Sealing and gluing problems, please help

[dnelsen]

So for a while there I was not sealing my blade (Yasaka Sweden Extra, which supposedly comes factory sealed, but it's hard to tell), and I was using Butterfly Free Chack.... all of this with no problems at all. The glue stuck great, easily applied nice and flat with no bubbles, and I could remove the rubber with no problems at all.

It's important to note that I had all of this absolutely dialed. I'm very meticulous. No problems at all with at least a dozen glue jobs.

Then I received my new OSP Virtuoso, and I went down an internet rabbit hole about how important sealing such a precious blade is, and how Free Chack is the devil because it risks damaging the blade when the rubber is removed. This is when everything started going sideways....

I sealed the blade with a single coat of Rev3 sealer. No problems there... so far, anyways.

Then came the Rev3 gluing, "normal" thickness. Shaken very thoroughly. Thin coats, allowing to dry between coats. 2 coats on the blade and 3 coats on the rubber (Rakza 7 2.0). No issues on the blade, but the rubber was a different story. After just one coat the rubber starting curving upwards, shaped like a cereal bowl, which got worse with each coat. The free chack would do this as well, but only slightly. I also ran into some trouble with the Rev3 drying too fast, such that there's not as much time to work with it. This last point is just a matter of technique. Work faster, ok.

Then came the sticking of the rubber to the blade, after letting the glue dry thoroughly. Done very carefully with a roller, starting at the handle. I couldn't get it to stick flat. Bubbles appeared under the sponge, maybe 1/2" in diameter, in maybe 6-8 places. Strangest thing.

So I removed the rubber and the glue (NOT so easy to remove from the sponge, but that's another topic), and I started over with the Free Chack (oh the horror!). I just needed to get it done so I could play the next day.

Despite all of the glue being removed from the blade, I couldn't get the Free Chack to spread smoothly on the blade. It would pool up and gather into puddles, kind of like a "mercury poured on a flat surface" effect. I figured this must have been because of the Rev3 sealer, so I removed the sealer with some very light sanding and a little bit of rubbing alcohol. Thankfully this went smoothly.

Once the sealant was removed, it was back to normal with the Free Chack. It went perfectly. Smooth application of the glue, and the rubber stuck to the blade super smooth with no bubbles at all.

Any thoughts as to what I was doing wrong with the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue? I don't want this to seem like a bad review of the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue. MANY people love these products, so my experience is quite puzzling.

Thanks

 

[dingyibvs]

So for a while there I was not sealing my blade (Yasaka Sweden Extra, which supposedly comes factory sealed, but it's hard to tell), and I was using Butterfly Free Chack.... all of this with no problems at all. The glue stuck great, easily applied nice and flat with no bubbles, and I could remove the rubber with no problems at all.

It's important to note that I had all of this absolutely dialed. I'm very meticulous. No problems at all with at least a dozen glue jobs.

Then I received my new OSP Virtuoso, and I went down an internet rabbit hole about how important sealing such a precious blade is, and how Free Chack is the devil because it risks damaging the blade when the rubber is removed. This is when everything started going sideways....

I sealed the blade with a single coat of Rev3 sealer. No problems there... so far, anyways.

Then came the Rev3 gluing, "normal" thickness. Shaken very thoroughly. Thin coats, allowing to dry between coats. 2 coats on the blade and 3 coats on the rubber (Rakza 7 2.0). No issues on the blade, but the rubber was a different story. After just one coat the rubber starting curving upwards, shaped like a cereal bowl, which got worse with each coat. The free chack would do this as well, but only slightly. I also ran into some trouble with the Rev3 drying too fast, such that there's not as much time to work with it. This last point is just a matter of technique. Work faster, ok.

Then came the sticking of the rubber to the blade, after letting the glue dry thoroughly. Done very carefully with a roller, starting at the handle. I couldn't get it to stick flat. Bubbles appeared under the sponge, maybe 1/2" in diameter, in maybe 6-8 places. Strangest thing.

So I removed the rubber and the glue (NOT so easy to remove from the sponge, but that's another topic), and I started over with the Free Chack (oh the horror!). I just needed to get it done so I could play the next day.

Despite all of the glue being removed from the blade, I couldn't get the Free Chack to spread smoothly on the blade. It would pool up and gather into puddles, kind of like a "mercury poured on a flat surface" effect. I figured this must have been because of the Rev3 sealer, so I removed the sealer with some very light sanding and a little bit of rubbing alcohol. Thankfully this went smoothly.

Once the sealant was removed, it was back to normal with the Free Chack. It went perfectly. Smooth application of the glue, and the rubber stuck to the blade super smooth with no bubbles at all.

Any thoughts as to what I was doing wrong with the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue? I don't want this to seem like a bad review of the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue. MANY people love these products, so my experience is quite puzzling.

Thanks

I've never used either product, but after sealing you should always sand it with fine grit sanding paper or else nothing will stick.

 

[WingTT]

I believe the Rev3 sealer and Rev3 glue that is weird. I've never heard of glue curling up rubbers unless it had something else in it besides the regular latex, water and ammonia. If you use the right type of sealer and glue there should not be any problems like your experience with Free Chack. I personally try to stay away from ammonia stabilized latex glues because a lot of times the plastic container it comes in allows the ammonia to escape and the glue becomes unstable or the quality is too variable as few if any of these table tennis brands actually have a glue manufacturing facility, they simply contract it out to god know who in China or something.. The only one I trust is Copydex who is a glue specialist. I use Donic Formula First which is a non ammonia formula that is very stable and quite strong so you only need one thin layer on each side.

I use Minwax Wipe On Poly as sealant and it is so thin that there is no risk of over application if you follow the directions and you can adjust the number of applications you want and do not have to sand afterwards.

 

[dnelsen]

I've never used either product, but after sealing you should always sand it with fine grit sanding paper or else nothing will stick.

Thanks. Frustrating that the written instructions on Megaspin make no mention of this sanding step

 

[Lazer]

Thanks. Frustrating that the written instructions on Megaspin make no mention of this sanding step

And you must let the sealer harden properly, I use regular varnish and let it sit overnight, then sand. If it’s to soft when you attempt to sand it it will become a sticky mess…

Try “medium viscosity” next time, I think “normal viscosity” is too thin. Maybe it dissapeared inte the sponge.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[dnelsen]

I have to question whether the Rev3 sealer can be effectively sanded. It’s not mentioned in the written instructions, both on Megaspin and in some other written instructions by users, and the video instructions only mention it as an after thought, something you might need to do if your rubber isn't sticking... but they don't demonstrate how to do this in an otherwise very detailed set of instructions.

So after the rubber wouldn't stick, I actually did sand the Rev3 sealer, very lightly with 220. The sealer had cured for more than 24 hours. All of the sealer came off completely, with very little light sanding, immediately down to bare wood, as if the sealer had never been applied. This is not terribly surprising, as the Rev3 sealer is known for sitting on top of the wood and not soaking into the wood. Perhaps a 2nd coat would have made it sandable? This is something I could try, although it contradicts the sentiment of "only apply one coat so you don't risk changing the playing characteristics of the blade".

As for the Rev3 glue, it's possible that I got a bad bottle. Yes I shook it very well. It wasn't spreading as easily as the free chack does, although I'm not sure if that's normal. If you're not fast with the spreading, the applicator sponge will damage any prior layers of glue underneath (I found this out the hard way). When I removed it from the rubber to start over, it was very gummy and elastic, balling up into very elastic balls, similar to rubber cement. If this amount of elasticity isn't normal, it would also explain the curling of the sponge when it was applied.

 

[dnelsen]

Try “medium viscosity” next time, I think “normal viscosity” is too thin. Maybe it dissapeared inte the sponge.

Cheers
L-zr

Good thought. This is something I could try. But it would of course require purchasing another bottle, and given all the troubles I've had with the Rev3 glue I would likely try another brand.

 

[Doum]

You can email the company and complain about your problems. If it dosen't work, ask megaspin for a refund.

Maybe the product you received is defective.

 

[doppelganger_LT]

I use Donic Formula First which is a non ammonia formula that is very stable and quite strong so you only need one thin layer on each side.

Guys, be extra careful if you use Donic Formula First. Here's what it did to my blade (it was sealed and rev 3 glue was not sticking to it properly, so I tried donic, as I heard it sticks better... it sure does):

 

[NetProphet]

So for a while there I was not sealing my blade (Yasaka Sweden Extra, which supposedly comes factory sealed, but it's hard to tell), and I was using Butterfly Free Chack.... all of this with no problems at all. The glue stuck great, easily applied nice and flat with no bubbles, and I could remove the rubber with no problems at all.

It's important to note that I had all of this absolutely dialed. I'm very meticulous. No problems at all with at least a dozen glue jobs.

Then I received my new OSP Virtuoso, and I went down an internet rabbit hole about how important sealing such a precious blade is, and how Free Chack is the devil because it risks damaging the blade when the rubber is removed. This is when everything started going sideways....

I sealed the blade with a single coat of Rev3 sealer. No problems there... so far, anyways.

Then came the Rev3 gluing, "normal" thickness. Shaken very thoroughly. Thin coats, allowing to dry between coats. 2 coats on the blade and 3 coats on the rubber (Rakza 7 2.0). No issues on the blade, but the rubber was a different story. After just one coat the rubber starting curving upwards, shaped like a cereal bowl, which got worse with each coat. The free chack would do this as well, but only slightly. I also ran into some trouble with the Rev3 drying too fast, such that there's not as much time to work with it. This last point is just a matter of technique. Work faster, ok.

Then came the sticking of the rubber to the blade, after letting the glue dry thoroughly. Done very carefully with a roller, starting at the handle. I couldn't get it to stick flat. Bubbles appeared under the sponge, maybe 1/2" in diameter, in maybe 6-8 places. Strangest thing.

So I removed the rubber and the glue (NOT so easy to remove from the sponge, but that's another topic), and I started over with the Free Chack (oh the horror!). I just needed to get it done so I could play the next day.

Despite all of the glue being removed from the blade, I couldn't get the Free Chack to spread smoothly on the blade. It would pool up and gather into puddles, kind of like a "mercury poured on a flat surface" effect. I figured this must have been because of the Rev3 sealer, so I removed the sealer with some very light sanding and a little bit of rubbing alcohol. Thankfully this went smoothly.

Once the sealant was removed, it was back to normal with the Free Chack. It went perfectly. Smooth application of the glue, and the rubber stuck to the blade super smooth with no bubbles at all.

Any thoughts as to what I was doing wrong with the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue? I don't want this to seem like a bad review of the Rev3 Sealer or Rev3 glue. MANY people love these products, so my experience is quite puzzling.

Thanks

DHS no 15 glue is the best I've ever used. Has stuck everything, sealed and unsealed blades very easy to remove rubbers and no damaged blades. Its also easy to peel it off the sponge afterwards as long as you've used 2 layers or more on the sponge. 1 layer will stick a rubber to a blade but it's too thin to easily remove it from the sponge afterwards.
The curling rubber you had is caused by the glue contracting as it dries, 3 coats of strong glue can cause this. Thinner layers maybe? Or less layers? Could also be the glue thickening as it ages, new glue is thinner and doesn't cause this issue so much.
Have never used Revolution products tho so can't offer any actual experience.
Try DHS 15 and see how you like it.

 

[riemsesy]

DHS no 15 glue is the best I've ever used.

Try DHS 15 and see how you like it.

I can second this.. just perfect glue

 

[WingTT]

Guys, be extra careful if you use Donic Formula First. Here's what it did to my blade (it was sealed and rev 3 glue was not sticking to it properly, so I tried donic, as I heard it sticks better... it sure does):
View attachment 31525

Yes, you do have to be careful and do only one thin layer. It also is more economical probably as you need much less glue than what you are used to and it is quite thin in consistency.