French Pro A 2024-2025

[NextLevel]

We had a recent discussion on another thread about MLTT players and how the league is getting old (the argument was that the more dynamic leagues in Europe like Pro A are younger). Well, we just saw Freitas vs Alamiyan. Now it is Pitchford vs. Picard, with Picard already up 1-0.

 

[piligrim]

It's different level

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

the argument was that the more dynamic leagues in Europe like Pro A are younger

not sure who told you that
However I did state that MLTT mustn't become another MLS, where world stars going over to get into retirement mode
unless you rate MLS as world class like the French Ligue 1, just like the comparison now between MLTT and Pro A?

 

[NextLevel]

It's different level

Of course it is a different level. Pitchford was displaying his "past prime" form. Could only beat Picard 3-1...

 

[NextLevel]

not sure who told you that
However I did state that MLTT mustn't become another MLS, where world stars going over to get into retirement mode
unless you rate MLS as world class like the French Ligue 1, just like the comparison now between MLTT and Pro A?

We are still waiting for Ma Long to become the Messi of MLTT... after that, I will agree with you lol....

 

[TampaBayTableTennis]

French A pays for extra legroom though (from UK to France)

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Of course it is a different level. Pitchford was displaying his "past prime" form. Could only beat Picard 3-1...

Good win
His 33% win rate goes up and moves closer to his career average

 

[piligrim]

Of course it is a different level. Pitchford was displaying his "past prime" form. Could only beat Picard 3-1...

WR58 beat WR 217

 

[NextLevel]

WR58 beat WR 217

Picard is buried on the France depth chart, so yeah, it's all about the stats. I am sure you can confirm that Rolland is top 100:

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Pitchford was WR 20 player just 2~3 years ago. he has been 30, then 40, now at 50 ranked.
am I correct to read that we are discussing if he did a good job beating players that are wr100 and 200?

if i am a club boss, those wins should actually be required.
in fact, I would want Pitchford to be beat wr50 players and higher.

Pro A win rate update for Pitchford, only 42%
he still looses more than he wins. that is fact. I truly hope he turns that around, now that he has Matt and Richard backing him.

 

[NextLevel]

Dima (r.18) lost to Pitchford when Pitchford was lower ranked (r.64) than he is now. Vincent Picard beat Yang Wang (ITTF Ranking in the top 100) at 3-0. He has taken good players the distance on the ITTF tour.

I know some of us only look at WR when we want to assess a player. But when a player can be dangerous on a good day, wins are wins.

Someone pointed out that all Pitchford's losses were to good players. But we are still arguing as if he lost to scrubs.

When list was posted of players Dima lost to and I pointed out they are all 2800+ players, there has been no response ever since.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Dima (r.18) lost to Pitchford when Pitchford was lower ranked (r.64) than he is now. Vincent Picard beat Yang Wang (ITTF Ranking in the top 100) at 3-0. He has taken good players the distance on the ITTF tour.

I know some of us only look at WR when we want to assess a player. But when a player can be dangerous on a good day, wins are wins.

Someone pointed out that all Pitchford's losses were to good players. But we are still arguing as if he lost to scrubs.

When list was posted of players Dima lost to and I pointed out they are all 2800+ players, there has been no response ever since.

the reason why pitchford is 64 or 58, is because he looses when he shouldn't be.
and why Dima can be top 20, Boll and Chuang remain higher than Pitchford at an older age, is because they wins are more consistent (you need to win to keep your points).
that is how world ranking works today
if he had gone 1 better (1 more win) more times, he would get back to 30 or 20.

i shared the win loss of pitchford already, he is loosing more nowadays, which is a sad thing.
1 win in Pro A doesn't change the fact he is loosing 6 and only wining 4 out of 10. With his skills, experience and ability, it should be min 5.5 win, and 4.5 loss imo.

over the pass 3 years, pitchford has been on the decline overall, and that is fact. not sure why you don't believe the stats

i don't really look at WR (since not many league players play WTT), However for WTT players, I use w/l stats, and both of them are on a decline sadly. so as I said, hopefully Matt and Richard will help change that trend

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Pitchford was WR 20 player just 2~3 years ago. he has been 30, then 40, now at 50 ranked.
am I correct to read that we are discussing if he did a good job beating players that are wr100 and 200?

if i am a club boss, those wins should actually be required.
in fact, I would want Pitchford to be beat wr50 players and higher.

Pro A win rate update for Pitchford, only 42%
he still looses more than he wins. that is fact. I truly hope he turns that around, now that he has Matt and Richard backing him.

What do you think the JOOLA sponsorship is going to do in terms of turning around his performance?

 

[NextLevel]

the reason why pitchford is 64 or 58, is because he looses when he shouldn't be.
and why Dima can be top 20, Boll and Chuang remain higher than Pitchford at an older age, is because they wins are more consistent (you need to win to keep your points).
that is how world ranking works today
if he had gone 1 better (1 more win) more times, he would get back to 30 or 20.

i shared the win loss of pitchford already, he is loosing more nowadays, which is a sad thing.
1 win in Pro A doesn't change the fact he is loosing 6 and only wining 4 out of 10. With his skills, experience and ability, it should be min 5.5 win, and 4.5 loss imo.

over the pass 3 years, pitchford has been on the decline overall, and that is fact. not sure why you don't believe the stats

i don't really look at WR (since not many league players play WTT), However for WTT players, I use w/l stats, and both of them are on a decline sadly. so as I said, hopefully Matt and Richard will help change that trend

View attachment 34643

Pitchford has been very explicit about the impact Covid has on him and his broader issues with mental health. He is playing worse but has not changed fundamentally as a player. Anyone can point to stats, stats also need to be interpreted and then the question is whether the interpretation allows you to explain the stats qualitatively and more insightfully or whether the stats have all the information.

As has been pointed out repeatedly which you have repeatedly ignored, Pitchford can lose to Aruna, Sun Wen, etc. And that doesn't really say much about his form. Is he playing worse than he was in his best performance period when he had a win over Ma Long before Covid yes. But that much worse? Not as far as I can see. But did Covid clearly affect his mental health issues and make him struggle more, yes. But so far, there is nothing that says he can't be a good player when the moment demands it. He showed this at the last event in Doha. But it is okay, continue to just cite stats, if they change, we can thank Joola or something ridiculous like that. The reality is that everyone goes through good and bad times. Quadri struggled for a period and then started jogging 6 miles a day yo get his playing weight down and then magically he started beating Chinese players again. I can't remember the last time CCY beat Dima, not sure if he ever did in recent years But Liam did what CCY struggled to do.

But everyone can use their own stats to tell their own stories.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

What do you think the JOOLA sponsorship is going to do in terms of turning around his performance?

well, I know the Joola people
I think in terms of support, and human relations, it is pretty decent to have.
I have dealt with over a dozen TT brands, so I can say, I know a bit about vendor relations

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Pitchford has been very explicit about the impact Covid has on him and his broader issues with mental health. He is playing worse but has not changed fundamentally as a player. Anyone can point to stats, stats also need to be interpreted and then the question is whether the interpretation allows you to explain the stats qualitatively and more insightfully or whether the stats have all the information.

As has been pointed out repeatedly which you have repeatedly ignored, Pitchford can lose to Aruna, Sun Wen, etc. And that doesn't really say much about his form. Is he playing worse than he was in his best performance period when he had a win over Ma Long before Covid yes. But that much worse? Not as far as I can see. But did Covid clearly affect his mental health issues and make him struggle more, yes. But so far, there is nothing that says he can't be a good player when the moment demands it. He showed this at the last event in Doha. But it is okay, continue to just cite stats, if they change, we can thank Joola or something ridiculous like that. The reality is that everyone goes through good and bad times. Quadri struggled for a period and then started jogging 6 miles a day yo get his playing weight down and then magically he started beating Chinese players again. I can't remember the last time CCY beat Dima, not sure if he ever did in recent years But Liam did what CCY struggled to do.

But everyone can use their own stats to tell their own stories.

I am sure at 31 years old CCY had better stats than Pitchford
you can go dig that up, since its all on ittf.com

covid effected a lot of players. Some CNT players haven't seen an event post covid too. It has hurt many
many players have mental issues.
does that make Pitchford special? yes, maybe
but end of the day, its performance that counts, and his for 2024 into 2025, is not great.
He is not an all star at the moment, so stop pointing him out to be one.

I have always said yes, he is able to become one again, and can upset those highly ranked, but his win ratio is bad. Only in MLTT he is 90%, every where else, he is half of that.... so do we just ignore that and blame it on covid and others?

does he get cheaper salary, because he has issues? or does he get paid as a world top 10 player?
you can't choose both hey and you trying to be his PR staff and to say everyone has good and bad times - that is true, but for how long?
Pitchford bad time is currently a 3 year stretch and is indeed a problem for a player of his caliber.
maybe his peak was a high, and there is no ways he can get back to that level? anything is possible, just like LYJ might never be a top 5 player whereas HT is a top 5 in terms of performance.

you see, you can ignore stats, but win loss matters when we talking performance. otherwise, we should just scrap everything and just look at players reputations.... lol. Some how, when talking about another player, you will probably want to talk about performance. So i'm not sure why for Pitchford, you trying to hide that under the carpet.

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

Chuang is 12 years older than Pitchford and at 31, was WR7
nice win rate too, and a heck lot more matches than Pitchford, in fact double. in fact the win ratio is double too.
Pitchford at the same age is playing half, and performance is less than half of Chuang... not a good sign. Bad idea to compare the 2.
I am sure at 31 years old, Chuang would probably have more wins with a 36 year old Dima.

so someone with a very "low" at the moment is number 1 in some league.

MLTT is not the only league that is "lowish". The Czech women's league is now. one of our players is there with 100% win rate. We boosted the opponents with 2 other of our players, but the 100% is still remaining 100%, only different is now she is dropping games, compared to 3-0 all the time.

I am arranging to upgrade her to another league, since you cant improve in that league any more.

How many people can challenge Pitchford in the MLTT?
compared to that of Pro A
that is the main point and why @piligrim said it is a different level.

 

[NextLevel]

I am sure at 31 years old CCY had better stats than Pitchford
you can go dig that up, since its all on ittf.com

covid effected a lot of players. Some CNT players haven't seen an event post covid too. It has hurt many
many players have mental issues.
does that make Pitchford special? yes, maybe
but end of the day, its performance that counts, and his for 2024 into 2025, is not great.
He is not an all star at the moment, so stop pointing him out to be one.

I have always said yes, he is able to become one again, and can upset those highly ranked, but his win ratio is bad. Only in MLTT he is 90%, every where else, he is half of that.... so do we just ignore that and blame it on covid and others?

does he get cheaper salary, because he has issues? or does he get paid as a world top 10 player?
you can't choose both hey and you trying to be his PR staff and to say everyone has good and bad times - that is true, but for how long?
Pitchford bad time is currently a 3 year stretch and is indeed a problem for a player of his caliber.
maybe his peak was a high, and there is no ways he can get back to that level? anything is possible, just like LYJ might never be a top 5 player whereas HT is a top 5 in terms of performance.

you see, you can ignore stats, but win loss matters when we talking performance. otherwise, we should just scrap everything and just look at players reputations.... lol. Some how, when talking about another player, you will probably want to talk about performance. So i'm not sure why for Pitchford, you trying to hide that under the carpet.

CCY is the greater player for sure, but he couldn't beat Ovtcharov in recent years. When CCY was 31 in 2011/2012, the ranking system was different and used both results and the quality of opponent to calculate rating. Pitchford would have fared better under that system than the current one because most of his losses are to good players and plenty of his wins are against high ranked players. Now, it is more about participation, playing events and going deep in events.

I am not ignoring stats, after all, I could cite the Ratings Central ranking of the players, but that is not the point of this. We can agree to disagree that stats need interpretation, you are just interpreting the stats in a way that supports your argument just as I am interpreting the stats in a way that supports mine. As for whether Pitchford still plays high level table tennis, it will become more and more obvious this year.

 

[Brs]

Maybe change the title of this thread from French Pro A, which actually sounds interesting, to More Arguing About Liam Pitchford, which does not?

 

[BetterTT]

I am sure at 31 years old CCY had better stats than Pitchford
you can go dig that up, since its all on ittf.com

covid effected a lot of players. Some CNT players haven't seen an event post covid too. It has hurt many
many players have mental issues.
does that make Pitchford special? yes, maybe
but end of the day, its performance that counts, and his for 2024 into 2025, is not great.
He is not an all star at the moment, so stop pointing him out to be one.

I have always said yes, he is able to become one again, and can upset those highly ranked, but his win ratio is bad. Only in MLTT he is 90%, every where else, he is half of that.... so do we just ignore that and blame it on covid and others?

does he get cheaper salary, because he has issues? or does he get paid as a world top 10 player?
you can't choose both hey and you trying to be his PR staff and to say everyone has good and bad times - that is true, but for how long?
Pitchford bad time is currently a 3 year stretch and is indeed a problem for a player of his caliber.
maybe his peak was a high, and there is no ways he can get back to that level? anything is possible, just like LYJ might never be a top 5 player whereas HT is a top 5 in terms of performance.

you see, you can ignore stats, but win loss matters when we talking performance. otherwise, we should just scrap everything and just look at players reputations.... lol. Some how, when talking about another player, you will probably want to talk about performance. So i'm not sure why for Pitchford, you trying to hide that under the carpet.

Tony is a very knowledgable guy......however, I think he presented some inaccurate information
Pitchford's record is MLTT is NOT 90% win ratio....not sure how you came up with that ratio
His MLTT record is 17 wins and 10 losses in single matches....63% win ratio......that is closer to 50% than it is to 90%...........you can look it up on the MLTT website.
He is one of the very best players in MLTT and a lot of fun to watch, but he is not totally crushing all of his opponents like many expected he would.