I just wanted to point out that the Korbel and the Harimoto has the exact same headsize, 158*152 mm. The Harimoto ALC is pretty much a Korbel with inner ALC.

Ohhhhh really! How did I not know that!

If that's the case, The Harimoto ALC will be a blade to upgrade to, purely because you *want* it, rather than the added performance it may offer.

That being said, I often buy blades because I *want* them, so it's a perfectly good excuse in my book!

Plus, if I wanted something very close to the Korbel in a different blade (maybe a teeeeeny tiiiiiiiiny increase in speed), I'd get the Harimoto ALC.

 

[Deep74]

Hello!

Right now I'm playing with Butterfly Petr Korbel (Made in Japan) and I really like it, fantastic blade in all aspects! But for now I'm looking something modern and with better sweet spot, but also with close to all wood feeling and good control like Petr Korbel blade.

In my opinion few interesting blades with inner fiber technologies:
Butterfly Apolonia ZLC
Butterfly Harimoto Tomokazu Innerforce ZLC
Butterfly Harimoto Tomokazu Innerforce ALC
Butterfly Innerforce Layer ALC

So, it would be great to hear reviews (recommendation) and comparisons between these blades.

Thanks a lot!

Hello….

right I had used the Apolonia for 3 years before starting to test other blades during covid time namely ALC. I moved from all wood blade to Apolonia as my first carbon blade and reason was 2 players at my club were using it so I tried it and liked it, plus it’s Innerforce one and everyone else at my club were using outer carbon. I loved the Apolonia during the time I used it but during covid times I felt the need to try ALC blade so I bought a Innerforce layer ALC. Control was great but compared to Apolonia I found it too slow. If I had moved from a all wood blade to it I would have loved it but from Apolonia it felt like a downgrade in speed which I didn’t need. I then got myself a Harimoto ALC and have to admit the control was truly amazing!! Top spin, blocking especially felt far far more stable than Apolonia. But for me only downside of HM was it felt slow away from the table, I found the Apolonia had more zip away from the table but the HM felt more controlled and stable. After trying a Mizutani Jun ZLC which is faster than Apolonia I noticed that blocking with Apolonia is actually a bit unstable. While it was only carbon blade I had used it felt great, but after testing others I felt it bit unpredictable. Specially blocking I found all other blades far stable. I have currently settled on Lin Gaoyuan ALC which is same construction as Viscaria and it’s so stable. Close or away from table, blocking countering, touch all feels great. I think ALC is more stable than ZLC and I would say easier to control and I own both the Lin Gaoyuan and Mizutani. Mizutani has more speed but Lin has more control.

if you are going from korbel to carbon then I would suggest either Innerforce ALC or Harimoto ALC but bear in mind HM is head heavy and heavier blade than the Innerforce. So if u want light one go for Innerforce if u don’t mind heavy then go for Harimoto as Harimoto is also a very stunning blade. For first carbon I would definitely go for ALC over ZLC. My opinion and advice only…,

 

[Michael Zhuang]

What does Vibration property mean? My understanding is a blade with more vibration is better because it gives more feedback to your hand. But why does the chart show that faster/stiffer blades such as SZLC have more vibration property than flexier blades such as Innerforce ALC?

 

[dajdosta]

What does Vibration property mean? My understanding is a blade with more vibration is better because it gives more feedback to your hand. But why does the chart show that faster/stiffer blades such as SZLC have more vibration property than flexier blades such as Innerforce ALC?

From Butterfly site:

[h1]What is the vibration property?[/h1]

The vibration property is the quantified value illustrating the feeling of a blade on impact by measuring and quantifying the vibration speed. A low vibration property, in general, signifies slower vibration on ball contact and denotes a blade with a softer touch. A high vibration property, in general, means faster vibration of the blade on contact with the ball and indicates a blade with a harder feel.

 

[DukeGaGa]

Why choose when you can have both. 😉 There are XIOM AZX and AZXi twins which has ZLC on one side and ALC on the other. There's also the JOOLA Vyzaryz Trinity, which mixes the ALC and ZLC fibers together.

Or, if you prefer a more woody feel, CNF is also a pretty good choice, e.g. Butterfly Revoldia CNF.

 

[Mods]

Thanks a lot for everyone! Many great comments and information!

XIOM AZXi, Hugo HAL and Victas ZX-Gear IN blades also looks interesting, but in my opinion at this moment Butterfly product looks better and more interesting even if the price is higher. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but I have friends who tried many blades and finally come back to Butterfly and always said that Butterfly is better.

Anyway, would be great to compare these all blades with Victas ZX-Gear IN. Maybe someone have experiences with Victas blades

 

[DukeGaGa]

I completely disagree to say one brand is just better than all the others, and I’m pretty sure a lot of people here would say the same.

If you’re only thinking about inner layer composite blades, then w968 is arguably the best. It also costs way more than any Butterfly blades you normally see, so don’t use price as a factor of deciding who makes the best blades. You need to find a blade that suits you, not find a blade that’s the “best”, there’s no such thing. A blade that Ma Long uses and thinks is best for him, isn’t the same as what Fan Zhendong thinks, otherwise they’ll be using the same one.

If the materials used to construct the blade are the same, then those blade wills have similar properties even though they might come from different manufacturers, this is why we can categorize them like how we do today. Like 5 ply wood blades usually provides very clear feel of the ball, but lacks power. Outer layered fiber blades usually have more speed but less feel than inner layered fiber blades. I think this is also why you think you want an inner layered fiber blade.

Anyways, I’ve tried quite a few blades over the past few years (see here https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...lades-(30-)-and-rubbers-(lost-count-)-US-only), and all I want to say is Butterfly blades are not special magical blades that have powers all the other brands don’t. Have an open mind.

P.S. I think you might want to take a look at this https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/showthread.php?19018-SDC-Handmade-Blades .

 

[NDH]

I’ve said many times….. But Butterfly are the best at marketing, and it’s not even close. They have captured the market in a similar way that Apple has. “High end”, good quality products that are desirable. Growing up, I always saw Butterfly as the premium brand, and whilst I’ve used a lot of brands now, I still find Butterfly to have the better designs and quality (design is very subjective though). For the vast majority of people, using a blade that makes you “feel” good, is probably more useful than analysing the wood layers and other technical aspects! Look good. Feel good. Play good!

 

[Zwill]

Thanks a lot for everyone! Many great comments and information!

XIOM AZXi, Hugo HAL and Victas ZX-Gear IN blades also looks interesting, but in my opinion at this moment Butterfly product looks better and more interesting even if the price is higher. I don’t know maybe I’m wrong, but I have friends who tried many blades and finally come back to Butterfly and always said that Butterfly is better.

Anyway, would be great to compare these all blades with Victas ZX-Gear IN. Maybe someone have experiences with Victas blades

From the Victas lineup I would probably chose the Pitchford blade. That is an ignored little gem for some reason. Sure Pitchford is not the most hyped up player out there but the blade is really nice. It's also a limba top ply blade just like the Korbel.
If you want something even faster I'd look at the Ovtcharov ALC blade. Inner ALC blades won't be so much faster than a Korbel tbh. The Ovtcharov will be for sure, and it should be better in close table play than normal inner ALC types that are thinner.

I guess DHS HL 5x should not be ignored either, but it wouldn't be a massive speed increase over a Korbel (maybe you only need a 10-15% speed increase, then it's great). Despite what anyone says about quality, DHS make the best limba top ply blades. Best play, finish and quality. Better than BTY and better than the rest. BTY excels in using koto and of course their limba not bad or anything just DHS limba is so freaking nice.

 

[jamiebtt]

From the Victas lineup I would probably chose the Pitchford blade. That is an ignored little gem for some reason. Sure Pitchford is not the most hyped up player out there but the blade is really nice. It's also a limba top ply blade just like the Korbel.
If you want something even faster I'd look at the Ovtcharov ALC blade. Inner ALC blades won't be so much faster than a Korbel tbh. The Ovtcharov will be for sure, and it should be better in close table play than normal inner ALC types that are thinner.

I guess DHS HL 5x should not be ignored either, but it wouldn't be a massive speed increase over a Korbel (maybe you only need a 10-15% speed increase, then it's great). Despite what anyone says about quality, DHS make the best limba top ply blades. Best play, finish and quality. Better than BTY and better than the rest. BTY excels in using koto and of course their limba not bad or anything just DHS limba is so freaking nice.

Ovtcharov is an inner ALC

 

[Zwill]

Ovtcharov is an inner ALC

I know, but it is thicker than traditional Innerfoce AlC. Better from close to the table as it will be more stable and possibly even faster.
Just look at Ovtcharov's actual play, he doesn't barge an inch for space. He is one of the most stubborn players for keeping space.

 

[jamiebtt]

I know, but it is thicker than traditional Innerfoce AlC. Better from close to the table as it will be more stable and possibly even faster.
Just look at Ovtcharov's actual play, he doesn't barge an inch for space. He is one of the most stubborn players for keeping space.

Ah yeh true

 

[Mods]

One more thing about Dignics rubbers on the Korbel (made in Japan) blade. I'm just curious (because I never tried Dignics, only heard many comments about that), how does Korbel perform with this rubbers, does someone have any experiences? Which series of Dignics is most suitable for Korbel?

Thanks!

 

[DukeGaGa]

One more thing about Dignics rubbers on the Korbel (made in Japan) blade. I'm just curious (because I never tried Dignics, only heard many comments about that), how does Korbel perform with this rubbers, does someone have any experiences? Which series of Dignics is most suitable for Korbel?

Thanks!

Have you tried Tenergy before? Dignics is similar to Tenergy, just a bit more in every aspect, including the price.