I want opinions on my chances of pro

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OP could just spend 2 weeks or 1 month in China or Japan see by himself what the international level is. air plane tickets are not that expensive these days

The truth is getting to the very top (international level) in ANY discipline not just sports, any hobby, or any profession...

and among the very top, the difference between the very top players is huge.

basically you should think with logarithmic scale.
between N1 and N2 as much difference than between N2 and N4, or N4 and N8 and N8 and N16, etc...every step to the top is more and more difficult...you need 2 times more talent and work to advance twice less than at previous level.

---
statistically starting seriously a sport at 11 --- or an instrument like piano or violin --- is really late.
he can reach a very high level but top international level is against the odds even with all his passion, doesn't mean its impossible and definitely worth trying !

statistically probably more chances to become a Nobel Prize or the next Warren Buffett than the next Ma Long, Messi or e-sports champion IMO
he doesn't even need to go to China
he just need to go to a proper full time center in USA, and he can see he is miles away from players younger than him
and then he can review how those stronger and younger players train and he can have an idea on what "others" do.

but he has a long list of excuses on why that is not possible (excuses to visit and see and that he has everything planned out already, he isn't hear asking what we think his chances are, he is telling us he can do it already).
 
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well, I will answer that question

that answer is if he continues with "what he thinks" he knows that he need to do (and everything is all "fine"), the answer is a big NO.

but, if he follows my suggestion of moving to a tier 1 table tennis center in Asia, his odds will increase to maybe a single digit percentage chance of reaching 2450 before 15 years old.
and 1 year in Germany is useless, need to move to Germany or where ever this year, for the next few years.

so since he refuses to listen, then his ignorance answers that question itself, hence I didn't answer and just based on his view that he can do it already with his current coach and his training partners.

PS. I have seen many players that are 2450 by 15. So i am not talking without merit. I am replying here only for the sake of other kids or parents who might take my input to heart and plan properly than assuming OP's will power is sufficient.

the road to Top 50 is painful and requires sacrifices and a big portion of sacrifices is the parents making them.
i have no interest to be OP's cheerleader but if any parent want to discuss, I am happy to share my view points.
 
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Please keep in mind, I mentioned you and linked your Cathay video right off the bat in this thread in order that he might see what top flight junior training and hours looks like - so no need to justify your credentials or "merit" to me.

However, I don't know that labeling an 11 year old who's proven to be nothing but honest about verifiable claims so far, and has had the bravery to put himself out here with both his goals, dreams, and video on demand with terms like "ignorance" or stating "he is telling us he can do it already" when he literally already asked a question about his chances of a much lower goal are altogether fair or kind.

I think some of the disconnect may be cultural/contextual. When he spoke of his dedication being better than his peers, I'd bet he was referring to American kids he's met - and in a country where schools are currently graduating kids who read at a sixth grade level, he's not wrong.*

When speaking of youths around the world working to make it to the top in TT - he needed to be enlightened as to the facilities/standards/hours devoted outside his limited experience (again, that's why I shared your video).

You, I, and many others have pointed out in a variety of ways that the odds are stacked against him. And many have offered constructive advice on how he might improve those odds, however slim they may be.

It sounds like he is largely self-motivated, rather than parent-pushed eg. Venus and Serena. And if I'm right about that, please go back and read the bits in his original post about the regimen this 11 year old has built for himself. *I dare say many American parents would be over the moon if their children were even fractionally as motivated/disciplined/hard-working as young Mr. K.

I'd wager a lot that if he had access to the millions you've repeatedly referred to as necessary, he'd already be working on convincing his folks to allow/facilitate the sort of things you recommend. Hell, before posting here he'd already somehow managed to arrange three months in Portugal and has language education in the works. And after hearing others here suggest he get to France/Sweden/Germany he's asked for more info on how he might do so.

Given what we know of young Mr K so far - if I were ridiculously wealthy, I'd happily fund getting him to Taiwan for a while so you and he could see what's what. But unfortunately for us, I'm not. More realistically, if I were an executive at the company (Joola) that sponsors the highly rated club in his region, MDTTC, and reading this thread - I'd be working to see what all I could do to support getting young Mr K there as soon and as often as possible. Children with his innate drive and discipline may be a dime a dozen in your part of the world, but they're relatively thin on the ground in the ol' US.

Again, I do not discount your experience in the slightest. And I'm not suggesting coddling/feeding the young man cotton candy flavored bs. However, I'm not sure he deserves to be called ignorant, or accused of refusing to listen. Sounds to me as if he's working on wrapping his head around what's been said here, trying to figure out what more he can do to achieve his goals and dreams within the bounds of his folks' expectations and resources, while continuing to express his true grit.
 
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Please keep in mind, I mentioned you and linked your Cathay video right off the bat in this thread in order that he might see what top flight junior training and hours looks like - so no need to justify your credentials or "merit" to me.

However, I don't know that labeling an 11 year old who's proven to be nothing but honest about verifiable claims so far, and has had the bravery to put himself out here with both his goals, dreams, and video on demand with terms like "ignorance" or stating "he is telling us he can do it already" when he literally already asked a question about his chances of a much lower goal are altogether fair or kind.

I think some of the disconnect may be cultural/contextual. When he spoke of his dedication being better than his peers, I'd bet he was referring to American kids he's met - and in a country where schools are currently graduating kids who read at a sixth grade level, he's not wrong.*

When speaking of youths around the world working to make it to the top in TT - he needed to be enlightened as to the facilities/standards/hours devoted outside his limited experience (again, that's why I shared your video).

You, I, and many others have pointed out in a variety of ways that the odds are stacked against him. And many have offered constructive advice on how he might improve those odds, however slim they may be.

It sounds like he is largely self-motivated, rather than parent-pushed eg. Venus and Serena. And if I'm right about that, please go back and read the bits in his original post about the regimen this 11 year old has built for himself. *I dare say many American parents would be over the moon if their children were even fractionally as motivated/disciplined/hard-working as young Mr. K.

I'd wager a lot that if he had access to the millions you've repeatedly referred to as necessary, he'd already be working on convincing his folks to allow/facilitate the sort of things you recommend. Hell, before posting here he'd already somehow managed to arrange three months in Portugal and has language education in the works. And after hearing others here suggest he get to France/Sweden/Germany he's asked for more info on how he might do so.

Given what we know of young Mr K so far - if I were ridiculously wealthy, I'd happily fund getting him to Taiwan for a while so you and he could see what's what. But unfortunately for us, I'm not. More realistically, if I were an executive at the company (Joola) that sponsors the highly rated club in his region, MDTTC, and reading this thread - I'd be working to see what all I could do to support getting young Mr K there as soon and as often as possible. Children with his innate drive and discipline may be a dime a dozen in your part of the world, but they're relatively thin on the ground in the ol' US.

Again, I do not discount your experience in the slightest. And I'm not suggesting coddling/feeding the young man cotton candy flavored bs. However, I'm not sure he deserves to be called ignorant, or accused of refusing to listen. Sounds to me as if he's working on wrapping his head around what's been said here, trying to figure out what more he can do to achieve his goals and dreams within the bounds of his folks' expectations and resources, while continuing to express his true grit.
That is why I said he should visit top USA clubs first and he can see and not compare with normal kids in his club.

But few other said it too and he has his excuses. His coach is tops, his top sparring partner cant make it and he has it all planned out and I should wait and see.
I didn't read the others about portugual.... or 3 months but anyways, it is okay not to make it to wr50 but if the kid really want to give it a shot, then he needs to be an empty glass.

He should look at maybe top 50 or 20 in USA first and hopefully he can start making moves this year, not when he is too old to improve. The kid we have on this side could not crack top 10 in u13 in USA as a late starter like op. The parents couldn't give him anymore frankly speaking and the resource was incredible. The little dude has so much resource and talent and even more drive than op imo. Despite full time TT, he still has great academic results - that kid really had a good plan and very mature for his age when it came to planing and time management, but table tennis is just one of those sports where the younger you start, the chances increases so much more. And catching up is just near impossible.

2600, op could get a good income as a coach, so his life wont be in ruins when he fails to hit a pro career. Question is, if the folks are up for the risk taking too and what happens if all the sacrifices and he can't get pass 2300
 
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That is why I said he should visit top USA clubs first and he can see and not compare with normal kids in his club.

But few other said it too and he has his excuses. His coach is tops, his top sparring partner cant make it and he has it all planned out and I should wait and see.
I didn't read the others about portugual.... or 3 months but anyways, it is okay not to make it to wr50 but if the kid really want to give it a shot, then he needs to be an empty glass.

He should look at maybe top 50 or 20 in USA first and hopefully he can start making moves this year, not when he is too old to improve. The kid we have on this side could not crack top 10 in u13 in USA as a late starter like op. The parents couldn't give him anymore frankly speaking and the resource was incredible. The little dude has so much resource and talent and even more drive than op imo. Despite full time TT, he still has great academic results - that kid really had a good plan and very mature for his age when it came to planing and time management, but table tennis is just one of those sports where the younger you start, the chances increases so much more. And catching up is just near impossible.

2600, op could get a good income as a coach, so his life wont be in ruins when he fails to hit a pro career. Question is, if the folks are up for the risk taking too and what happens if all the sacrifices and he can't get pass 2300

Yes, it's summer, OP should book time at a club like ICC/888/MDTTC/etc. to experience the program of top juniors.

US Open in Dec.

These will give OP a reality check to see where he stands in his age group. As noted by many, he is way behind.
 
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Yes, it's summer, OP should book time at a club like ICC/888/MDTTC/etc. to experience the program of top juniors.

US Open in Dec.

These will give OP a reality check to see where he stands in his age group. As noted by many, he is way behind.
I’m in a summer camp right now where I practice six days a week eight hours a day
 
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I’m in a summer camp right now where I practice six days a week eight hours a day
what levels are the other kids you are training with? are you the strongest or are you the weakest - maybe a bit easier for you to answer.
videos of the training?
 
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A lot of repeating of things happening now but also a lot of important points that haven't been addressed by @KTableTennis yet. To try to move this along, one very important point I haven't seen KTT respond to yet is that he needs to be practicing with the best and being coached by the best if he wants even a small chance to be the best. A lot of people on this thread now have pointed out that, even within the region that he lives in, there is a club with a history of developing national team juniors, and KTT does not go to this club. I would like to hear more about why, besides for that his current 2400 coach, with no history of developing top talent, is "very very good".

Even if moving to another state or country is not possible, the least you can do is go to the local club that has successfully gotten students to where you want to go.

Clearly KTT likes his coach. But working with a coach who hasn't proven that he can take a student to the top, and going to a club that doesn't appear to attract the top players in the area, well, I don't see a good chance of that giving the type of results you are looking for.
 
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Yes, it's summer, OP should book time at a club like ICC/888/MDTTC/etc. to experience the program of top juniors.

US Open in Dec.

These will give OP a reality check to see where he stands in his age group. As noted by many, he is way behind.
Not possible to pay your way into the training program at 888
 
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Not possible to pay your way into the training program at 888
yep
if your level is too low, the coaches "may" not want to work with you, as every top coach wants to work with the next potential super star

and very important is to know your competition - so many hard working kids are watching match videos of they opponents during free time. I am sure our super hard working, dedicated op kid is doing the same

Team USA pan-am camp

1753672026106.jpeg
 
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what levels are the other kids you are training with? are you the strongest or are you the weakest - maybe a bit easier for you to answer.
videos of the training?
My training group has around 4 people including me. I mainly train with this one kid who is 1850 but he is very good and consistent he is a very strong 1850 also a lot I practice with a 14 year old that is like 2100. Almost everyday I practice with my other coach who is like 2300. My group is pretty strong
 
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yep
if your level is too low, the coaches "may" not want to work with you, as every top coach wants to work with the next potential super star

and very important is to know your competition - so many hard working kids are watching match videos of they opponents during free time. I am sure our super hard working, dedicated op kid is doing the same

Team USA pan-am camp

View attachment 37168
I also watch a LOT of match videos of pros everyday 🤣
 
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A lot of repeating of things happening now but also a lot of important points that haven't been addressed by @KTableTennis yet. To try to move this along, one very important point I haven't seen KTT respond to yet is that he needs to be practicing with the best and being coached by the best if he wants even a small chance to be the best. A lot of people on this thread now have pointed out that, even within the region that he lives in, there is a club with a history of developing national team juniors, and KTT does not go to this club. I would like to hear more about why, besides for that his current 2400 coach, with no history of developing top talent, is "very very good".

Even if moving to another state or country is not possible, the least you can do is go to the local club that has successfully gotten students to where you want to go.

Clearly KTT likes his coach. But working with a coach who hasn't proven that he can take a student to the top, and going to a club that doesn't appear to attract the top players in the area, well, I don't see a good chance of that giving the type of results you are looking for.
I am going to start going to MDTTC during the school year every weekend to train with the highest level of kids there. I would like to ask. If my coach isn’t “good” then how am I already playing like a 1900 after less than a year?

A little bit more about my club. In 2020 it was taken over by the current owner, and that is why it hasn’t developed top juniors. Because it was only taken over by him 5 years ago, and right now there are a bunch of juniors that are in training with him including me. You can also check out my club at its website at WDCTT.com
 
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If my coach isn’t “good” then how am I already playing like a 1900 after less than a year?
I didn't say your coach isn't good, but I addressed this in my first comment on this thread.


1) First off, 0 to 1800/1900 in one year is very good progress. However, you starting at 11, is in fact quite late compared to your competition, so you will have to make up time. As said, you need hours on hours on hours BUT they need to be quality hours, see point 3. You probably know this already. Sounds like you're off to a good start. Keep in mind that getting to 1800 is the "easy" part of early training, so don't be surprised or discouraged if you aren't gaining several hundred points per year in the coming years, this is expected and part of the process.

3) Find the best coaches and practice partners in your area if you are not already. This matters a lot. While your early progress is very good, what is more important is the foundation you are setting up now and how well that will grow with you later. Training with the best is how you can ensure to hone this. This is not to scare you but many kids have improved fast early on but then hit a wall shortly after because they did not set the correct foundation during their early days. I am not saying this is you necessarily. You mentioned your coach has a record of getting people from 1800 to 2000 or something but when I read this that sounds meaningless to me. You need to be working with coaches who have developed champions, not 2000 players, if this is your goal. Tough reality, but nearly all of the junior or national champions from the USA either lived in or moved as children to the regions and clubs with the top coaches and players to practice with (Bay Area, New Jersey, Southern California).

A little bit more about my club. In 2020 it was taken over by the current owner, and that is why it hasn’t developed top juniors. Because it was only taken over by him 5 years ago, and right now there are a bunch of juniors that are in training with him including me. You can also check out my club at its website at WDCTT.com
I did my research of the website before commenting as I also said before. Reality is that 5 years is enough to develop players beyond 2000 and to even start sending them to national team lower age groups and it doesn't look like your coach has done that yet based on the players registered to your club on USATT. Maybe he is new to coaching and is a really good and talented coach who can take players to levels beyond his own 2400 level, maybe not. The question many in this thread are asking is why do you want to take that chance when you have a club and coaches in your region with actual proven history of developing national team junior players, 2400, 2500+?
 
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I didn't say your coach isn't good, but I addressed this in my first comment on this thread.





I did my research of the website before commenting as I also said before. Reality is that 5 years is enough to develop players beyond 2000 and to even start sending them to national team lower age groups and it doesn't look like your coach has done that yet based on the players registered to your club on USATT. Maybe he is new to coaching and is a really good and talented coach who can take players to levels beyond his own 2400 level, maybe not. The question many in this thread are asking is why do you want to take that chance when you have a club and coaches in your region with actual proven history of developing national team junior players, 2400, 2500+?
Because the first two juniors he started coaching didn’t take it seriously until they were older. I also know enough about him to know that he is a very good coach. Oh, Did you look at the website?
 
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Because the first two juniors he started coaching didn’t take it seriously until they were older. I also know enough about him to know that he is a very good coach. Oh, Did you look at the website?
We're going in circles here. You can call it "very good", but the simple fact is that he has no experience in coaching someone to the top USA junior level. Or beyond that, which you've stated is your goal.

Coaching experience matters, and training someone to high amateur level is very different than coaching them to elite or world class level.

As I've said repeatedly, there is a reason that every top junior in the USA now was coached by a combination of top players and top coaches with much more than 5 years of coaching experience, and in many cases, moved to professional training environments in their teen years.

If you think you will be one exception to this rule, good luck!
 
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We're going in circles here. You can call it "very good", but the simple fact is that he has no experience in coaching someone to the top USA junior level. Or beyond that, which you've stated is your goal.

Coaching experience matters, and training someone to high amateur level is very different than coaching them to elite or world class level.

As I've said repeatedly, there is a reason that every top junior in the USA now was coached by a combination of top players and top coaches with much more than 5 years of coaching experience, and in many cases, moved to professional training environments in their teen years.

If you think you will be one exception to this rule, good luck!
the kid has its all planned
he isn't here asking for our opinions, what do we know, right
 
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