Inner Fiber Dilemma.

[darkky65]

I have a problem with controlling Inner Fiber Blades.

it's fine for the most part, low power shots are great, high power shots are nice and zippy, easily wins you the point, the problem is the inbetween where the ALC starts to get "activated" I just loose control of the ball (mostly to the net).

any tips or drills to help with this problem? or should I just give up and switch to a 7ply wood (i don't like the stiff feeling of outer fiber blades)

Equipment for more context:
Blade: HC-1S, (Hinoki-Inner ALC)
FH: Sanwei Target Commercial (Old Ver.)
BH: GoldArc 8 50°

 

[lodro]

Could it have something to do with the Hinoki ??
I never had a blade with Hinoki but have and had lots of inner layer blades and love them.

If you can afford it, why not buy one of the Sanwei cheap inner blades like T5000 and use the same rubbers on it that you have on the HC-1s.
Just an idea and the other option would to start to experiment with different rubbers.

 

[joshmak10]

Hinoki is pretty stiff, so I’d assume it would still be quite bouncy, unlike a soft wood like limba found on most popular inner carbon blades like BTY Innerforce and DHS Hurricane Series

 

[turbozed]

Hinoki is pretty stiff, so I’d assume it would still be quite bouncy, unlike a soft wood like limba found on most popular inner carbon blades like BTY Innerforce and DHS Hurricane Series

Hinoki is way softer than limba. Maybe the softest wood outer you typically get on a blade.

Stiffness is about longitudinal resilience of the whole blade. Here's a helpful visual from SDC: https://www.sdcttblades.com/nerdy-stuff/flex-vs-hardness

 

[darkky65]

Could it have something to do with the Hinoki ??
I never had a blade with Hinoki but have and had lots of inner layer blades and love them.

If you can afford it, why not buy one of the Sanwei cheap inner blades like T5000 and use the same rubbers on it that you have on the HC-1s.
Just an idea and the other option would to start to experiment with different rubbers.

I'm thinking of grabbing a Sanwei CC for this matter. I "need" a backup anyways.

i know it isn't the rubbers since i have the same problem in BH. even when switching the GoldArc to FH.

maybe i just have to practice 😂

 

[Ultravisitor]

While the Sanwei cc is a nice blade, its also pretty bouncy and the ones I have are very stiff and fast.
Sanwei Pro 05
Dhs Fang Bo 2b/2bx
Are very nice budget options.
Many forum members are quite happy with the clones from Stour from AliExpress, but I have no experience with them.

 

[mocker88]

The HC-1S should be a really controllable, offensive blade. I have played with HC-5S a bit and I guess these are quite similar...?

So when you play shots using full body/arm movement, slow and fast, the bat is working great? But when you more like use your wrist for minor swing shots and flicks, it goes into the net? Or am I getting you wrong?

If this is the case, you might need a couple of rubbers with a little more dwell time, so you have contact with the ball a little longer. Now I haven't tried the Target Commercial, and it's been very long since I played with GoldArc 8. But if you consider for example Yinhe Big Dipper or Loki Rxton 5 Pro for forehand, and Yinhe Moon 12 Blue M- or 729 Presto Max Spin for backhand, these might be easier for you to handle and they all have more elastic top sheets and a tiny bit softer sponge.

 

[WingTT]

The old version of Long 5 had this kind of non linear behaviour but it is less pronounced/non-existent in the newer versions. You can try out other inner carbon blades to see if this is still an issue. The Sanwei Hynover did not have this kind of gear change feeling to me. If you don't have large hands that a blade you can try out. Not all outer ALC blades are stiff feeling. My Stiga Inspira Hybrid Carbon for example has the best combination of the characteristics of a Long 5 and an outer ALC blade. I think its the larger head size and normal slightly less than 6mm thickness that gives it just enough flexibility and hold feel.

You probably also want to use more forgiving rubbers than old school hard Chinese rubbers. Something like the Loki Arthur China for the forehand and Stiga Mantra Pro H BH makes things a lot easier to play and also have amazing performance and control.

 

[Gekko]

If you like the low end and the high end, then it sounds like you now need to experiment with different inner carbon blades to find one that matches when you want the ALC to activate.

 

[muhammad]

a soft top and second ply would make the blade bouncy. Hinoki blades are bouncier than limba blades since hinoki is softer, and blades that have ayous in second ply are more bouncy than similar blades with limba in second ply because ayous is softer than limba. Softness here measured by janka hardness - to avoid conflicts between stiffness and hardness and what not.

On the other hand stable non bouncy blades usually require more strength to activate the carbon, which make some shots like slow opening against back spin a bit difficult. If you are ok with this and you want a suggestion for a non bouncy carbon blade I suggest Gewo pbo inner - pbo is another name for zlc, it is thin (only 5.5mm) and it has two limba outer layers which is a rare design in an inner carbon blade - usually inner carbon blades have ayous in the middle layer. It is not bouncy and when you hit strong enough it becomes very fast.

Xiom has alxi which is similar to innerforce alc but with limba second ply instead of ayous, but I didnt' use it so I cannot recommend it. Maybe if you can find a club mate or a friend who has it you can try it.

 

[John_]

It's just how inner blades are. When you play soft, the ball can't reach the fiber and you play with the wood. Then the moment that enough power gets put in, the carbon gets activated and lowers the angle and increases the power.

It's similar to Vtec in Hondas, the moment a specific rpm is reached, the valves open up for more power, making it more aggressive. (Kind of... You get the point). Below that point, it's tuned for control and efficiency, similar to wood.

 

[darkky65]

It's just how inner blades are. When you play soft, the ball can't reach the fiber and you play with the wood. Then the moment that enough power gets put in, the carbon gets activated and lowers the angle and increases the power.

It's similar to Vtec in Hondas, the moment a specific rpm is reached, the valves open up for more power, making it more aggressive. (Kind of... You get the point). Below that point, it's tuned for control and efficiency, similar to wood.

after another session

it's exactly this. I just need to fine tune power / racket angle
low power and I need a pretty closed angle, the ALC layer needs a pretty open angle.
moving to the Sanwei Target Commercial from the Volant Phoenix seems to give me more room to breathe with its longer dwell.

i've got the BH side down pretty ok now but just need some more in-game practice.
i still might try a 7ply for more linearity, so i can choose which i prefer since hitting the ALC just right is SO SATISFYING!!

i could also use some basic robot drills to help with this, right now i am doing 30/60/90 power on both BH and FH, then will do that but while oscillating next time.

maybe some loop / push alternate drills will help fine tune my angles too.

 

[John_]

after another session

it's exactly this. I just need to fine tune power / racket angle
low power and I need a pretty closed angle, the ALC layer needs a pretty open angle.
moving to the Sanwei Target Commercial from the Volant Phoenix seems to give me more room to breathe with its longer dwell.

i've got the BH side down pretty ok now but just need some more in-game practice.
i still might try a 7ply for more linearity, so i can choose which i prefer since hitting the ALC just right is SO SATISFYING!!

i could also use some basic robot drills to help with this, right now i am doing 30/60/90 power on both BH and FH, then will do that but while oscillating next time.

maybe some loop / push alternate drills will help fine tune my angles too.

I really like inner zlc. The innerforce layer zlc is one of the best blades I've tried, right next to the viscaria.

For 7ply all wood, you can't go wrong with the clipper wood.

 

[SlowPower]

For me I found out that I dont like ALC in inner construction, so maybe another fiber does the trick.
I havent played ZLC inner (only outer) but glasfiber-carbon, basalt, hemp, linen, thin pure carbon.
They do not dampen so much, so i feel vibrations are closer to pure wood blades and the power kicks in more linear and controllable.

Maybe ZLC may as well work for you.

Or you try a soft outer blade with alc, limber and low weight under 85g as this should behave more linear too.

 

[darkky65]

For me I found out that I dont like ALC in inner construction, so maybe another fiber does the trick.
I havent played ZLC inner (only outer) but glasfiber-carbon, basalt, hemp, linen, thin pure carbon.
They do not dampen so much, so i feel vibrations are closer to pure wood blades and the power kicks in more linear and controllable.

Maybe ZLC may as well work for you.

Or you try a soft outer blade with alc, limber and low weight under 85g as this should behave more linear too.

ZLC Might be an option, since XVT has a cheap clone of the Innerforce ZLC.

but of course the cheapest option is for me to just get good.