Looking for a custom setup advice

[mocker88]

Here are a few videos of me playing. I am in a black T-shirt.

Forehand counter:

Backhand counter:

Forehand topspin:

What kind of custom racket should I go for?

I wouldn't change anything in what I suggested before, so perhaps a blade like Sanwei Accumulator S or Haitian Y-1. Rubbers like Yinhe Big Dipper 38deg (FH) and perhaps Palio AK47 Yellow (BH). Something like that would certainly work good for you.

 

[turbozed]

Here are a few videos of me playing. I am in a black T-shirt.

Forehand counter:

Backhand counter:

Forehand topspin:

What kind of custom racket should I go for?

Tbh, at this beginner level, the setup probably doesn't matter too much as long as it's comfortable and you get a lot of feedback from it. For me, feedback means being able to feel the ball on the blade/rubber, and a combination that rewards good shots and allows you to make full body strokes.

If you want to become an offensive player, then I'd suggest using harder sponged Chinese training rubber. There are multiple reasons it's worked better than softer bouncy rubber for me.

The first is that the lack of low end speed means you can have more confidence to perform a stroke with the proper weight transfer and full power. With bouncy rubber, I was always performing a partial stroke because I'd fear the ball flying off. So I'd slow down my arm swing and try to guide the ball instead of hitting the ball. With harder rubber, your ball will be slow and poor quality unless you get enough power into it to engage the sponge. You will hear a loud crack and the ball quality will be much higher when you do perform a proper full body stroke. This feels great and is a good reward stimulus for your body to remember to do next time (feedback).

The lack of low end speed might be useful for learning footwork as well, since it gives you more time to get into position by slowing down the ball with lower power strokes. You can ratchet up the speed and intensity slowly as you get more consistent. When using bouncier rubber, you may be tempted to just use your arm power during footwork drills. My coach has a beginner student using a very fast setup (Tenergy rubber) and this student hasn't learned how to properly weight shift and use his lower body to hit a powerful shot.

Finally, from your technique videos, it looks like you still have many many hours of training time (maybe a year or a few years) to put in before cheaper rubber becomes a hinderance for you. If you know you're going to be putting in hundreds of hours of table time to get to a good level, it makes more sense not to spend $60-80 per rubber change (both sides) for Euro/Japanese tensor rubber when you can spend $10-$30 on stuff like Yinhe Mercury 2, Loki Rxton (1, 3, 5), etc. and have it work just as well (if not better).

I would suggest a good OFF- blade to use with the training rubber, however. I've played with the YSE and Donic Appelgren with hard Chinese rubber and the combination feels extremely dead and slow. Those ALL/ALL+ blades almost require you to buy expensive bouncy rubbers to compensate for their low speed.

There is a paradigm on the English speaking forums where beginners are pushed to slower $40-$60 ALL+ blades that require $60-$80 worth of beginner rubber to speed up the blade with tensor technology when a cheaper OFF- blade for $20 and rubbers that cost $10-$30 would work just as well (and would be easier to upgrade later). I haven't been able to find any good reason for it.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

I am a beginner player playing with a Palio Master 3.0 premade racket. It has an all-wood 5-ply blade with cj8000 rubbers on both sides.

I can play counter on forehand and backhand decently well and am learning to topspin on both sides. I am pretty fit and like to move quickly and push myself physically.

I am looking to move to a custom setup that will help me improve my technique and that I can use for a long time. I understand that developing a good game isn't just a decent setup but quality practice with a good coach and playing matches.

I am considering going for a Donic Appelgreen Allplay blade with DHS Hurricane 3 on the forehand and Yasaka Mark V on the backhand. Is this a good setup for someone like me?

I have shortlisted the following blades:
1. Donic Appelgreen Allplay
2. Yasaka Sweden Extra
3. Stiga Allround Classic

Would you recommend the Yasaka or the Stiga blade instead?

BTY Falcima blade with Rozena on both side or G1 on FH with Rozena on BH.

 

[turbozed]

BTY Falcima blade with Rozena on both side or G1 on FH with Rozena on BH.

Not trying to be argumentative here, but why are you suggesting a $150 setup to a beginner?

Also, why are you suggesting the Falcima specifically? As far as I'm aware, you dont actually play with one and the only forum member here that actually did put in time with one here abandoned it for a Xiom Offensive S.

It's clear the OP is a beginner from his videos posted. What is the point of having him spend that much money on blades and intermediate to advanced rubbers when it's clear he needs to put in months or years of training for his technique to even possibly get any value out of those rubbers?

I'm not singling you out here, I just wanted to understand the thought process since it's an issue that's really puzzled me for a while. I'm also a beginner with a lot to learn, so I'm aware that I could be dead wrong about this, but from my limited experience OP can get a setup for $40 that might work even better for him. I switched from a $200 setup to a $40 setup myself.

 

[JJ Ng]

I watched the video. He is pretty good. It is evident he has gotten some coaching. Forehand drives and backhand blocks look good. He is tall. He needs to squat down, like way lower. Forehand loop, more forearm snap and better weight transfer or rotation of the waist.

I agree with no Butterfly. No need for that set-up yet.

I would also argue against ALL or ALL + blade. He is ready for OFF - blades, all wood (no carbon or composite). I would recommend either Tibhar Stratus Power Wood ($46 on TT11) or Tibhar Samsonov Alpha ($36 on TT11). Both are good OFF - blade with good wood feel to the blade. If he gets a bunch of people together, he can shave 30% off on either of those two blades.

Rubbers, I just don't know where he is sourcing his equipment from. If he has access to Aliexpress, then Yinhe Big Dipper Yinhe, Mercury 2, and Loki Rxton 3 or 5 (not 1 since 1 is for beginner) all sounds good. At 2.0 mm or max. I have not played any of those so I woll trust that other people here who have tried it have a good idea.

If I were to advise you on the rubbers I have tried before, then I would recommend Sanwei Target National black max on the forehand (it is Chinese rubber but has a lot of control and touch to it) and Nittaku Fastarc C-1 red 2.0mm on the backhand. I have tried these rubbers before. I highly recommend them. Those are my two cents. C-1 is $45 a sheet on TT11 but if he buys it with his friends, they can knock 30% off. TT11 does not carry Sanwei so if he wants to source from TT11 solely, then I recommend Fastarc C-1 black 2.0mm on the forehand side as well. The Fastarc series really last for a long time; yes they are a bit more expensive than Mark V but I think they are worth it.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Not trying to be argumentative here, but why are you suggesting a $150 setup to a beginner?

Also, why are you suggesting the Falcima specifically? As far as I'm aware, you dont actually play with one and the only forum member here that actually did put in time with one here abandoned it for a Xiom Offensive S.

It's clear the OP is a beginner from his videos posted. What is the point of having him spend that much money on blades and intermediate to advanced rubbers when it's clear he needs to put in months or years of training for his technique to even possibly get any value out of those rubbers?

I'm not singling you out here, I just wanted to understand the thought process since it's an issue that's really puzzled me for a while. I'm also a beginner with a lot to learn, so I'm aware that I could be dead wrong about this, but from my limited experience OP can get a setup for $40 that might work even better for him. I switched from a $200 setup to a $40 setup myself.

You requested my train of thoughts. Here goes:

1. It did not occur to me that Falcima is an expensive set-up. So sorry for that. In the club that I play with, I come into contact with a lot of BTY fanboi(s) that I have become immuned to the price. Dignics is the in-vogue rubber with the regulars. We have around 40 plus registered members and about 60% are active players ( more than once a week ) and by golly, I would say majority are also BTY fanboi(s). So naturally, Falcima is to me an entry level blade for noobs. I am the product of the environment that I am in and sometimes I forget that TTD is an international forum with diverse players. Sorry about that my friend.

2. I had BTY Primorac in the past and this is where I formed my opinion that BTY product is of top-notch quality. During that time, Falcima was not available yet. I respect BTY craftsmanship through owning the Primorac. Hence I am biased with Falcima. Before Falcima, Primorac & Korbel is the de-facto noobie blade from BTY.

3. I am aware that there are some relatively cheaper rubber from China but the thing is I am not trained to use hard and tacky Chinese rubber, hence I would be out of place to talk or recommend it. So I have to limit myself either to ESN or BTY product where I have personal experience.

4. To recap, from my personal experience and biasness, Falcima + G1 / Rozena is not expensive for me relative to what I am using and the people around me using. Sorry for the bias.

5. I can only talk about the products that I have personally used before or those around me have used before.

Thank you for your attention my friend.

 

[JJ Ng]

You requested my train of thoughts. Here goes:

1. It did not occur to me that Falcima is an expensive set-up. So sorry for that. In the club that I play with, I come into contact with a lot of BTY fanboi(s) that I have become immuned to the price. Dignics is the in-vogue rubber with the regulars. We have around 40 plus registered members and about 60% are active players ( more than once a week ) and by golly, I would say majority are also BTY fanboi(s). So naturally, Falcima is to me an entry level blade for noobs. I am the product of the environment that I am in and sometimes I forget that TTD is an international forum with diverse players. Sorry about that my friend.

2. I had BTY Primorac in the past and this is where I formed my opinion that BTY product is of top-notch quality. During that time, Falcima was not available yet. I respect BTY craftsmanship through owning the Primorac. Hence I am biased with Falcima. Before Falcima, Primorac & Korbel is the de-facto noobie blade from BTY.

3. I am aware that there are some relatively cheaper rubber from China but the thing is I am not trained to use hard and tacky Chinese rubber, hence I would be out of place to talk or recommend it. So I have to limit myself either to ESN or BTY product where I have personal experience.

4. To recap, from my personal experience and biasness, Falcima + G1 / Rozena is not expensive for me relative to what I am using and the people around me using. Sorry for the bias.

5. I can only talk about the products that I have personally used before or those around me have used before.

Thank you for your attention my friend.

I would not blame you.

One new player, he was recently set up at the club with Falcima that has Tenergy 64 fx on both sides. I played with him the other day and I kept my mouth shut. He does not have the form or the experience to play such set-up. But he was very proud that he spent $225+ for that set-up. I thought about giving him my blade to try but my set-up will probably be "too slow" for him. So I just shut up and move on.

 

[turbozed]

You requested my train of thoughts. Here goes:

1. It did not occur to me that Falcima is an expensive set-up. So sorry for that. In the club that I play with, I come into contact with a lot of BTY fanboi(s) that I have become immuned to the price. Dignics is the in-vogue rubber with the regulars. We have around 40 plus registered members and about 60% are active players ( more than once a week ) and by golly, I would say majority are also BTY fanboi(s). So naturally, Falcima is to me an entry level blade for noobs. I am the product of the environment that I am in and sometimes I forget that TTD is an international forum with diverse players. Sorry about that my friend.

2. I had BTY Primorac in the past and this is where I formed my opinion that BTY product is of top-notch quality. During that time, Falcima was not available yet. I respect BTY craftsmanship through owning the Primorac. Hence I am biased with Falcima. Before Falcima, Primorac & Korbel is the de-facto noobie blade from BTY.

3. I am aware that there are some relatively cheaper rubber from China but the thing is I am not trained to use hard and tacky Chinese rubber, hence I would be out of place to talk or recommend it. So I have to limit myself either to ESN or BTY product where I have personal experience.

4. To recap, from my personal experience and biasness, Falcima + G1 / Rozena is not expensive for me relative to what I am using and the people around me using. Sorry for the bias.

5. I can only talk about the products that I have personally used before or those around me have used before.

Thank you for your attention my friend.

Thanks for not taking any offense and being thorough about answering my questions.

To be honest, for the amount of time I spend practicing and thinking about TT, a couple hundred bucks here and there on equipment feels like a small amount of money. But training in Vietnam made me realize that not everyone has the same means as I do. Here, $100 is a whole year's worth of club fees, or a month worth of good coaching.

I learned through experience that cost correlates with finish and quality, but that it doesn't really track with suitability. Butterfly and Nittaku produce high quality blades and rubbers. No doubt about that. But I've formed the opinion that those products are for people who already have played for a while and have a good idea what they want from their equipment and are willing to pay more for higher level quality gear.

I don't think that beginners should be pushed into the premium TT gear environment though. First, it can get expensive. Falcima + G1 / Rozena is around $150. Let's say 3 rubber changes in a year at $75 each time and you're looking at $300 for equipment. My setup costs $90 after 3 rubber changes. And I think my setup is more appropriate for developing the style I want than tensor/spring rubbers. So the Butterfly/Nittaku setup not only costs over 3x as much, but could arguably be worse for development (e.g. the ZJK ALC and Tenergy beginner I mentioned earlier).

I actually really wanted to like using Nittaku more. Bought Acoustic and Fastarc. Bought a nice racket case from Nittaku. I really resisted accepting that I played better with cheaper and not-so-premium-feeling equipment. I'm not trying to push people into the value training equipment environment, but some beginners don't even realize it exists, so I try to at least make it known that it does and is a very good (if not much better) alternative.

 

[Gozo Aruna]

acoustic + g1 is also good. No issue with that.

 

[JJ Ng]

Thanks for not taking any offense and being thorough about answering my questions.

To be honest, for the amount of time I spend practicing and thinking about TT, a couple hundred bucks here and there on equipment feels like a small amount of money. But training in Vietnam made me realize that not everyone has the same means as I do. Here, $100 is a whole year's worth of club fees, or a month worth of good coaching.

I learned through experience that cost correlates with finish and quality, but that it doesn't really track with suitability. Butterfly and Nittaku produce high quality blades and rubbers. No doubt about that. But I've formed the opinion that those products are for people who already have played for a while and have a good idea what they want from their equipment and are willing to pay more for higher level quality gear.

I don't think that beginners should be pushed into the premium TT gear environment though. First, it can get expensive. Falcima + G1 / Rozena is around $150. Let's say 3 rubber changes in a year at $75 each time and you're looking at $300 for equipment. My setup costs $90 after 3 rubber changes. And I think my setup is more appropriate for developing the style I want than tensor/spring rubbers. So the Butterfly/Nittaku setup not only costs over 3x as much, but could arguably be worse for development (e.g. the ZJK ALC and Tenergy beginner I mentioned earlier).

I actually really wanted to like using Nittaku more. Bought Acoustic and Fastarc. Bought a nice racket case from Nittaku. I really resisted accepting that I played better with cheaper and not-so-premium-feeling equipment. I'm not trying to push people into the value training equipment environment, but some beginners don't even realize it exists, so I try to at least make it known that it does and is a very good (if not much better) alternative.

I would not put Nittaku in the same price premium category as Butterfly but I get what you mean.

I have loved my H3 neo commerical for many years and I have been spoiled by slightly less then $20 a sheet by buying with 30% discount from TT11.

To me, my Nittaku G-1 on the backhand side is like a splurge.

However, G-1 just works well on my backhand! Have I flipped my paddle over and play G-1 on my forehand? Yes, but it is not the same as Chinese rubber.

I can see why some people get addicted to T05 if they have the same love affair with their equipment as I do. But if so, yeah, they better change their T05 only once every 2 years. and not 3 times a year.....

 

[sportslover]

I watched the video. He is pretty good. It is evident he has gotten some coaching. Forehand drives and backhand blocks look good. He is tall. He needs to squat down, like way lower. Forehand loop, more forearm snap and better weight transfer or rotation of the waist.

I agree with no Butterfly. No need for that set-up yet.

I would also argue against ALL or ALL + blade. He is ready for OFF - blades, all wood (no carbon or composite). I would recommend either Tibhar Stratus Power Wood ($46 on TT11) or Tibhar Samsonov Alpha ($36 on TT11). Both are good OFF - blade with good wood feel to the blade. If he gets a bunch of people together, he can shave 30% off on either of those two blades.

Rubbers, I just don't know where he is sourcing his equipment from. If he has access to Aliexpress, then Yinhe Big Dipper Yinhe, Mercury 2, and Loki Rxton 3 or 5 (not 1 since 1 is for beginner) all sounds good. At 2.0 mm or max. I have not played any of those so I woll trust that other people here who have tried it have a good idea.

If I were to advise you on the rubbers I have tried before, then I would recommend Sanwei Target National black max on the forehand (it is Chinese rubber but has a lot of control and touch to it) and Nittaku Fastarc C-1 red 2.0mm on the backhand. I have tried these rubbers before. I highly recommend them. Those are my two cents. C-1 is $45 a sheet on TT11 but if he buys it with his friends, they can knock 30% off. TT11 does not carry Sanwei so if he wants to source from TT11 solely, then I recommend Fastarc C-1 black 2.0mm on the forehand side as well. The Fastarc series really last for a long time; yes they are a bit more expensive than Mark V but I think they are worth it.

You brought up a very nice point about my forehand loop/topspin - you've recommended more forearm snap.

I fail to understand how to use the forearm and the elbow joint in forehand loops. My whole focus is on using my shoulder and whatever core rotation I create while doing a forehand loop. The elbow, if it bends towards the end of my stroke is a result of momentum.

Can someone explain the use of the forearm and elbow in forehand loops or point me to a video where this is explained?

 

[latej]

You brought up a very nice point about my forehand loop/topspin - you've recommended more forearm snap.

I fail to understand how to use the forearm and the elbow joint in forehand loops. My whole focus is on using my shoulder and whatever core rotation I create while doing a forehand loop. The elbow, if it bends towards the end of my stroke is a result of momentum.

Can someone explain the use of the forearm and elbow in forehand loops or point me to a video where this is explained?

You can see here a nice comparison of TB and ML technique. Both have great technique, but arguably TB uses more of a forearm snap, or perhaps he just uses it differently.

For me personally there is a danger in focusing on the forearm snap, because it is driven by muscles. Focusing on this muscular action puts me into more tension. I'd prefer the stroke be more swing-driven, rather than muscular-driven. Even though obviously both play a crucial role. So, I don't care about it much, also because I think caring about the positioning/stance/movement before the stroke is 100x more important.

But I also want to mention that I know a player, who plays with more-like TB's technique and has enormous FH spin.

 

[JJ Ng]

You can see here a nice comparison of TB and ML technique. Both have great technique, but arguably TB uses more of a forearm snap, or perhaps he just uses it differently.

For me personally there is a danger in focusing on the forearm snap, because it is driven by muscles. Focusing on this muscular action puts me into more tension. I'd prefer the stroke be more swing-driven, rather than muscular-driven. Even though obviously both play a crucial role. So, I don't care about it much, also because I think caring about the positioning/stance/movement before the stroke is 100x more important.

But I also want to mention that I know a player, who plays with more-like TB's technique and has enormous FH spin.

That's why some people like Euro/Jap rubber on the forehand while others like chinese rubber on the forehand.

I was taught, growing up, by my chinese coach that the most important joint is the elbow that allows your forearm to swing. We started with forearm swinging only while keeping our elbow close to the body, both in forehand drive and in forehand loop. Once we are good with that, then we add waist rotation to that. Then once we master that, we added shoulder power/movement to the stroke. Then the final piece is the wrist.

Wrist movement should only be added last and only when the players are more advanced, because any wrist movement can change the bat angle greatly. So you aim to learn how to use your elbow/forearm properly. Then learn how to add waist rotation to the elbow/forearm so they are in synchrony. Then you add shoulder to bring more power out of your forehand drive/loop. Wrist snapping in the final piece.

I am neutral about wrist snapping. If you did all the above steps right, your forehand loop will be very very good already. Adding wrist snapping is optional, depending on the player physique and body kinetics.

I am also the type that if you can transfer your weight from the back leg to the front leg,, that will be great. But I feel that waist rotation, done properly, will be powerful enough.

Remember we are not aiming for everyone to become the next Ma Long or Timo Boll. We want to have fun and not kill our body either.

 

[latej]

Remember we are not aiming for everyone to become the next Ma Long or Timo Boll. We want to have fun and not kill our body either.

Hmm, I just wanted to give sportslover some food for thought about his question. My intention is not to create an army of MLs and TBs. Yet. Maybe in 2029 we can have that, I'd like to have my own personal Wang Chuqin as a training partner. HS, that will be great. What a rosy future!

 

[superbackhand]

I am a beginner player playing with a Palio Master 3.0 premade racket. It has an all-wood 5-ply blade with cj8000 rubbers on both sides.

I can play counter on forehand and backhand decently well and am learning to topspin on both sides. I am pretty fit and like to move quickly and push myself physically.

I am looking to move to a custom setup that will help me improve my technique and that I can use for a long time. I understand that developing a good game isn't just a decent setup but quality practice with a good coach and playing matches.

I am considering going for a Donic Appelgreen Allplay blade with DHS Hurricane 3 on the forehand and Yasaka Mark V on the backhand. Is this a good setup for someone like me?

I have shortlisted the following blades:
1. Donic Appelgreen Allplay
2. Yasaka Sweden Extra
3. Stiga Allround Classic

Would you recommend the Yasaka or the Stiga blade instead?

equipment is like a horse - you want a slow horse that listens to you, goes where you want to go rather than a fast but goes on its own path

 

[JJ Ng]

equipment is like a horse - you want a slow horse that listens to you, goes where you want to go rather than a fast but goes on its own path

Good analogy. We are amateur players here. We are not here to compete in the Kentucky derby. we are here to win and enjoy ourselves along the way. A slow horse that is in sycn with you will get you further in life and get you more enjoyment than otherwise.

 

[Choosikick]

You brought up a very nice point about my forehand loop/topspin - you've recommended more forearm snap.

I fail to understand how to use the forearm and the elbow joint in forehand loops. My whole focus is on using my shoulder and whatever core rotation I create while doing a forehand loop. The elbow, if it bends towards the end of my stroke is a result of momentum.

Can someone explain the use of the forearm and elbow in forehand loops or point me to a video where this is explained?

You can imagine that you are wiping the windshield of a car in front of you along the trajectory as its wipers do. Thus, at the end of the movement, you will add with your forearm

 

[Wakkibatty]

Re: the OP -- here's my two cents worth:

It is ten times harder to unlearn a bad habit, or correct bad technique, than it is to learn good habits and technique from the very beginning.

Bad habits give you a lifetime's worth of frustration. Good ones give you a lifetime's worth of pleasure.

Bad habits and bad technique are the devil in disguise -- they should be avoided at all costs, and eradicated from your being with extreme prejudice the very second they arrive.

The number one cause of developing bad habits, is bad equipment -- typically this means a set-up that's too fast.

Beginners with fast equipment typically start altering their swing, simply to keep the ball on the table. This is the last thing you want.

This is why I always say what matters most for beginners, is control.

Control provides consistency, and consistency is KING in this sport, regardless of what level you're playing at.

Your best serves, best attacking or defending strokes, best blocks, best footwork, your strongest side ...all these things are USELESS if the ball does not land where you need it, at least 85% of the time. (ie: by this I mean not just 'landing on the table', but landing on the right spot on the table, while moving in the right direction, with the right spin and speed).

Every other consideration or decision you make as a beginner, must therefore be made secondary to matters of control; they should all further the amount of control you have during practice.

For example:

Yes, Mark V is a great beginner rubber. It's a well-behaved all round rubber that does everything pretty well,.... so feel free to use it by all means -- assuming that is, that you can control it. If not, go for something else.

2.0mm is a good sponge thickness for a still-developing all -round game, as it can help you develop all your skills and rudiments over time... assuming that is, if you can control it. If you can't control a 2.0mm version of a rubber, owever, then 1.8mm or 1.5mm may be even better - assuming you can control THAT.... .Otherwise go to 1.3mm, or even 1.0mm if necessary.

H3 can create great spin and can also help you drill proper technique - if you can control it.

As H3 is a tacky rubber, it will be very sensitive to incoming spin -- which can make it hard to control the ball returning serve...

(...I'm sure you get the picture by now).

My advice is try ALL the above rubbers and thicknesses... No matter what country you play in, you can find somebody using H3, Mark V, or any other popular rubber you'd care to mention.

Ditto with blades - try anything and everything you can get your hands on.

Try starting off with really fast gear if you like -- hell, all beginners do that at some point.

But if at LEAST 85% of all your strokes / shots aren't landing where you need then you know what to do...

Ie: Change down again to something slower, or less spinny, or with more feedback, and just keep doing so until you can really, REALLY control what the ball does.

THEN you can try going faster again... so long as you can control it.

Good luck!!

 

[sportslover]

I got a Donic Waldner Allplay with Yinhe Mercury 2 Max thickness, Medium hard on both sides.

I didn't go for Soft on backhand because that wasn't available with the seller.

What difference will soft vs medium make on the backhand?

 

[hclnnkhg]

I got a Donic Waldner Allplay with Yinhe Mercury 2 Max thickness, Medium hard on both sides.

I didn't go for Soft on backhand because that wasn't available with the seller.

What difference will soft vs medium make on the backhand?

It would be easier to engage the sponge of a soft rubber than a medium rubber by doing a small swing. Engaging the sponge usually gives you more speed and spin (than not engaging it).
On the other hand, it is also easier to "bottom out" the sponge of a soft rubber i.e. you compress it so much that the sponge doesn't rebound like normal, usually resulting in very little spin.
From my personal experience M2 medium is not so hard that you can't use it on the BH.