Side tape REALLY change the feeling or not? What do you think?

[NetProphet]

I apply enough edge tape that if I hit the table in a forehand or backhand push the tape is between the rubber and the table. For 2-sided inverted the widest tape is just not wide enough, so I may have to use 2 runs (only on the contact area). I am not sensitive enough to notice a difference.

You can get edge tape in 12 and 15mm, are they really not wide enough?

 

[Loop Lob Smash]

It does protect the edge, of that there is no doubt. Now you can still bang your edge hard enough to damage it, but it is somewhat protected. And I do appreciate even one gram since I use LP in OX on one side.

One gram?? Long Pimple players be like

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Lets separate the issues of whether it changes the weight, whether it changes the feel, and whether it matters.

1) It definitely adds weight since the tape does weigh something and you are putting it on the edge of the blade. It adds more of a feeling of weight than if you put the same amount of tape on the handle. But the amount of weight is still minor.

2) I can feel the difference. But maybe not everyone would care. I don't personally care either. But I have gone back and forth with a piece of edge tape, on, off, on, off to see if it was just in my head. I could feel the difference. But the difference wasn't that important to me. If you had me blindfolded and you were handing me the same blade with the tape on, then with it off and repeating while randomly taking on and off, if I felt each 10 times, as long as it is one blade and the same piece of tape being added and taken away, I am pretty comfortable that I could feel which is which. But it still does not matter because (read next part....)

3) Does it matter: If you used the setup with tape for 5 min, you would adjust and it would not really change anything about what you do in training or match play. You would adjust how much force you need for your strokes so everything was pretty much the same. You can say the same thing in reverse.

So, based on number 3, the issue boils down to whether you like edge tape or not. I like seeing the wood. To me it looks more raw when you see the wood of the blade.

By the way: number 3 applies to many changes in TT equipment as well. Regardless of the setup, as long as it is not wildly too fast for the player to handle, if you play with it for a while, you will adjust to the setup and then the setup does not matter.

If you played with a pretty fast setup that you could handle for 6 months and used nothing else, and then switched to a setup that was a few notches slower, at first the setup would feel REALLY SLOW. But if you used it for 6 months and then switched to the faster setup that you had been using prior, the faster setup would feel really fast.....And then, as you used it, you would adjust and get used to it.

The reason a developing player would not benefit from a fast fast setup is, it would cause the player to cut down his stroke, to NOT TAKE a FULL stroke. Once a full stroke is in muscle memory for real and a player can adjust his stroke to get the ball to land on the table without cutting the stroke down, then you can kind of use almost anything.

So, so much of the equipment dialogue is not actually important to a player developing the skills of TT.

Do you like edge tape? Use it! Do you not like edge tape? Don't use it. The rest does not matter.

But feel free to try that test of hitting three balls with the edge tape on, and then pulling it off and hitting another three balls, and putting it back on, and taking it off. Do it several times while trying to pay attention and see if you can feel any difference. What someone else can feel does not matter that much. See if you can feel any difference or not. It is a very easy test and it won't cost anything. The glue on edge tape allows you to take it off and put it back on many times.

Something I left out for those who are fussed about head heavy or handle heavy (blade weight balance), adding the edge tape does make the blade a little more head heavy. When a blade is more head heavy, it feels more powerful. But it also makes it a little harder to get faster racket speed with a blade that is head heavy. Still the amount of weight you are adding to the head of the blade is not enough to be that big a deal. And certainly, it should not be important enough to change the game skill level of 98% of the people on the forum.

So, just decide if you like edge tape or not. You can decide that for any reason you like.

I like heavy blades. My blade is 95 grams. Would it feel different if it was 93 grams? Yes. Would you notice? Maybe not. But I would.

It is worth not telling other people what they do and don't feel simply because you don't feel something. Nobody has any idea what someone else can feel. But as your skill level goes up, your precise control of the blade face increases and you will likely be able to feel more as that happens:

Tell me Freitas can't feel things more subtle than you when he can do some of the things in this video: See if you can explain the "Basckspin Catcher". And I will put money on it that, if you work on some of those, like the one on the edge of the table, really any of them, all of them, your game skills WILL IMPROVE.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Table Tennis is a sport that relies on touch and feel to a very large extent. It is a game of precision. You can't get good at the subtle aspects of the game, without developing those skills. Short game is an easy example of a place where you need those subtle skills that Freitas is demonstrating in that video.

But how you contact the ball, even on power shots, how much you let the ball sink into the topsheet and sponge without banging into the wood, has everything to do with the quality of spin and the kind of shot you are going to generate. Thinner contact gives you one kind of ball trajectory and shot quality. Deeper contact without banging into the blade face gives you something different. And then, when you are driving more and want the ball to impact the wood a little, being able to feel and control how much the ball should penetrate deeper....you can't do this without being able to feel some of those subtle things.

So, while some players can't feel certain things, others can feel a lot more of what they are doing. The higher skill level stuff that happens in TT, a lot of it has to do with subtle details of how you contact the ball. Someone who can do that stuff will most likely be able to feel the stuff that some on this thread are saying you cannot feel.

 

[Newbiee]

Tell me Freitas can't feel things more subtle than you when he can do some of the things in this video: See if you can explain the "Basckspin Catcher". And I will put money on it that, if you work on some of those, like the one on the edge of the table, really any of them, all of them, your game skills WILL IMPROVE.

He can certainly feel his racket, a profissional player like him trains for many hours and for many years... I just play for fun.

 

[Newbiee]

Table Tennis is a sport that relies on touch and feel to a very large extent. It is a game of precision. You can't get good at the subtle aspects of the game, without developing those skills. Short game is an easy example of a place where you need those subtle skills that Freitas is demonstrating in that video.

But how you contact the ball, even on power shots, how much you let the ball sink into the topsheet and sponge without banging into the wood, has everything to do with the quality of spin and the kind of shot you are going to generate. Thinner contact gives you one kind of ball trajectory and shot quality. Deeper contact without banging into the blade face gives you something different. And then, when you are driving more and want the ball to impact the wood a little, being able to feel and control how much the ball should penetrate deeper....you can't do this without being able to feel some of those subtle things.

So, while some players can't feel certain things, others can feel a lot more of what they are doing. The higher skill level stuff that happens in TT, a lot of it has to do with subtle details of how you contact the ball. Someone who can do that stuff will most likely be able to feel the stuff that some on this thread are saying you cannot feel.

This is also a matter of training, performing many repetitions, and consequently getting used to the movements and feels, i know that

 

[NetProphet]

Something I left out for those who are fussed about head heavy or handle heavy (blade weight balance), adding the edge tape does make the blade a little more head heavy. When a blade is more head heavy, it feels more powerful. But it also makes it a little harder to get faster racket speed with a blade that is head heavy. Still the amount of weight you are adding to the head of the blade is not enough to be that big a deal. And certainly, it should not be important enough to change the game skill level of 98% of the people on the forum.

So, just decide if you like edge tape or not. You can decide that for any reason you like.

I like heavy blades. My blade is 95 grams. Would it feel different if it was 93 grams? Yes. Would you notice? Maybe not. But I would.

It is worth not telling other people what they do and don't feel simply because you don't feel something. Nobody has any idea what someone else can feel. But as your skill level goes up, your precise control of the blade face increases and you will likely be able to feel more as that happens:

Tell me Freitas can't feel things more subtle than you when he can do some of the things in this video: See if you can explain the "Basckspin Catcher". And I will put money on it that, if you work on some of those, like the one on the edge of the table, really any of them, all of them, your game skills WILL IMPROVE.

You're talking about less than a gram of edge tape as if someone is strapping rocks to your blade. I have to say it all sounds like bs to me. Anyone could take off more than the weight of 2 edge tapes if they tidied their rubbers up with a scalpel right now and I'm certain nobody would notice that difference.
You must be an incredibly sensitive being if you can actually notice it and if you've calibrated yourself to that level of sensitivity then I'd have to say fair enough but since I've never met anyone who can tell the difference I'd only believe you if I was there to test it 😁

 

[Newbiee]

So, while some players can't feel certain things, others can feel a lot more of what they are doing.

I know that many people like marcos can feel the slightest difference in their bat, but not everyone. That takes many years and many, many hours of playing. The point is i think a lot of people think their game is being affected by a small thing (like a side tape), but it's really just something in their mind... The power of the mind is enormous! The famous placebo effect... I have 0% placebo effect, when i feel something has changed, it's because it REALLY has, and then i always end up having confirmation of the real change...

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I know that many people like marcos can feel the slightest difference in their bat, but not everyone. That takes many years and many, many hours of playing. The point is i think a lot of people think their game is being affected by a small thing (like a side tape), but it's really just something in their mind... The power of the mind is enormous! The famous placebo effect... I have 0% placebo effect, when i feel something has changed, it's because it REALLY has, and then i always end up having confirmation of the real change...

It is worth training your touch though. Your short game will improve and your spin quality on offensive shots will improve also. To me, Sims kind of shows that he does not really understand a lot about the game in may of the things he is saying. He also, in confrontation tones, shows that he did not understand so much of what I was explaining.

Does the extra weight matter. No. It is a personal choice. Either will work. But can you feel it, someone who has skills in TT really may be able to feel the difference. As I did say though, it does not matter. Whether you want the extra weight or not. Whether you want the dampening effect that the tape has on the vibrations of the blade, for some, with tape will feel better. For others, without tape will feel better. If you use either, you will get used to it and it will be fine.

It is worth training your ability to make subtle contact and to feel how the ball contacts your blade face. Ignore the person who insists he has the only right answer because this is not about right and wrong. It is about what YOU like and want from your setup.

 

[Newbiee]

It is worth training your touch though. Your short game will improve and your spin quality on offensive shots will improve also.

It is worth training your ability to make subtle contact and to feel what how the ball contacts your blade face. Ignore the person who insists he has the only right answer because this is not about right and wrong. It is about what like and want from your setup.

I agree with that, especially what you said at the end... I have my opinions but i respect everyone! I'll try to do some of the things in the video, let's see what comes of it 😂

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

You're talking about less than a gram of edge tape as if someone is strapping rocks to your blade. I have to say it all sounds like bs to me. Anyone could take off more than the weight of 2 edge tapes if they tidied their rubbers up with a scalpel right now and I'm certain nobody would notice that difference.
You must be an incredibly sensitive being if you can actually notice it and if you've calibrated yourself to that level of sensitivity then I'd have to say fair enough but since I've never met anyone who can tell the difference I'd only believe you if I was there to test it 😁

Do the test I suggested. Take your blade, hit several balls with the edge tape on. Then take the edge tape off, ht several balls; then do it again till you have hit at least 10 sets (several hits in each set) with the edge tape on, directly followed by making the same shots with the edge tape off. See if you feel any difference. Then understand that what you feel and what someone else feels may not be the same thing.

Try it.

Also, I would love to see footage of you playing. Have you posted any footage to the forum?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

I agree with that, especially what you said at the end... I have my opinions but i respect everyone! I'll try to do some of the things in the video, let's see what comes of it 😂

Start with the thing Freitas is doing on the edge of the table. But start by trying to do that against a wall where you don't have to be as exact in ball placement. That will really help your short game and improve many things you never would have thought of in your game skill set.

 

[NetProphet]

It is worth training your touch though. Your short game will improve and your spin quality on offensive shots will improve also. To me, Sims kind of shows that he does not really understand a lot about the game in may of the things he is saying.

Upsidedown indeed Carl.
Turning things upside down trying to convince us all with essays extrapolated from the notion that 1g matters, makes a difference or can be noticed and makes you a guru and the rest of us (or just me) don't understand.
Despite what you want to believe I haven't said that working on touch or feeling is not useful. You just want to believe I don't understand things cos I think your talking rubbish ) 😂
I understand the game plenty, so back on the original subject and away from the lectures about how superior you are while you somehow seem to believe that a gram of edgetape is heavier than a gram of feathers, the topic is does it change the feel or not and what do we think.
Most people cannot tell and it's not because they cannot play or don't understand the game but because it's 1g. Or maybe 2 🤯
I'll trim it off my rubbers later and see how much extra racket speed I can generate 🙄

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

@Der_Echte : How do you feel about weight balance: handle heavy....head heavy?

Do you think a few extra grams at the tip of your blade matters or does not matter?

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Upsidedown indeed Carl.
Turning things upside down trying to convince us all with essays extrapolated from the notion that 1g matters, makes a difference or can be noticed and makes you a guru and the rest of us (or just me) don't understand.
Despite what you want to believe I haven't said that working on touch or feeling is not useful. You just want to believe I don't understand things cos I think your talking ....explitive word that should not be on the forum (edited by UpSideDownCarl ) 😂
I understand the game plenty, so back on the original subject and away from the lectures about how superior you are while you somehow seem to believe that a gram of edgetape is heavier than a gram of feathers, the topic is does it change the feel or not and what do we think.
Most people cannot tell and it's not because they cannot play or don't understand the game but because it's 1g. Or maybe 2 🤯
I'll trim it off my rubbers later and see how much extra racket speed I can generate 🙄

I really am looking forward to seeing footage of you.

 

[NetProphet]

Aw, was that everyday word reserved for purveyors of bunkum too strong for you. You are indeed a sensitive creature 🤣

 

[NetProphet]

I really am looking forward to seeing footage of you.

Of course you are, your God complex is just salivating at the essay you could write.
But again, you're miles away from the actual topic here, par for the course me thinks

 

[NDH]

I understand the game plenty, so back on the original subject and away from the lectures about how superior you are while you somehow seem to believe that a gram of edgetape is heavier than a gram of feathers, the topic is does it change the feel or not and what do we think.

OK, I'll admit that I haven't read every post in great detail.

But I'm a little lost with this back and forth.

Carl is saying he believes it makes a difference to a very small percentage of players with a sensitive feel (be that professionals who have played for years, or amateurs who simply have sensitive senses).

Is that not.... His own opinion to a question that can't be answered categorically?

I've disagreed with Carl about this from day one (it's only the 20th time this topic has come up over the years.....) - And by disagree, I mean that I personally think the difference in feeling will be felt by less than 0.01% of players outside of the Pros, and even WITH the pros, I don't think it would make much/any difference (people started taping half their bat for example, and no obvious change to their game).

But.... What I don't need to do is question whether Carl believes it. Who am I (or you) to tell someone what they can/can't feel?

You might disagree (and that's OK), but it doesn't need to be any more than that.

As for the "video of your play", like so many things on this forum, it is helpful to add context to your ability.

Whilst it does not define your answers, if it's clear you are a relative newcomer to the sport, it's helpful to the forum to add that context into your answers.

Just like an answer from Timo Boll would carry more weight than an answer from newcomer123.

Back to the actual question....There is a phrase that can be applied to *so* many questions on the forum.

If you have to ask, it won't make a difference to you.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

OK, I'll admit that I haven't read every post in great detail.

But I'm a little lost with this back and forth.

Carl is saying he believes it makes a difference to a very small percentage of players with a sensitive feel (be that professionals who have played for years, or amateurs who simply have sensitive senses).

Is that not.... His own opinion to a question that can't be answered categorically?

I've disagreed with Carl about this from day one (it's only the 20th time this topic has come up over the years.....) - And by disagree, I mean that I personally think the difference in feeling will be felt by less than 0.01% of players outside of the Pros, and even WITH the pros, I don't think it would make much/any difference (people started taping half their bat for example, and no obvious change to their game).

But.... What I don't need to do is question whether Carl believes it. Who am I (or you) to tell someone what they can/can't feel?

You might disagree (and that's OK), but it doesn't need to be any more than that.

As for the "video of your play", like so many things on this forum, it is helpful to add context to your ability.

Whilst it does not define your answers, if it's clear you are a relative newcomer to the sport, it's helpful to the forum to add that context into your answers.

Just like an answer from Timo Boll would carry more weight than an answer from newcomer123.

Back to the actual question....There is a phrase that can be applied to *so* many questions on the forum.

If you have to ask, it won't make a difference to you.

And note: this is why my posts include things like this:

Does the extra weight matter. No. It is a personal choice. Either will work.

It is about what YOU like and want from your setup.

I agree it does not matter and it is about personal choice.

I just think, if you tested, more people would be able to tell. Then you would just decide which you like better from a more informed position. And, certainly, many can't feel the difference. But to say that nobody can seems a bit off.

 

[NetProphet]

OK, I'll admit that I haven't read every post in great detail.

But I'm a little lost with this back and forth.

Carl is saying he believes it makes a difference to a very small percentage of players with a sensitive feel (be that professionals who have played for years, or amateurs who simply have sensitive senses).

Is that not.... His own opinion to a question that can't be answered categorically?

I've disagreed with Carl about this from day one (it's only the 20th time this topic has come up over the years.....) - And by disagree, I mean that I personally think the difference in feeling will be felt by less than 0.01% of players outside of the Pros, and even WITH the pros, I don't think it would make much/any difference (people started taping half their bat for example, and no obvious change to their game).

But.... What I don't need to do is question whether Carl believes it. Who am I (or you) to tell someone what they can/can't feel?

You might disagree (and that's OK), but it doesn't need to be any more than that.

As for the "video of your play", like so many things on this forum, it is helpful to add context to your ability.

Whilst it does not define your answers, if it's clear you are a relative newcomer to the sport, it's helpful to the forum to add that context into your answers.

Just like an answer from Timo Boll would carry more weight than an answer from newcomer123.

Back to the actual question....There is a phrase that can be applied to *so* many questions on the forum.

If you have to ask, it won't make a difference to you.

Yeah, it was just a friendly back and forth banter, one believing one thing and one another. I don't think you'll find anything overly pushy, arrogant, untoward or otherwise is any of my posts but then it comes to, I just don't understand much about the game from the one going off on mental essay length tangents to convince all.
Of course he is entitled to his belief and opinion, as is anyone and if you write essays then they may be challenged but no need to resort to insult to those who don't necessarily agree, right?
Oh and the footage thing, you must record and post videos of yourself to have a worthwhile opinion it seems...

Up to speed now I hope 😁

I relatively new returning to the sport (~3yrs ago now) but have 10 yrs total experience, possibly a baby by the yrs and quality of experience some ppl in here would have but I see the point is that moderators and others will just label you low IQ with difficulty understanding if you can't be flogged into agreement.
Unless your playing 40yrs and have video to prove it 😉