Is it unfair to say “yes”/“cho” when the opponent makes an error?

[Matteones]

Harimoto has perfected ethical screaming of cho lei!

My personal view though is that "cho lei!" should be left for Chinese only. All others should come up with their own local motivational cries that reflects their national personality. (Gauzy's Allez! allez! for example). Just once, I'd like to hear Alvaro cry out "Bravo! Viva!" or Hina Hayata go "Gojira! Mothra!"

To be fair, here in Spain I hear a lot of "Vamos". I am italian and I like it and use it a lot, I think I'm allowed being a resident here

 

[joshmak10]

The only things you shouldn't celebrate are a net, an edge, or when the opponent messes up their service. Everything else is fair game

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

should not celebrate with lucky points, every other point you can celebrate.
if your opponent can't handle it, then celebrate more.

 

[Gozo Zyreruna]

Spoiler: My personal favourite!

 

[merlin el mago]

Guys always deserve respect for your opponent, for your sport and last but not less yourself.

I only celebrate my winners the opponent can't manage.

When I celebrate I rotate my body 180º so my opponent don't see my face plenty of happiness and only listen my "cho" but never scream & shout to not offend.

 

[NextLevel]

There is no correct answer here, it's more a personal and cultural thing because as someone pointed out, it is a zero sum game so you benefit from opponents mistakes and your lucky shots. In principle, anything good for you should be celebrated.

The line between luck and your effort is thin. Did the opponent serve into the net because you were lucky or because your pressure on serve return made him try really hard to be tight? When you hit the net and the edge, was it because you took maximum risk or because your ball just happened to hit the net and the edge?

I don't even really celebrate and I play a guy who complains every time he plays me because my drives often hit the net when I play him. Of course he isn't playing fast topspins to make me rally he is often blocking the ball short with dead or backspin effect so my arc on my shots to make them threatening is limited. Yet I am somehow at fault for hitting the net and am getting lucky to win points.

There was a time I used to want to return to quieter celebrations. I used ro hate going to places where I would face obnoxiously loud kids cheered on by parents and coaches while I was alone and by myself hitting the ball and asking wtf I was doing there. Eventually I decided if you can't beat them, fight them with their weapons and I started motivating myself too. Sometimes I am louder than the opponent and it creates its own spectacle. Sometimes, it doesn't result in my playing my best table tennis. But sometimes some noisemaking helps so I don't think about it anymore. I just do what feels comfortable in the moment.

 

[NextLevel]

The only things you shouldn't celebrate are a net, an edge, or when the opponent messes up their service. Everything else is fair game

Do you have to apologize for them? And what is wrong with celebrating them if they are a result of your risk-taking and effort?

Not disagreeing with you as much as I am playing devil's advocate.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

absolutely fair !
if he doesn't like it, just do it more often ! maybe he won't resist the pressure and you'll get an easier match !

 

[suds79]

If you're around the game long enough, sooner or later you just see this. You just largely ignore it.

Now do I give a yes or cho off a clear error? No. I think it's a little bad form. So from that standpoint, I see the point they're trying to make. At the same time, I understand there's an element of quality of one's shot can lead to an error.

Would I ever now say something to an opponent over it after a loss? Nah. Would just come off as sour grapes.

Ultimately choing or not someone is going to be happy if when they win, disappointed when they lose and that's when possible comments can come out. Just ignore any that come your way when you win, don't comment when you lose. All you do is just say "good game" and move on.

Anybody ever effected by choing, bm or not, will then be effected by people who do it as a sort of gamesmanship to get under your skin. So it can be tactical. No shortage of those people. Don't let them win by letting it effect you.

 

[d3nium]

Anyone who bellows "Chole" at local league level after winning a point is a grade A tit.

It's local league, not WTT, they sound ridiculous.

 

[joshmak10]

Do you have to apologize for them? And what is wrong with celebrating them if they are a result of your risk-taking and effort?

Not disagreeing with you as much as I am playing devil's advocate.

Mostly my argument stems from sportsmanship. I personally don’t see why I would celebrate a point I won from a strike stroke of luck, even if it was a result of my effort.

It’s not even an apology imo, just an acknowledgement of the luck you got. Forgot who said this originally. And if they miss their serve, do I really need to be the Draymond Green of TT and be disliked by the vast majority of the TT world?

 

[joshmak10]

Anyone who bellows "Chole" at local league level after winning a point is a grade A tit.

It's local league, not WTT, they sound ridiculous.

I think there is a difference between those who are doing it because they are passionate, and those who are doing it in a dickwad way, and you can tell pretty easily imo

 

[NextLevel]

Mostly my argument stems from sportsmanship. I personally don’t see why I would celebrate a point I won from a strike stroke of luck, even if it was a result of my effort.

It’s not even an apology imo, just an acknowledgement of the luck you got. Forgot who said this originally. And if they miss their serve, do I really need to be the Draymond Green of TT and be disliked by the vast majority of the TT world?

I guess it depends on whether Draymond Green is motivated to play the way he does without that personality. But like I said, for the idea of competing your best, I dont think there are any right or wrong answers. And in the absence of rules against it, it is important to do what you think is right while developing some grit and antifragility to handle the loads of crap that can get thrown at you in this game.

 

[ThePongCommenter]

Anyone who bellows "Chole" at local league level after winning a point is a grade A tit.

It's local league, not WTT, they sound ridiculous.

So having passion for the game is restricted to professionals?

 

[joshmak10]

I guess it depends on whether Draymond Green is motivated to play the way he does without that personality. But like I said, for the idea of competing your best, I dont think there are any right or wrong answers. And in the absence of rules against it, it is important to do what you think is right while developing some grit and antifragility to handle the loads of crap that can get thrown at you in this game.

Yeah I agree it just depends on what works for you. If your opponent doesn’t like it, who really cares what they think as long as you don’t do anything illegal. Do what you believe is right but be prepared for any backlash

 

[PickleRick]

Hi everyone,

I had a situation in my latest regional match that left me a bit puzzled, and I’d like to hear what others think.

I won the match 3–1, and right after we shook hands, my opponent came over and told me he didn’t think it was fair that I said “yes” or “cho” on points where he made a mistake. I was honestly surprised. I told him that I never celebrate lucky points, but that I do think it’s completely fine to express myself when I win a rally – even if the final shot is his error.

He replied that he had never experienced that before. I said that, from my perspective, forcing an error is also part of earning the point. He just smiled, shook his head, and didn’t say anything more.

What’s your take on this?

Is it considered bad etiquette to vocalize after points that end in the opponent’s mistake? Or is it just part of normal match intensity?

It has nothing to do with 'fair' or 'bad etiquette'. It's a personal thing. I personally don't really celebrate when I win a point. Sometimes I do say something like 'come on' if I win a very tight match or set. Whenever I face a loud opponent who constantly screams 'cho' or 'yes' after every point he wins, it makes me laugh. I just think he's making a fool of himself.

Most of the time the players who celebrate the loudest when they win a point are also the players who complain the most when they lose a point because of an edge, a net, a distraction, etc.

So no, it's not bad etiquette or unfair. It just looks ridiculous most of the time if you are an amateur adult who is screaming and shouting after winning some points in a game of table tennis. And other players will probably make fun of you if you really overdo it.

But if it makes you play better and you feel good about it, keep on cho'ing! I personally don't need it to motivate me.

 

[NextLevel]

While it isn't perfectly applicable to the OP's post, I wish I could copy the video of Lebesson playing Angela Guan in thr golden game between Chicago and I can't remember the other team. Angela Guan is at best 2400 USATT. Lebesson is 2750+. Yet you could hear Lebesson cho after pretty much every winner he hit. I suspect he would have apologized for edges etc. My main point is that a lot of this behavior is cultural in the end. Harimoto has shifted the culture. Ma Long , Lin Gaoyuan, Liu Guoliang and Bernie have shifted the culture. Dima and Mizutani have shifted the culture. Koki Niwa is no longer in vogue. Sora and Lin Yun Ju couldn't get with the program so they hired coaches to do it for them. That is where celebration in TT is at today. No going back to the days of silent fist pumping

 

[PenHoldSandro]

I almost never say Cho. I just don't, unless the match is extremely tight. However, an unforced mistake by the opponent is still their mistake, and you deserve that chole. But for nets and edges, Imo that's kinda rude lol.

My teammate had an opponent who said chole when he served the ball into the net at 12-13. Probably the most obnoxious thing I have ever seen in table tennis. He got booed by the crowd.

That's such an ass move by that opponent. Didn't even give your teammate the proper win he deserves. Deserved to get booed, I hope you booed him too 🤣

You can even mispronounce it and go "chao leee!" to better get into their heads

Absolutely. These celebrations also get into the opponent's head, so I guess you can use this unethical technique, though I would consider it fairly rude.

tt is a zero sum game. every won point comes at the expense of a lost point for the other side. so whenever things go good for you(win a point), you are understandably happy. that exact situation is for the opponent a bad thing(he lost a point) and he is understandably unhappy.

expressing yourself very overtly for a thing that makes you happy and at the same time makes your opponent unhappy can, also understandably, lead to more unhappiness for the later.

people who are more empathic are more susceptible to being hurt by a cho-ing opponent, because they never or almost never do it to their opponents because they don't want to cause more, of what they believe to be unfair, unhappiness for them.

imo, cho-ing and the like should be punished by tt rules. some people don't care about it, but for some, it really messes with their game.

also, sometimes you hear defenders of cho-ing say something like "but this is just how i express myself". an argument which is obviously flawed. for example, if one would send dickpics to the cho-ing person's daughter after they would win a point against them and say "but this is just how i express myself", the cho-ing person wouldn't take it very well probably.

This is a very good reason, but I disagree. Screaming and vocalizing in general is also stress relief, and can calm down tense games, so a won point deserves at least a little celebration (not like Harimoto lol). Even though I disagree, I would say that the reason defenders provide is not that good either, since why scream if you're just expressing yourself? You can so something else anyway. Overall, good reasoning, but I disagree.

this is obviously totally fine if you keep it at a reasonable level (not too loud or overly dramatic).

and if this gets under your opponents skin then he should take it as a chance to work on his mental game

This is absolutely true! Messing up your opponent's mental is a key way to victory, and can be done by screaming like this, though I would consider deconstructing their playing and abusing their weakness a more ethical way.

 

[songdavid98]

I’m reminded of this

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[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

In Japan, usually people celebrate by shouting "RAKKI !!!!" (Lucky) when they score a lucky point, which include the opponent missing the easy smash for example or the easy ball while you're totally out of position...

by extension, some can celebrate the other guy serving in the net... especially at deuce or game point...

nothing wrong with that !