Experience with some other Loki rubbers - Arthur China, GTX Pro (inc)

[Wakkibatty]

Yes... had just one session so far. No drills, just some matches with players I know. Different blade than usual 1), H3 on FH and BH worked well but BH with Telson 100 was way to inconsistent. Playing against unknown opponents would have been a disaster.

Agree with @Wakkibatty https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/fo...rs-arthur-china-gtx-pro-inc.26965/post-460916 on this one..

High quality rubber. Sponge is not brittle as DHS #80, topsheet is very grippy, slightly tacky, and a bit sensitive to humidity.
Short game and serves: good, not that hard to keep balls short or push long with good placement or to keep serves short and spinny. Blocks: also good (when using soft hands), not very spin sensitive. Drives and especially smashes are very good and fast.
But this thing has definitely two gears: fast enough and good to control and nuts with lots of spin and a borderline low trajectory when looping. I definitely need more time to figure out how to loop consistently with this rubber.

It might eventually work better when boosted/softened a bit to get more contact time but I'm a bit hesitant to try that at the moment...

1) Telson CNF: Nice blade, woody feeling, not overly fast when not needed, flexes and vibrates more than e.g. V14Pro or 729 Blue Arylate.

I'm starting to think this rubber was developed for big looping rallies away from the table. It behaves a bit like a R3 Pink and blue on steroids in a way.

When you really start looping & hitting hard with the R3 Blue and pink, you get a flat straight trajectory with lots of spin, and the ball kicks off the table more. Well the Telson 100 does much the same thing, but to a crazy degree. Speed is almost doubled, spin is almost doubled, and the trajectory on is so much flatter it makes the R3 Blue look like a Fastarc G-1.

So if you were a loooong way back from the table it would be preferable to a R3 Blue in the power stakes. Similarly it is better than a R3 Blue in the short game, as it's soft touch is far more deft, and it has equal or better spin potential

Problem is, there is absolutely no in-between gears with this rubber. It's speeds goes from short game friendly to an away-from-the-table whack frenzy with nothing in between. On a hard or stiff composite blade there is simply no middle ground at all, so you need the blade to provide this for you.

A really soft set of outer layers coupled with a semi-firm medial is probably the way to go here, as it will give you a bit of a mid-range speed to work with,through not compressing the sponge quite as hard during loops. You would also need to brush-loop a lot to access that tiny set of middle gears it has with a softer slower blade. A brush loop with this rubber is like a power loop with any other rubber...at all costs you want to avoid engaging the sponge too much when transitioning your playing zones from over the table to mid distance (and when I say avoiding "too much" sponge impact, I really mean 'any'. You need light soft hands with this puppy if you're less than 1.5m (five feet) away from the table. Once you hit the 2m Mark, then you can think about engaging that sponge, not before.

Basically when strapped to a hard stuff or fast blade, it behaves a bit like a Non-Tacky R3Blue for those who have amazing touch, brush loop a lot, and like to play 2-3 meters away from the table.

If you put it on something really slow and soft however (Donic appelgren classic??) it behaves a lot more like a T05 with a higher safer arc, and great spin potential.

 

[mattlamperouge]

I'm starting to think this rubber was developed for big looping rallies away from the table. It behaves a bit like a R3 Pink and blue on steroids in a way.

When you really start looping & hitting hard with the R3 Blue and pink, you get a flat straight trajectory with lots of spin, and the ball kicks off the table more. Well the Telson 100 does much the same thing, but to a crazy degree. Speed is almost doubled, spin is almost doubled, and the trajectory on is so much flatter it makes the R3 Blue look like a Fastarc G-1.

So if you were a loooong way back from the table it would be preferable to a R3 Blue in the power stakes. Similarly it is better than a R3 Blue in the short game, as it's soft touch is far more deft, and it has equal or better spin potential

Problem is, there is absolutely no in-between gears with this rubber. It's speeds goes from short game friendly to an away-from-the-table whack frenzy with nothing in between. On a hard or stiff composite blade there is simply no middle ground at all, so you need the blade to provide this for you.

A really soft set of outer layers coupled with a semi-firm medial is probably the way to go here, as it will give you a bit of a mid-range speed to work with,through not compressing the sponge quite as hard during loops. You would also need to brush-loop a lot to access that tiny set of middle gears it has with a softer slower blade. A brush loop with this rubber is like a power loop with any other rubber...at all costs you want to avoid engaging the sponge too much when transitioning your playing zones from over the table to mid distance (and when I say avoiding "too much" sponge impact, I really mean 'any'. You need light soft hands with this puppy if you're less than 1.5m (five feet) away from the table. Once you hit the 2m Mark, then you can think about engaging that sponge, not before.

Basically when strapped to a hard stuff or fast blade, it behaves a bit like a Non-Tacky R3Blue for those who have amazing touch, brush loop a lot, and like to play 2-3 meters away from the table.

If you put it on something really slow and soft however (Donic appelgren classic??) it behaves a lot more like a T05 with a higher safer arc, and great spin potential.

How would you compare its arc and behavior with T64?

 

[Wakkibatty]

It's reasonably T64-like -- haven't used a T64 very much, or for a very long time, but I do remember it being very fast and punchy, and a great BH rubber.

The T100 is certainly fast and punchy -- it's that dead flat throw angle that frustrated me though when I used it on my BH.

It really is a very unusual rubber that people need to try out for themselves. Like I commented earlier, it has playing elements in common with a lot of prominent non tacky rubbers, but it's not really hugely reminiscent of any of them. It really is a unique beast. The only concrete thing you can say is at its current purchase price, it's a steal... But even that probably won't stay low for long if it keeps selling out the way it has.

 

[TensorBackhand]

http://www.lokisport.com/ -> Product Display last link -> catalogue -> https://flbook.com.cn/c/VubLi8CH4p

Name	Thickness	Hardness	Sponge	Speed	Control	Spin	Tacky
Kirin K1	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun I	11.5	10	9	non-sticky
Kirin K3	2.1 mm	A37	Negh I	12	11	9	non-sticky
Kirin K5	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun IV	13.5	10	8.5	non-sticky
Kirin MP	1.8 mm	A35	Negh I	14.5	9	6.5	medium pimples
Kirin LP	1.0 mm	A37	Loxa I	7	15	5.5	long pimples
Kirin SP	2.1 mm	A35	Loxa I	15	13	7	short pimples
Rxton 1	2.1 mm	A39	Kunlun I	11	10	9	sticky
Rxton 1 Special	2.1 mm	A39	Kunlun I	11	10	9	sticky
Rxton 3 Max	2.1 mm	A39	Negh I	10	11	10	sticky
Rxton 3 Pro	2.1 mm	A40	Negh I	11	12	11	sticky
Rxton 5 Max	2.1 mm	A41	Loxa I	11	11	11	sticky
Rxton 5 Pro	2.1 mm	A41	Loxa I	11	12	12	sticky
Rxton 7	2.1 mm	A37, A39, A40	Kunlun III	11.5	12	12	sticky
Rxton 9	2.1 mm	A39.5, A40.5	Loxa III	12	12	12	sticky
Rxton 9 Speed	2.1 mm	?	Loxa III	13	12	12	sticky
Telson 100	2.1 mm	O47.5, O45	Kunlun II	13	13	12	non-sticky
Arthur China	2.1 mm	A40	Kunlun II	11	12	12	sticky
Arthur Europe	2.1 mm	A40	Loxa II	12	11	12	sticky
Arthur Asia	2.1 mm	A41	Kunlun III	11	12	12	sticky
Arthur Europe Soft	2.1 mm	A37	Kunlun III	12	12	11	non-sticky
Rxton 3 Blue/Pink	2.1 mm	?	?	?	?	?	sticky

So is Rxton 7 largely similar to Arthur Asia? They both use Kunlun 3 sponge, sticky topsheet.

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

About the T100 Rubber:

Tested it a couple of times and had some direct comparisons.

Its good.

A lot of spin.
Not as much as tacky rubbers,
but more than almost all non-tacky rubbers I tried.

Elastic and nice feeling.

Faster than G-1.

More dynamic than NUZN 50.

Better power output than ESN rubbers and higher quality on the ball.

Top sheet has a lot of grip and is and not very hard.

My partner said it put more pressure on him than the NUZN ( which I would not have expected ).



Overall a really great rubber, not just for the price.


PS:
A little disappointed in the NUZN 50, expected a little "more" from it.
Andro VCI really comfortable inner blade, good feedback, vibration and feeling.

Loki Arthur China still unmatched on my "chopping" setup.

 

[TensorBackhand]

About the T100 Rubber:

Tested it a couple of times and had some direct comparisons.

Its good.

A lot of spin.
Not as much as tacky rubbers,
but more than almost all non-tacky rubbers I tried.

Elastic and nice feeling.

Faster than G-1.

More dynamic than NUZN 50.

Better power output than ESN rubbers and higher quality on the ball.

Top sheet has a lot of grip and is and not very hard.

My partner said it put more pressure on him than the NUZN ( which I would not have expected ).



Overall a really great rubber, not just for the price.


PS:
A little disappointed in the NUZN 50, expected a little "more" from it.
Andro VCI really comfortable inner blade, good feedback, vibration and feeling.

Loki Arthur China still unmatched on my "chopping" setup.

Sounds excellent. Is it similar to Tenergy 05?

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

Sounds excellent. Is it similar to Tenergy 05?

Don't have much experience with T05.

Played it only a couple of times.

T05 felt "softer" and easier to play.

T100 felt "thicker" and had a bit more dwell time.

Overall pretty close.

But I am no "expert" in Tenergy rubbers.

And T100 played better than Vega Pro or R48.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Don't have much experience with T05.

Played it only a couple of times.

T05 felt "softer" and easier to play.

T100 felt "thicker" and had a bit more dwell time.

Overall pretty close.

But I am no "expert" in Tenergy rubbers.

And T100 played better than Vega Pro or R48.

Sounds good. I might get one for 11/11

 

[andzejgolot]

Don't have much experience with T05.

Played it only a couple of times.

T05 felt "softer" and easier to play.

T100 felt "thicker" and had a bit more dwell time.

Overall pretty close.

But I am no "expert" in Tenergy rubbers.

And T100 played better than Vega Pro or R48.

Do you use it on fh too?

 

[Wakkibatty]

About the T100 Rubber:

Tested it a couple of times and had some direct comparisons.

Its good.

A lot of spin.
Not as much as tacky rubbers,
but more than almost all non-tacky rubbers I tried.

Elastic and nice feeling.

Faster than G-1.

More dynamic than NUZN 50.

Better power output than ESN rubbers and higher quality on the ball.

Top sheet has a lot of grip and is and not very hard.

My partner said it put more pressure on him than the NUZN ( which I would not have expected ).



Overall a really great rubber, not just for the price.


PS:
A little disappointed in the NUZN 50, expected a little "more" from it.
Andro VCI really comfortable inner blade, good feedback, vibration and feeling.

Loki Arthur China still unmatched on my "chopping" setup.

Purely out of curiosity, what was the blade you tried the T100 on, and what was its composition?

 

[AutomaticBackhand]

Purely out of curiosity, what was the blade you tried the T100 on, and what was its composition?

Icecream AZXi, Inner Fiber blade.

80% of the time I'm using some sort of limba + inner composition.

Do you use it on fh too?

On both FH and BH.

 

[Wakkibatty]

My Kirin 1 and Kirin 3 test rubbers arrived today.

On opening the Kirin 3, my heart sank at first, as with its matt, opaque top sheet and carbon sponge it looked nigh-identical to the original T3. My very first impression was therefore "it's just a rebrand job"

Closer inspection demonstrated I was wrong -- but I could only tell by putting my T3 rubbers and the Kirin 3 side by side and looking *really* close.

This closer inspection demonstrated two key differences -- well, three differences really.

1. DIFFERENT TOP SHEET ELASTOMER - The T3's top sheet was *not* identical to the Kir3. The Kir3's top sheet was softer and gripper right off the bat (simply dragging your finger across it demonstrated this). The Kir3 comes with a tacky cover, which shows up the inverted pip profile like it was translucent top-sheet. Once you remove it, the inner pip structure vanishes, and it looks a bit like the regular matt top-sheet the T3 used to have. But it's clearly not the same stuff... even though it does look like a distant relative of it. The Kir3 top-sheet is still softer, finer, more flexible, more grippy, and from the look of it would have a much higher spin potential that the T3 (yay!). (NB: I never got a chance to try out the T3 soft, but I'm guessing it was pretty damn close to the Kir3, if not the exact same rubber rebranded.)

2: DIFFERENT CARBON SPONGE: The Kir3 carbon sponge seemed *very* similar to the T3, but it's pore size is marginally smaller, and consistency marginally stiffer (though I'm splitting hairs on that last bit). The texture also seemed slightly smoother (?? maybe ??), so they're not exactly the same -- it looks like a refinement of their original carbon sponge, so I'm expecting a similar playing feel on engaging the sponge. This is not necessarily a bad thing though! The T3 was seriously quick and had a nice feel, but spin was non-existent, which was a shame.

3: FISHY SMELL: On opening the Kir3, there was a distinct smell of thawed mulies (ie: Australian sardines used as fishing bait). This suggested factory boosting, and the faint tell-tale concave curl at the edges of the rubber seemed to back me up. A quick check of the packaging confirmed both the Kir1 and Kir3 have perforations in the plastic bag to expell fumes (the Kir1 has a petrochemical smell as opposed to fish.) My original T3s however definitely weren't factory boosted.

I'm not expecting much from the Kir1 given it's rock bottom price, but with the Kir3 (even from just a quick initial examination), I'm hopeful it's another hidden diamond. It seems to be a well made rubber with a higher quality top sheet that its predecessors in the T3 and Rxton 3 TOP. The top sheet looks reasonably promising spin-wise and I noticed at least *SOME* textural / flex / stretch similarities between it and the T100.

Given (according to Loki's own speed/spin scale) the Kirin 3 is only slightly slower than the T100 with about 80% of its spin, that would still put the Kir3 at the upper end of performance and value as far as mid-range BH rubbers go. Will fit and play test the rubber against a known quantity rubber later this week (maybe an AK-47, or maybe something from ESN. Stay tuned...

 

[SleepyMaster]

Loki rxton 1 special edition - does someone have using it? I saw pretty good Japan reviews on it. My friend need a forehand replacement to his old nittaku pk50 but he didn’t play to often and don’t won’t to spend 50+ euro on a rubber. Maybe it can be good replacement rubber for him 🤓

 

[TensorBackhand]

Loki rxton 1 special edition - does someone have using it? I saw pretty good Japan reviews on it. My friend need a forehand replacement to his old nittaku pk50 but he didn’t play to often and don’t won’t to spend 50+ euro on a rubber. Maybe it can be good replacement rubber for him 🤓

Just get rxton 3 pro

 

[Wakkibatty]

Loki rxton 1 special edition - does someone have using it? I saw pretty good Japan reviews on it. My friend need a forehand replacement to his old nittaku pk50 but he didn’t play to often and don’t won’t to spend 50+ euro on a rubber. Maybe it can be good replacement rubber for him 🤓

The Rxton 1 Special is a standard R1 top-sheet with carbon sponge instead of the usual flaky-cakey stuff it normally boasts. Speed & spin are both pretty solid, without being spectacular. Control is very good to excellent. To me at least it reminds me a bit of a less-springy version of the original Xiom Vega Europe.

I agree with @TensorBackhand though -- the R3Pro is a better buy on the whole... More speed, better spin, similar control, similar price.

 

[SleepyMaster]

Just get rxton 3 pro

The Rxton 1 Special is a standard R1 top-sheet with carbon sponge instead of the usual flaky-cakey stuff it normally boasts. Speed & spin are both pretty solid, without being spectacular. Control is very good to excellent. To me at least it reminds me a bit of a less-springy version of the original Xiom Vega Europe.

I agree with @TensorBackhand though -- the R3Pro is a better buy on the whole... More speed, better spin, similar control, similar price.

Thank you guys! I will suggest him Rxton 3 pro instead 👌🏻

 

[Wakkibatty]

Had a quick hallway hit this evening with the Kirin 3 (Black top-sheet)

Initial impression: I like it! It's no world-beater, and (unlike the T100) it's not remotely a threat to the T05 or T64, but it's still not a bad rubber, and at its price point I can see a lot of intermediate players (1-3 years) grabbing one.

Initial impressions:

- Firm & hard-ish playing feel, a little similar to a R3Pro, but without the tack, and not *quite* as soft.

- Extremely linear! No tensor rubber this one, the sponge has very little catapult out of the box. If you want speed, you hit harder. No sign of factory boosting -- that initial impression now seems way off!

- Very good spin & speed potential (again, not outstanding but not too shabby either given the low price tag).

- Quite heavy -- 53 grams cut.

- Seems to have a pretty hight throw angle

- Probably more a looping than a driving rubber. Keeping a stiff wrist & trying to bury the ball deep into the sponge gives you a very average shot with low quality (the sponge does not cooperate). Ditto for fast punchy BH couters. However, the second you back off the sponge a little and add even just a *little* bit of brush to your shots, the ball suddenly comes alive and starts kicking around with some decent-looking spin on it (speed improved right away too).

- Seems to have great control! You can both high slow loop and low power loop on the bh wing with it pretty effortlessly.

- Didn't detect any slippage, but I'll wait til I can have a proper hit wit it first on this one.

- Pretty decent spin on serve strokes, will probably also have really lovely touch on the short game. Lots of slow gears to it.

- Most resembles: Rakza 7... Probably not a hugely accurate comparison as I admit I haven't played with a R7 for ages... but the R7 was still the first rubber to come to mind when trying to think of something similar, or what it might have been modelled on.

Will wait for a proper hit before I say any more, (hallway appearances can be deceiving.)

 

[TensorBackhand]

Had a quick hallway hit this evening with the Kirin 3 (Black top-sheet)

Initial impression: I like it! It's no world-beater, and (unlike the T100) it's not remotely a threat to the T05 or T64, but it's still not a bad rubber, and at its price point I can see a lot of intermediate players (1-3 years) grabbing one.

Initial impressions:

- Firm & hard-ish playing feel, a little similar to a R3Pro, but without the tack, and not *quite* as soft.

- Extremely linear! No tensor rubber this one, the sponge has very little catapult out of the box. If you want speed, you hit harder. No sign of factory boosting -- that initial impression now seems way off!

- Very good spin & speed potential (again, not outstanding but not too shabby either given the low price tag).

- Quite heavy -- 53 grams cut.

- Seems to have a pretty hight throw angle

- Probably more a looping than a driving rubber. Keeping a stiff wrist & trying to bury the ball deep into the sponge gives you a very average shot with low quality (the sponge does not cooperate). Ditto for fast punchy BH couters. However, the second you back off the sponge a little and add even just a *little* bit of brush to your shots, the ball suddenly comes alive and starts kicking around with some decent-looking spin on it (speed improved right away too).

- Seems to have great control! You can both high slow loop and low power loop on the bh wing with it pretty effortlessly.

- Didn't detect any slippage, but I'll wait til I can have a proper hit wit it first on this one.

- Pretty decent spin on serve strokes, will probably also have really lovely touch on the short game. Lots of slow gears to it.

- Most resembles: Rakza 7... Probably not a hugely accurate comparison as I admit I haven't played with a R7 for ages... but the R7 was still the first rubber to come to mind when trying to think of something similar, or what it might have been modelled on.

Will wait for a proper hit before I say any more, (hallway appearances can be deceiving.)

Is the topsheet grippy? Or is it kinda smooth like T3?

 

[mattlamperouge]

My Kirin 1 and Kirin 3 test rubbers arrived today.

On opening the Kirin 3, my heart sank at first, as with its matt, opaque top sheet and carbon sponge it looked nigh-identical to the original T3. My very first impression was therefore "it's just a rebrand job"

Closer inspection demonstrated I was wrong -- but I could only tell by putting my T3 rubbers and the Kirin 3 side by side and looking *really* close.

This closer inspection demonstrated two key differences -- well, three differences really.

1. DIFFERENT TOP SHEET ELASTOMER - The T3's top sheet was *not* identical to the Kir3. The Kir3's top sheet was softer and gripper right off the bat (simply dragging your finger across it demonstrated this). The Kir3 comes with a tacky cover, which shows up the inverted pip profile like it was translucent top-sheet. Once you remove it, the inner pip structure vanishes, and it looks a bit like the regular matt top-sheet the T3 used to have. But it's clearly not the same stuff... even though it does look like a distant relative of it. The Kir3 top-sheet is still softer, finer, more flexible, more grippy, and from the look of it would have a much higher spin potential that the T3 (yay!). (NB: I never got a chance to try out the T3 soft, but I'm guessing it was pretty damn close to the Kir3, if not the exact same rubber rebranded.)

2: DIFFERENT CARBON SPONGE: The Kir3 carbon sponge seemed *very* similar to the T3, but it's pore size is marginally smaller, and consistency marginally stiffer (though I'm splitting hairs on that last bit). The texture also seemed slightly smoother (?? maybe ??), so they're not exactly the same -- it looks like a refinement of their original carbon sponge, so I'm expecting a similar playing feel on engaging the sponge. This is not necessarily a bad thing though! The T3 was seriously quick and had a nice feel, but spin was non-existent, which was a shame.

3: FISHY SMELL: On opening the Kir3, there was a distinct smell of thawed mulies (ie: Australian sardines used as fishing bait). This suggested factory boosting, and the faint tell-tale concave curl at the edges of the rubber seemed to back me up. A quick check of the packaging confirmed both the Kir1 and Kir3 have perforations in the plastic bag to expell fumes (the Kir1 has a petrochemical smell as opposed to fish.) My original T3s however definitely weren't factory boosted.

I'm not expecting much from the Kir1 given it's rock bottom price, but with the Kir3 (even from just a quick initial examination), I'm hopeful it's another hidden diamond. It seems to be a well made rubber with a higher quality top sheet that its predecessors in the T3 and Rxton 3 TOP. The top sheet looks reasonably promising spin-wise and I noticed at least *SOME* textural / flex / stretch similarities between it and the T100.

Given (according to Loki's own speed/spin scale) the Kirin 3 is only slightly slower than the T100 with about 80% of its spin, that would still put the Kir3 at the upper end of performance and value as far as mid-range BH rubbers go. Will fit and play test the rubber against a known quantity rubber later this week (maybe an AK-47, or maybe something from ESN. Stay tuned...

Sounds promising, i tested both T3 and T3 Speed and the topsheet felt the same, not much grip. Normal T3 was a lot better overall. I Hope its a good budget option while T100 its the advanced BH non tacky rubber.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Sounds promising, i tested both T3 and T3 Speed and the topsheet felt the same, not much grip. Normal T3 was a lot better overall. I Hope its a good budget option while T100 its the advanced BH non tacky rubber.

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256807154966250.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.main.1.358cNdDgNdDg5R&algo_pvid=fb54d795-3241-4870-9097-ba3e1942bf3e&algo_exp_id=fb54d795-3241-4870-9097-ba3e1942bf3e-0&pdp_npi=4%40dis%21USD%217.32%217.32%21%21%217.32%217.32%21%402101e62517213312581841373e8500%2112000040338181102%21sea%21US%211644340096%21&curPageLogUid=PxpwY29mr64v&utparam-url=scene%3Asearch%7Cquery_from%3A

Kirin rubber is out. Kirin 3 really looks like T3....so I have a feeling they are really similar.