New to PIPS! Some questions!

[Siyata]

Hey i'm using innerforce layer ALC and dignics 09c 2,1 x2. On FH i'm offensive and looping alot with spin. Serving with a lot of spin. I'm thinking of testing pips because my backhand is only playing defensive anyway. i'm good at pushes (short backspin) but i brush ball a lot. and good at blocking. But people abuse me not being able to attack on backhand and doing all shots there. So I think pips could be a good thing to try. So i've done some quick research and it seems long pips might be good.

Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 seems most recommended but with bad durability. But good for control and reverse spins at short range.
Victas Curl P1V. Used by professionals and gives more spin. maybe more far away from table?
Butterfly feint 3 which also has a lot of more spin. seems a bit more recommended close to table?

My goal would be to have something that fits my style doing pushes close to table but I also think it would be cool if i could play around with giving back more spin as i like brushing the ball a lot. Could butterfly feint be what i'm looking for or am i better off going for the safe option dorneglanz 1 that everyone is hyping? Also as or the sponge, people seem to recommend OX. Would that be optimal in my case too?

 

[Ultravisitor]

Let me state first: Long pips will not solve the problem of a bad backhand. Maybe they suit you better, but they play fundamentally different.
If you want to do this, try it on a spare blade and leave your setup as is.
There are very few LPs that can do a good push. None are as good as inverted rubber. Especially if you want to try OX rubbers, you'll have to learn a whole new set of strokes, because they produce almost no spin by themselves. I wouldn't recommend any of the LPs you mentioned to a player new to pips.
My recommendation: train your bh, maybe get a good control optimized inverted rubber for bh.
If you want to try LPs start with something cheap and easy to play: Dawei 388d-1 or Yinhe 955 but on a different blade. The weight difference alone will throw you of and will affect your timing and power on FH.

 

[Siyata]

I have tried many different inverted rubber for 1,5 year on BH (Rakza 7 / Rakza 7s / Rakza Z), Dignics 09c was by far the easiest for me. I feel i have a strong BH defensively. Pushing with a lot of brush / control. And blocking. But yeah as for offensive play I struggle. On training i can do good loops offensively and smashes, but in matches where i mostly get underspin or extreme overspin to my BH i just end up chop/push (not sure which word is correct, short backspin with alot of spin) and win by my serves / forhand and just defensive on BH. So thats why im thinking long pips could be good since i tried long time to avoid it but maybe its better to embrace my boring playstyle.


Dawei 388d-1 / Yinhe 955 okay thank you i will check those out!


EDIT: Can also add I have a friend with Dornenglanz 2 on a Stiga plus 4. That i will try out soon to get a feel for the style. But to my research dornenglanz 2 is more for attacking style compared to dornenglanz 1

 

[piligrim]

You need Grass DTecs OX

 

[Siyata]

You need Grass DTecs OX

Wanna elaborate your thoughts?

Quick google seems like it is made for close table and gives high reversal spin, sounds very nice! I dont want to just defend the ball over, id like to create more advanced spins back and work hard on that which im already good at with normal rubber. Would this rubber create more spin then compared to Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 and give opponents a harder time? at the cost of some control? Are they similar?

EDIT: More googling it seems harder to control to many but good disruption to opponent. Most seem to recommend OX. One guy said "Need atleast 1mm, makes it more controllable"

 

[piligrim]

Wanna elaborate your thoughts?


Quick google seems like it is made for close table and gives high reversal spin, sounds very nice! I dont want to just defend the ball over, id like to create more advanced spins back and work hard on that which im already good at with normal rubber. Would this rubber create more spin then compared to Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 and give opponents a harder time? at the cost of some control? Are they similar?

EDIT: More googling it seems harder to control to many but good disruption to opponent. Most seem to recommend OX. One guy said "Need atleast 1mm, makes it more controllable"

That rubber is best for close to table game. Does what all pro and amateues use. Look at Chu Long Nie for example.
I don't about Dorneglanz. Never had it.

 

[greenbeanmachine]

Wanna elaborate your thoughts?

Quick google seems like it is made for close table and gives high reversal spin, sounds very nice! I dont want to just defend the ball over, id like to create more advanced spins back and work hard on that which im already good at with normal rubber. Would this rubber create more spin then compared to Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 and give opponents a harder time? at the cost of some control? Are they similar?

EDIT: More googling it seems harder to control to many but good disruption to opponent. Most seem to recommend OX. One guy said "Need atleast 1mm, makes it more controllable"

The thing to understand about long pips is that there are two very distinct styles that you can play, and you play these styles with two very different types of rubbers.

Style 1: push-block and attack, close to the table. Uses fast low-friction pips with OX or very thin sponge to get maximum spin reversal.

Style 2: defensive chopper, far from the table. Uses slow high-friction pips with max sponge to allow maximum backspin generation.

Either style, you should get a defensive blade. I recommend one of the Gambler Oversize blades, they're great quality and quite cheap.

Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 seems most recommended but with bad durability. But good for control and reverse spins at short range.
Victas Curl P1V. Used by professionals and gives more spin. maybe more far away from table?
Butterfly feint 3 which also has a lot of more spin. seems a bit more recommended close to table?

Dorneglanz is generally used in OX, for the push-block-attack style close to the table. The balls will be very deceptive and wobbly, but you can't really chop with it.

Curl P1V is good for generating your own spin, and still has some spin reversal effects if you touch the ball gently. But this is a rubber where you want to use max sponge and stay far from the table and hit with a big swing to make very spinny chops. Near-table game is not so good, you will want to initiate the open rally as quickly as possible.

Feint Long 3 is almost entirely for chopping and generating backspin. Should be played with max sponge. It's easier to learn coming from inverted rubber, because it has quite a lot of grip and a very soft sponge. It is better for the near-table game than other chopping rubbers, but by no means is it "good" for playing close to the table. This rubber is not deceptive at all, it just generates heavy backspin on chops. It's so grippy that you need to be careful not to push backspin into the net.

TLDR don't use a blocking rubber for chopping, and don't use a chopping rubber for blocking.

Dawei 388D-1 with 0.5mm sponge is a good middle ground. You can explore the possibilities of chopping and the possibilities of the close-to-table deceptive game with it. Once you decide which style you prefer, then you can transition to one of the more specialized rubbers like P1V, Feint 3, or Dorneglanz. Yinhe Neptune 0.7mm is also a good middle ground rubber.

 

[Siyata]

The thing to understand about long pips is that there are two very distinct styles that you can play, and you play these styles with two very different types of rubbers.

Style 1: push-block and attack, close to the table. Uses low-friction pips with OX or very thin sponge to get maximum spin reversal.

Style 2: defensive chopper, far from the table. Uses high-friction pips with max sponge to allow maximum backspin generation.

Either style, you should get a defensive blade. I recommend one of the Gambler Oversize blades, they're great quality and quite cheap.


Dorneglanz is generally used in OX, for the push-block-attack style close to the table. The balls will be very deceptive and wobbly, but you can't really chop with it.

Curl P1V is good for generating your own spin, and still has some spin reversal effects if you touch the ball gently. But this is a rubber where you want to use max sponge and stay far from the table and hit with a big swing to make very spinny chops. Near-table game is not so good, you will want to initiate the open rally as quickly as possible.

Feint Long 3 is almost entirely for chopping and generating backspin. Should be played with max sponge. It's easier to learn coming from inverted rubber, because it has quite a lot of grip and a very soft sponge. It is better for the near-table game than other chopping rubbers, but by no means is it "good" for playing close to the table. This rubber is not deceptive at all, it just generates heavy backspin on chops. It's so grippy that you need to be careful not to push backspin into the net.

TLDR don't use a blocking rubber for chopping, and don't use a chopping rubber for blocking.

Dawei 388D-1 with 0.5mm sponge is a good middle ground. You can explore the possibilities of chopping and the possibilities of the close-to-table deceptive game with it. Once you decide which style you prefer, then you can transition to one of the more specialized rubbers like P1V, Feint 3, or Dorneglanz. Yinhe Neptune 0.7mm is also a good middle ground rubber.

Very good post thank you! The only experience I have is that i do a lot of short underspin strokes close table where i brush the ball a lot(Short chop?). Some kind of defensive way but feels safer with more spin and sometimes ppl just hit the ball in the net. So looking at your description this is not something you're doing with pips. Its either do these long chops far away which I think looks ridicilous or some kind of "aggressive blocking" style, which sounds way more closer to what I think i could manage and enjoy. I also saw some videos on Manika Batra performing this style, and yeah it was more blocking than "short choping".

So reading your info on each rubber it seems like Dorneglanz 1 or Grass DTecs OX could be good then. But the second option many people say is hard to learn. However i have 2 blades I could just buy one of each and try both these 2 out. If grass is too hard I can probably learn Dorneglanz 1. The only issue left would be I dont have a defensive blade which you recommended. At the moment using Inneforce layer ALC and as backup blade i have a Viscaria ST. (Manika Batra is using Viscaria also)

EDIT: missed your recommendation of Yinhe Neptune. At my shop here in sweden it says they dont sell it anymore, would you say its better than the other two i mentioned for close table?

 

[the-don]

you could try short pips first.
to learn

The thing to understand about long pips is that there are two very distinct styles that you can play, and you play these styles with two very different types of rubbers.

Style 1: push-block and attack, close to the table. Uses fast low-friction pips with OX or very thin sponge to get maximum spin reversal.

Style 2: defensive chopper, far from the table. Uses slow high-friction pips with max sponge to allow maximum backspin generation.

Either style, you should get a defensive blade. I recommend one of the Gambler Oversize blades, they're great quality and quite cheap.


Dorneglanz is generally used in OX, for the push-block-attack style close to the table. The balls will be very deceptive and wobbly, but you can't really chop with it.

Curl P1V is good for generating your own spin, and still has some spin reversal effects if you touch the ball gently. But this is a rubber where you want to use max sponge and stay far from the table and hit with a big swing to make very spinny chops. Near-table game is not so good, you will want to initiate the open rally as quickly as possible.

Feint Long 3 is almost entirely for chopping and generating backspin. Should be played with max sponge. It's easier to learn coming from inverted rubber, because it has quite a lot of grip and a very soft sponge. It is better for the near-table game than other chopping rubbers, but by no means is it "good" for playing close to the table. This rubber is not deceptive at all, it just generates heavy backspin on chops. It's so grippy that you need to be careful not to push backspin into the net.

TLDR don't use a blocking rubber for chopping, and don't use a chopping rubber for blocking.

Dawei 388D-1 with 0.5mm sponge is a good middle ground. You can explore the possibilities of chopping and the possibilities of the close-to-table deceptive game with it. Once you decide which style you prefer, then you can transition to one of the more specialized rubbers like P1V, Feint 3, or Dorneglanz. Yinhe Neptune 0.7mm is also a good middle ground rubber.

it's relative.
gustaf ericson plays far from table with ox long pimples and a rather fast stiga clipper blade.
also gambler brand doesn't seem to be popular/available outside USA.

you could start with short pimples which is like the middle of the road to the long pimples.
if you like it and adapt you could try the long.

 

[Siyata]

That rubber is best for close to table game. Does what all pro and amateues use. Look at Chu Long Nie for example.
I don't about Dorneglanz. Never had it.

One more question for Grass DTecs OX. Some people recommend 0,5mm or 1,0mm because it is easier. They say OX is very hard to learn. is this true would you recommend 0,5mm to a new pips player?

 

[piligrim]

To play close to table with blocking LP don't need defensive blade.

 

[Siyata]

To play close to table with blocking LP don't need defensive blade.

And what about the sponge, OX okay or should I go 0,5mm as im new to pips? I have tons of hour to learn but new to it

 

[piligrim]

One more question for Grass DTecs OX. Some people recommend 0,5mm or 1,0mm because it is easier. They say OX is very hard to learn. is this true would you recommend 0,5mm to a new pips player?

I personally didn't use it. It doesn't fit my style. But everybody I know using OX. It's pretty fast even in OX. I think with sponge wil, but really hard to control it

 

[greenbeanmachine]

I also saw some videos on Manika Batra performing this style, and yeah it was more blocking than "short choping".

Yes, Manika Batra plays very much the push-block-attack style close to the table. A chopping style would be more like Hanoka Hashimoto or Joo Sae Hyuk.

The only experience I have is that i do a lot of short underspin strokes where i brush the ball a lot(Short chop?)

Ah okay, this is not really something you can do well with long pips. Feint Long 3 would be your best option because it is grippy enough to generate backspin, even if there is no incoming spin. But if you want to do this "short chop", you need a rubber which is much grippier than long pips.

You could try a grippy short pips, like Victas Spinpips D3. You could also try an inverted chopping rubber like Tackfire or Tackiness Chop. Joo Sae Hyuk has used Tackiness Chop on his forehand for forehand chopping -- it's one of the best inverted rubbers for chopping. But the reason one chooses Tackiness Chop is not because it's amazing at chopping -- it's because it's ok at chopping, and you need to have at least one inverted rubber on your blade to generate spin.

The problem with these grippier pips and inverted rubbers is that it's much harder to get a consistent chop. You can chop with Tackiness Chop, but you have to be careful.

Its either do these long chops far away which I think looks ridicilous or some kind of "aggressive blocking" style, which sounds way more closer to what I think i could manage and enjoy.

It sounds like you could modify your style more easily into the aggressive blocking style. But be aware: this is the style where you have almost zero control over the spin. You have to work almost entirely with the spin that your opponent gives you. You should block topspin, attack backspin, and pray that your opponent doesn't give you no-spin balls.

So reading your info on each rubber it seems like Dorneglanz 1 or Grass DTecs OX could be good then.

Yes, these are both good for the aggressive blocking style

But the second option many people say is hard to learn

It depends. I found the second option (chopping) much easier to learn, personally. But I was a tennis player and used to chop a lot in tennis, and I play squash which is almost entirely chop strokes. Chopping objectively gives you more contact time and more stability, but the technique might be harder to learn (?)

One more question for Grass DTecs OX. Some people recommend 0,5mm or 1,0mm because it is easier. They say OX is very hard to learn. is this true would you recommend 0,5mm to a new pips player?

I find OX to be very difficult. You get almost no dwell time. You can either play very slowly or very fast, but the middle gears are hard to find. I would recommend starting with 0.5mm.

gustaf ericson plays far from table with ox pimples and a rather fast stiga clipper blade.

Of course there are exceptions, and maybe you will find that you are one of them. But at this point it's best to try to fit into one of the popular styles, and then add your own flair once you have a better idea of how you want to play.

also gambler brand doesn't seem to be popular/available outside USA.

Ah okay, in that case DHS 08x or Yinhe 980xx are also great options. Donic Defplay Senso V3 is also not bad (I use it for my hardbat with OX short pips)

To play close to table with blocking LP don't need defensive blade.

That's true, and if you are good with an offensive blade then your game will be very dangerous. My teammate has 388D-1 OX on a Viscaria and it's deadly. But I find it extremely hard to control when I play with it.

If you planing to block with it and atack you need only OX

I think 0.5mm gives a good approximation of OX blocking style, with a bit more control. Also you can chop a bit. Playing with OX produces the most dangerous shots, but I think it is also the hardest to control.

 

[piligrim]

And what about the sponge, OX okay or should I go 0,5mm as im new to pips? I have tons of hour to learn but new to it

If you planing to block with it and atack you need only OX

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

How about getting a thin sponge inverted rubber so you can maintain your closerange push and backspin capabilities but also have an easier time chopping off the table?

 

[Siyata]

Yes, Manika Batra plays very much the push-block-attack style close to the table. A chopping style would be more like Hanoka Hashimoto or Joo Sae Hyuk.


Ah okay, this is not really something you can do well with long pips. Feint Long 3 would be your best option because it is grippy enough to generate backspin, even if there is no incoming spin. But if you want to do this "short chop", you need a rubber which is much grippier than long pips.

You could try a grippy short pips, like Victas Spinpips D3. You could also try an inverted chopping rubber like Tackfire or Tackiness Chop. Joo Sae Hyuk has used Tackiness Chop on his forehand for forehand chopping -- it's one of the best inverted rubbers for chopping. But the reason one chooses Tackiness Chop is not because it's amazing at chopping -- it's because it's ok at chopping, and you need to have at least one inverted rubber on your blade to generate spin.

The problem with these grippier pips and inverted rubbers is that it's much harder to get a consistent chop. You can chop with Tackiness Chop, but you have to be careful.


It sounds like you could modify your style more easily into the aggressive blocking style. But be aware: this is the style where you have almost zero control over the spin. You have to work almost entirely with the spin that your opponent gives you. You should block topspin, attack backspin, and pray that your opponent doesn't give you no-spin balls.


Yes, these are both good for the aggressive blocking style


It depends. I found the second option (chopping) much easier to learn, personally. But I was a tennis player and used to chop a lot in tennis, and I play squash which is almost entirely chop strokes. Chopping objectively gives you more contact time and more stability, but the technique might be harder to learn (?)


I find OX to be very difficult. You get almost no dwell time. You can either play very slowly or very fast, but the middle gears are hard to find. I would recommend starting with 0.5mm.


Of course there are exceptions, and maybe you will find that you are one of them. But at this point it's best to try to fit into one of the popular styles, and then add your own flair once you have a better idea of how you want to play.


Ah okay, in that case DHS 08x or Yinhe 980xx are also great options. Donic Defplay Senso V3 is also not bad (I use it for my hardbat with OX short pips)


That's true, and if you are good with an offensive blade then your game will be very dangerous. My teammate has 388D-1 OX on a Viscaria and it's deadly. But I find it extremely hard to control when I play with it.


I think 0.5mm gives a good approximation of OX blocking style, with a bit more control. Also you can chop a bit. Playing with OX produces the most dangerous shots, but I think it is also the hardest to control.

If you planing to block with it and atack you need only OX

Thanks for replies, yes I saw Manika Batra did what you explained, block on topspin and on backspin swap to FH and attack. I will test a friends SpinLord Dornenglanz 2 in few days on Stiga plus 4. Just to see how it feels.

Do you think Dornenglanz 1 or 2 is best here? Will probably order one of them in OX since its only available in OX here.

About grass will ask around and have a think about OX or 0,5 and order one of those too, Thanks!

 

[Siyata]

How about getting a thin sponge inverted rubber so you can maintain your closerange push and backspin capabilities but also have an easier time chopping off the table?

I dont want to chop on long distance. I just want to be more dangerous than what i'm doing right now: short chop / blocking on my backhand since my offensive BH is not good enough but I am very comfortable in those 2 strokes. Cause atm people just shoot on my backhand and im not really putting up much fight there. So pips is the right way I think unless i wanna spend more years improving my backhand loops. With pips i will return harder shots for them.

 

[the-don]

you

Wanna elaborate your thoughts?

Quick google seems like it is made for close table and gives high reversal spin, sounds very nice! I dont want to just defend the ball over, id like to create more advanced spins back and work hard on that which im already good at with normal rubber. Would this rubber create more spin then compared to Spinlord Dorneglanz 1 and give opponents a harder time? at the cost of some control? Are they similar?

EDIT: More googling it seems harder to control to many but good disruption to opponent. Most seem to recommend OX. One guy said "Need atleast 1mm, makes it more controllable"

there's no easier or more difficult.
you will have to learn to play again, new strokes, new placement, new angles.
if you want something you can use your current base then short pimples is what you want.

but as far as feeling goes ox is the farthest from inverted.
the more sponge the more it will "feel" similar to inverted, basically because both have a sponge.

 

[Siyata]

you


there's no easier or more difficult.
you will have to learn to play again, new strokes, new placement, new angles.
if you want something you can use your current base then short pimples is what you want.

i understand, i dont seek an easy new option, short pimples is more for offensive play I think. as ive explained im looking more for defensive blocking and long pips seems better for that, will practise hard and learn it