Which is better for Jpen???

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I recently learned of the term 'hinoki' and now I'm quite interested. Is it better than carbon for Jpen, or is it not? What are the pros and cons of each?
Hinoki:
Pro: Ol'skool feel. Excellent feelin'. Many gears. Make magic happens. You don't own a hinoki, you merely look after for the next generation.
Cons: Expensive, mainly is a JPen thingy. Auto membership to exclusive Asian Ojisan club.

Carbon: Bleh! Meh!
 
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Hinoki:
Pro: Ol'skool feel. Excellent feelin'. Many gears. Make magic happens. You don't own a hinoki, you merely look after for the next generation.
Cons: Expensive, mainly is a JPen thingy. Auto membership to exclusive Asian Ojisan club.

Carbon: Bleh! Meh!
Why do you think carbon is meh?
 
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Why do you think carbon is meh?
Carbon is meh for exactly all the reason it is different from Hinoki. Don't know how to word it. It is just different be warned, once you go hinoki, you have entered into the path of no return, the event horizon so to speak.
 
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I recently learned of the term 'hinoki' and now I'm quite interested. Is it better than carbon for Jpen, or is it not? What are the pros and cons of each?
Some hinoki blades are made as a thick one ply. This makes them feel very special when hitting the sweet spot. But in the same time they are very fast and bouncy. They are made for speed and not so easy to spin with. The feeling seems to be addictive but there is nothing else that makes them better than any other blade. With carbon layers it is possible to change a lot of other playing characteristics.

Traditionally the game was a lot more about speed not so much spin and then a 1ply blade would be n beneficial.

Note that the feeling is not the same with multiple plies..

Gozo for instance doesn’t have much spin in his game so this type of blade may fit him but I thing he would benefit a lot by changing to a slower set up…

Cheers
L-zr
 
Some hinoki blades are made as a thick one ply. This makes them feel very special when hitting the sweet spot. But in the same time they are very fast and bouncy. They are made for speed and not so easy to spin with. The feeling seems to be addictive but there is nothing else that makes them better than any other blade. With carbon layers it is possible to change a lot of other playing characteristics.

Traditionally the game was a lot more about speed not so much spin and then a 1ply blade would be n beneficial.

Note that the feeling is not the same with multiple plies..

Gozo for instance doesn’t have much spin in his game so this type of blade may fit him but I thing he would benefit a lot by changing to a slower set up…

Cheers
L-zr
So does it make hinoki superior to carbon? Because I've heard that carbon makes rackets go faster, like hinoki.
What are the superiorities of carbon compared to hinoki, and vice versa?
 
Carbon is hard, whereas hinoki is soft. Hinoki bestows a level of touch and feeling that you absolutely cannot get with carbon.

I used to play jpen with 1-ply hinoki. I think this is where 1-ply hinoki is the most advantageous, since you put your fingers directly on the wood behind the ball. I played a chop-blocking and powerlooping game, rather than a driving game (driving game is more common). I used DHS Skyline 2, and the feeling of looping was like nothing else in the world. You can brush the ball so softly that your racket and elbow actually go ahead of the ball, and this is very confusing for the opponent. The chop-blocks with 1-ply hinoki and Chinese rubber are also incredible. If there's a feeling I could liken it to, it's like spreading warm butter on toast.

I play cpen now with RPB and I think the advantage of hinoki goes down a lot. Having rubber on both sides really dampens the feeling compared to bare wood on the back.

If you're looking for a 1-ply hinoki blade, I recommend Butterfly Cypress T-max. You can also try to get Darker Speed 90, but honestly I liked Cypress T-max more. DS90 is smaller than Cypress T-max, so if you have large hands like me that might be an issue.

Try it with sticky Chinese rubber, too. It's amazing. DHS Hurricane 3 or DHS Skyline 2.
 
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So does it make hinoki superior to carbon? Because I've heard that carbon makes rackets go faster, like hinoki.
What are the superiorities of carbon compared to hinoki, and vice versa?
All other aspects, 1 ply hinoki is very stiff, A carbon layer can make a blade hard but flexy and all other options.
There is an endless point of combinations.

1 ply hinoky blades are mainly used by old timers that don't need a lot of spin and are addicted to the feeling.

If You are a beginner I suggest a 5 ply all wood blade,

Cheers
L-zr
 
Can I answer (without getting kicked out of this thread) that Cpen is better than Jpen

ok, hiding under table now
Fair opinion, but I prefer the play style of Jpen over Cpen and Shakehand. Its offensive capabilities are the best of the three, and I like that.
 
All other aspects, 1 ply hinoki is very stiff, A carbon layer can make a blade hard but flexy and all other options.
There is an endless point of combinations.

1 ply hinoky blades are mainly used by old timers that don't need a lot of spin and are addicted to the feeling.

If You are a beginner I suggest a 5 ply all wood blade,

Cheers
L-zr
Interesting. So Hinoki's only advantage is speed and when the ball hits the sweet spot? So is it recommended over carbon for Jpen?
 
Interesting. So Hinoki's only advantage is speed and when the ball hits the sweet spot? So is it recommended over carbon for Jpen?
I would recommend it over carbon. Pro jpen players use hinoki. Hinoki is very common in the jpen community. You could play with carbon if you want, but I think carbon negates one of the major advantages of jpen -- the amount of feeling you can get from having your fingers directly on the wood behind the ball.
 
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Interesting. So Hinoki's only advantage is speed and when the ball hits the sweet spot? So is it recommended over carbon for Jpen?
This goes for a 1 ply blade. If you have multiple layers other rules comes into play…

Cheers
L-zr
 
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Its offensive capabilities are the best of the three, and I like that.
That is highly debatable, and even jpen heroes will probably disagree with you there in today's game.
PS. I know quite a few of them in person
 
That is highly debatable, and even jpen heroes will probably disagree with you there in today's game.
PS. I know quite a few of them in person
Oh really? How so?
Shakehand primarily focuses on both forehand and backhand, making it reliable, albeit not too powerful on both ends.
Cpen's fingers are curled, leading to weaker offense but the ability to create the iconic RPB.
Jpen's fingers are straight, maximizing attack on the forehand side but crippling the backhand side.

That is what I think for the 3 main grips, so I personally believe Jpen is the best attacker. Ofc, it depends on the player itself, but based on grip alone and no skill differences, Jpen is most likely the most powerful attacker of the 3.
 
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Oh really? How so?
Shakehand primarily focuses on both forehand and backhand, making it reliable, albeit not too powerful on both ends.
Cpen's fingers are curled, leading to weaker offense but the ability to create the iconic RPB.
Jpen's fingers are straight, maximizing attack on the forehand side but crippling the backhand side.

That is what I think for the 3 main grips, so I personally believe Jpen is the best attacker. Ofc, it depends on the player itself, but based on grip alone and no skill differences, Jpen is most likely the most powerful attacker of the 3.
there is no more jpen players any where on the elite stage in any country.
even cpen (which is stronger than jpen, hence that is why it lasted more than 1 to 2 decades longer) is slowly fading out.
Felix Lebrun is a rare case.

if Jpen is really so "special" as you put it, then you would see a lot more of them. but it is 1 to 2 decades gone already.
Jpen was good for speed, and that is 38mm days + speed glue
when 38 shifted to 40mm, it loss its speed
and it only have serves left and that too was lost when hidden serves was banned.

With modern table tennis today, jpen has no more advantages, so even jpen heroes turned coaches are avoiding jpen and teaching players to play shakehand rather.

hope that sums it up.

PS. I guess you haven't seen Ma Lin's forehand in person. he would out FH rally your jpen olympic champion or even the next 5 best jpen players any day. Felix would probably do too, even Xu Xin.
 
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Oh ok. But is 1 ply really better than multiple layers? (for Jpen)
Not really, it was used in the old times by jap players. There are still people who loves it but it’s difficult to spin with.

I’m just saying that the wood hinoki is famous for 1 ply blades.

Multiple layers are the norm in the modern world…

Cheers
L-zr
 
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