Blade upgrade from Korbel (Japan)

[ginny]

Hello everyone ! I've played table tennis since 2023, my current blade: Butterfly Petr Korbel (Japan) + 2 Nittaku Fastarc G-1.
Even though I have 2 years experience, I still want to upgrade my racket.
I need something not too fast and a bit faster then Korbel (Japan).
I had training sessions with coach, I played some tournaments and I found out my main problems:
I can't create spin with my backhand and don't have much control from my forehand. The blade is nice, but when I hit with my all, the ball is not a threat for my opponent and they always counter my shot or loop it even faster. So I found out that the problem is Nittaku Fastarc G-1 rubber. I was beginner and I couldn't do much with this rubber, because it's hard to play, big catapult effect and not that easy to learn. I tried 3 rackets, Timo boll alc + 2 dignics 80 and I absolutely love it, my shots were super fast, a lot of control, but it was just 5 min experience continuously looping and I think I won't handle timo boll with 2 dignics. Also I tried Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon with 2 Xiom vega Europe and this rubber for backhand I think is the best rubber I've ever had. It's so easy to create spin and control, you can shot and do everything with this rubber, so I will definitely buy this rubber for my backhand. Also I tried super fast racket Donic Skachkov carbon with 2 xiom vega europe and even this racket was way too fast, I liked ximo vega europe backhand site. Also I tried Yinhe Jupiter 3 Asia (39 degrees) rubber for forehand on some Yinhe All+ blade and I was surprised how easy I can do top spin and control the ball with this rubber.
So I think from my current Korbel (Japan) and 2 fastarc g-1 I want to buy more control rubbers and a bit fast blade, can someone please recommend blade with Xiom Vega Europe backhand and Yinhe Jupiter 3 Asia forehand? I read that hadraw 5 or Harimoto innerforce alc would be nice but I don't know if these rubbers fits well on these blades. I know that I can stay with my Korbel but I want to switch this blade, it's nice but I just don't enjoy it.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

i used to play with Korbel with a decade or so
my path after this was Butterfly Korbel > Nittaku Acoustic Inner > Tibhar MK Carbon > ZJK Tamca5000

i remember the transition from Korbel to Acoustic Inner was very smooth

 

[TT Lover]

i used to play with Korbel with a decade or so
my path after this was Butterfly Korbel > Nittaku Acoustic Inner > Tibhar MK Carbon > ZJK Tamca5000

i remember the transition from Korbel to Acoustic Inner was very smooth

What FH and BH rubber you put on your ZJK Tamca 5000.

Thank you sir.
Best regards,

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

What FH and BH rubber you put on your ZJK Tamca 5000.

Thank you sir.
Best regards,

Right now it’s Dignics 05 FH and 80 in BH as is mentioned on my profile. I used to play with T80 and D80 on the acoustic inner iirc

 

[TackyForehand]

"Timo boll alc + 2 dignics 80 and I absolutely love it, my shots were super fast, a lot of control, but it was just 5 min experience continuously looping and I think I won't handle timo boll with 2 dignics."

Use it until you love it no more

 

[po-stit]

I would say that Harimoto ALC is the next logical step. Still, i think you have to think about what you don't enjoy about the blade so we can help you. The Harimoto has a similar feeling to the Korbel in my opinion.
What i found with all wood blades vs ALC is that sometimes feel a little springy. At least my Acoustic felt that way vs my Harimoto ALC.

 

[WadaWada]

as someone mentioned, Harimoto ALC or the inner version (the one Harimoto actually uses I think) pair it with g-1 or faster rubbers 09c / 05

 

[Egon]

I have a few thoughts, maybe they will help you.

Jupiter 3 is very good on booster. Without booster it is half the productivity. But in any case it will be a step forward. When you glue new rubber it will be good for 2-3 weeks, after that the factory booster will evaporate and J3 will become noticeably harder and slower. If you are not going to boost, then it is better to choose 38 hardness.

G1 is quite a hard rubber for backhand, so Vega Europe will be a good choice for you. Rakza 7 will also be a good.

Now we need to decide on the blade.
Each of the thousands of blades, in my opinion, can be attributed to two main types of blades - long-stroke and short-stroke.
- Short-stroke blades work better on short sharp strokes. These include hard blades with external carbon reinforcement like Viscaria, Timo Bol ALC, Primorac Carbon and others, as well as all-wood 7-layer blades and single-layer blades with a thick core. Players who use them have short but sharp movements - Timo Boll, Fan Zhendong, Zhang Jike and a very striking example of modern players is Kanak Jha, who plays Super ALC.
- Long-stroke blades have internal reinforcement with carbon or another fiber - Innerforce Series, Ovcharov, Harimoto, Long 5 and others, as well as 5-layer flexible all-wood blades. Players who play them prefer powerful but longer movements - Ma Long, Wang Chuqin, Dima Ovcharov and other players.

Look at yourself and determine what type of player you are more like. Then make your choice.
If you look at the blade development tree on the Butterfly website, after All-wood blades the next step will be the Outerforce series in the case of a short-stroke blade or the transition to long-stroke Innerforce series.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Hello everyone ! I've played table tennis since 2023, my current blade: Butterfly Petr Korbel (Japan) + 2 Nittaku Fastarc G-1.
Even though I have 2 years experience, I still want to upgrade my racket.
I need something not too fast and a bit faster then Korbel (Japan).
I had training sessions with coach, I played some tournaments and I found out my main problems:
I can't create spin with my backhand and don't have much control from my forehand. The blade is nice, but when I hit with my all, the ball is not a threat for my opponent and they always counter my shot or loop it even faster. So I found out that the problem is Nittaku Fastarc G-1 rubber. I was beginner and I couldn't do much with this rubber, because it's hard to play, big catapult effect and not that easy to learn. I tried 3 rackets, Timo boll alc + 2 dignics 80 and I absolutely love it, my shots were super fast, a lot of control, but it was just 5 min experience continuously looping and I think I won't handle timo boll with 2 dignics. Also I tried Yasaka Ma Lin Carbon with 2 Xiom vega Europe and this rubber for backhand I think is the best rubber I've ever had. It's so easy to create spin and control, you can shot and do everything with this rubber, so I will definitely buy this rubber for my backhand. Also I tried super fast racket Donic Skachkov carbon with 2 xiom vega europe and even this racket was way too fast, I liked ximo vega europe backhand site. Also I tried Yinhe Jupiter 3 Asia (39 degrees) rubber for forehand on some Yinhe All+ blade and I was surprised how easy I can do top spin and control the ball with this rubber.
So I think from my current Korbel (Japan) and 2 fastarc g-1 I want to buy more control rubbers and a bit fast blade, can someone please recommend blade with Xiom Vega Europe backhand and Yinhe Jupiter 3 Asia forehand? I read that hadraw 5 or Harimoto innerforce alc would be nice but I don't know if these rubbers fits well on these blades. I know that I can stay with my Korbel but I want to switch this blade, it's nice but I just don't enjoy it.

Blade matrix｜Blades｜Butterfly Global Site: Table Tennis Equipment

Blade matrix | Introduction of Butterfly’s products such as rubbers and blades supporting top table tennis players all over the world. Table tennis equipment brand Butterfly by Tamasu Co., Ltd. since 1950.

www.butterfly-global.com

if one was to follow BTY official info, the step wise progression is Primorac --> Korbel ---> Falcima ---> SK7 for all wood products.

Carbon is another story for another time.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Gozo says:

1. Noob level: Primorac with two sheets of Sriver
2. Not so noob: Korbel with two sheets of Rozena.
3. No more noob: Fakcima with Tenergy and Fx on BH
4. Club Vet: SK7 with Dignics series

There, your progression map out by Gozo; Helping the EJ community since 2021.

 

[Shifu]

Clearly (Harimoto) Innerforce ALC. Almost same structure but with carbon instead of 1 wood layer.

 

[steve888]

I moved from Korbel to Nitaku acoustic inner-carbon alc and then Butterfly innerforce layer alc. Either of those would be fine. Get more speed without losing to much control. Both have Limba outers, which gives plenty of dwell time and helps with control.

You could also try the new Butterfly outerforce alc that was in the diagram from Egon.

 

[disaster3]

I never liked Innerstructure blades (and still don't like) so it shouldn't be the obvious "next step" from the all-wood
blade. There are always several parallel paths
If it comes to Korbel JPN - classic 5ply allwood blade. one of the choice might be Innerstructre blade, other might be 7ply allwood blade, another one might be OuterStructure but w/o carbon (i.e. Xiom Hal, BTY Timo Boll ZLF), or even Outerstructure with Carbon but those with lower speed.
All of them might be the natural next step from classic 5ply allwood blade, but they are completely different in feeling, behavior and any other.
As mentioned I never liked Innerstructure blades but love TB ZLF and then Viscaria ALC, so this was my natural path.

 

[Egon]

Clearly (Harimoto) Innerforce ALC. Almost same structure but with carbon instead of 1 wood layer.

Not quite so. If you compare with Korbel, then Korbel has the structure Limba/Limba/Ayous/Limba/Limba, and Innerforce ALC has the structure Limba/Ayous/ALC/Ayous/ALC/Ayous/Limba.
And if you compare Harimoto ALC and Innerforce ALC, then these are the same structures, but the blade head size is different - Harimoto ALC has a larger blade head than Innerforce ALC.

 

[hypersonic]

How would the 7 plies -- SK7, Clipper, and Samsonov Force Pro Black edition -- compare with each other? All have similar layers.

 

[Egon]

If the question is for me, then I don’t like 7-layer all-wood blades, so I won’t compare them.

 

[beeray1]

Not quite so. If you compare with Korbel, then Korbel has the structure Limba/Limba/Ayous/Limba/Limba, and Innerforce ALC has the structure Limba/Ayous/ALC/Ayous/ALC/Ayous/Limba.
And if you compare Harimoto ALC and Innerforce ALC, then these are the same structures, but the blade head size is different - Harimoto ALC has a larger blade head than Innerforce ALC.

Honestly this is another reason it's a good pick though - the Korbel and Harimoto ALC have the exact same head shape/size.

 

[ginny]

What about XIOM Hayabusa ZL Pro ?

 

[steve888]

I found the innerforce an easy progression from the Butterfly Korbel (Japan), gained both speed and spin without losing control. Just a little less feeling but it still has some of that wood feel.

 

[Egon]

Honestly this is another reason it's a good pick though - the Korbel and Harimoto ALC have the exact same head shape/size.

That's exactly it!
By the way, I personally like blades with a head size of 158x151 mm and a handle length of 103 mm. At the same time the Butterfly standard is 157x150 mm and a handle length of 100 mm. These three millimeters in the handle, it would seem, are a trifle, but in fact they balance the enlarged head of the blade and it is much more comfortable for me to hold the handle. The enlarged head of the blade gives me more power in strong shots and, in my opinion, increased control. In addition, you can always make a smaller one from a larger one Therefore, for ourselves and the guys who ask us to make a blade for them, we make a larger head.
By the way, if anyone did not know, the frequency of the blade increases with a decrease in the head size. We made such measurements on the same blade before and after trimming to the standard.