Mizutani ZLC underrated Fantastic blade

[jonyer80]

I tested MJ-ZLC yesterday with my trusty rubbers. G1 FH & C1 BH. I did like it way better than D09C. Softer feeling for being an outer fiber and moderate speed nearly same speed as my Rosewood V but softer feeling. I would rate it as low off range or high end OFF, despite measuring 1480 Hz on the frequency test

Drawbacks:

1-Unpleasant rough edges on the wings. Need to sand it out in order to prevent blisters.

2- quite head heavier than IF series.

 

[mvibritannia]

I think it really helped your experience with Zyre 03 that you have the 2.5mm version coupled with a lighter sample of Mizutani ZLC.
Let's say you have 2.7mm Zyre 03 and ~90g Mizutani ZLC, that thing would definitely be harder to control.
Either way, glad that the setup works for you

Yes that's a great point! The weight and sponge thickness play a important role in a set up.

I've played with this racket again tonight.
Quick update on my previous experience:

Dignics 80 on the backhand paired with this blade is a fantastic rubber.
It's easy to play, you get tons of control with very low spin sensibility.

I never hit really hard with my backhand personally so I don't think I'm lacking power.
This is probably one of the best BH rubbers for FH dominant players.

My perspective on Zyre03 has evolved a bit, let me explain:

I'm more comfortable with serves than the first time using it. I think the grip is really good, so when you get used to the sponge hardness, you won't have much trouble serving with it.

I feel like there is a impact threshold, under it you have a lot of control with decent ball quality without D09C efforts required.

Above it, you are sacrificing control for power and speed.

Obviously it's not something fixed it's gradual. But I understand why the way the ball shouts out sometimes can be surprising.

T05 on the FH is clearly easier to play but has less potential.

I really like the short game and pushes, it's faster than 09C but it's easier to be aggressive with receives.
Overall I think this is a great rubber very unique, but it probably needs good techniques and a lot of time, to use it properly.

As I mentioned previously, the real test will be in official competition, against lower ranking players and higher ranking players.

So far I would say that:

JMZLC / FH: T05/D80 / BH: D80 is a set up I would 100% trust and be confident with.
JMZLC / FH : Z03 / BH: D80 is a set up where I can reach my highest level when everything line up (form, conditions...).

Hope this will help anyone considering this blade

 

[mvibritannia]

I tested MJ-ZLC yesterday with my trusty rubbers. G1 FH & C1 BH. I did like it way better than D09C. Softer feeling for being an outer fiber and moderate speed nearly same speed as my Rosewood V but softer feeling. I would rate it as low off range or high end OFF, despite measuring 1480 Hz on the frequency test

Drawbacks:

1-Unpleasant rough edges on the wings. Need to sand it out in order to prevent blisters.

2- quite head heavier than IF series.

Thanks for your input.

I have the same feeling about D09C, I don't think this combination is optimal. Maybe someone has a different perspective on it.

This blade (without being slow at all) is not as fast as what you could think of watching the butterfly website.

Regarding the drawbacks:

1. Is common to every blade I've ever used.

2. Quite the opposite experience for me. The paddle is 157x150, which unless I'm mistaken, is the smallest for Butterly.
Maybe IF 150X157 are less head heavy, but in the great scheme of blades, the JMZLC is clearly more on the handle heavy side than the head heavy side (Vs Harimoto ALC, Ovtcharov ALC, Ma long 5...)

 

[jonyer80]

I think it really helped your experience with Zyre 03 that you have the 2.5mm version coupled with a lighter sample of Mizutani ZLC.
Let's say you have 2.7mm Zyre 03 and ~90g Mizutani ZLC, that thing would definitely be harder to control.
Either way, glad that the setup works for you

Innerforce series (except HT and Ovtcharov) have same measures but for some reason they aren't as heavier and JMZLC. I own another IF ALC in mint condition but the handle is nowhere as rough as this. Maybe they didn't sanded it down enough... How knows

 

[Angerer]

Innerforce series (except HT and Ovtcharov) have same measures but for some reason they aren't as heavier and JMZLC. I own another IF ALC in mint condition but the handle is nowhere as rough as this. Maybe they didn't sanded it down enough... How knows

Indeed. From my experience, all Butterfly blades are well balanced except Harimoto and Ovtcharov, which are slighly head-heavy (rightfully so, they have larger heads).
Mizutani is somewhere in the middle just like Timo Boll ALC, meanwhile the balance of FZD/Viscaria/JJK feel perfectly at the center or in the handle.

 

[BohemG]

I want to buy the MZLC. I hit flat smashes, so this blade gave me the feeling that I can hit flat smashes, since outer-c, bit also have control.
Can someone suggest forehand rubber for it, which is also good for flat hits ?

 

[Magic_M]

I have also bought 2 Mizutani ZLC FL. I agree to the very nice feeling (especially with T05 and D80), but unfortunately this blade is too fast for me. Therefore I will continue playing with my Stiga Surge.

 

[exotick]

Hey @mvibritannia . How is the setup going for you? Could you elaborate on the throw angle of the mizutani against viscaria salc (or fzd salc) if you have played them? The Super Viscaria is a bit too flat/direct and i'm looking for something in between it and normal alc. Also , interesting you are saying boll alc is a faster blade, lab gear lab report says mizutani's rebound speed is as much as the super alc. Looking for a blade similar to Super Alc speed wise, but a bit more control/dwell to use Zyre on it, and i think i might be getting myself mizutani

 

[mvibritannia]

Hi everyone,

Quick update on my journey with the Mizutani ZLC.

My last message was a review of the Zyre 03 on the MZLC.

After that, I tried the Zyre 03 boosted with one layer of Haifu Sea moon, using it on the FH.
The rubber went from 51° to 46° degrees ESN (tested myself with a calibrated durometer). I felt like it improved the feeling a lot. Easier to activate the sponge on basically every shot. I was getting really high level of spin.

Overall I enjoyed Zyre 03 way more with one layer of booster.

My main problem with Zyre 03 is that past a certain threeshold of swing speed I was loosing too much control.
I think it's a fantastic rubber but at my level I don't need that amount of speed, I would rather have something a bit slower with more control.

I then tried a Tenergy 19 on the FH with MZLC, won't get much in details here but I did not like it at all.

It was pretty weird, pretty slow and unreactive most of the time, and then for some reason popping off with a unpredictable really high arc.

Maybe it's just me or the rubber really doesn't match the blade at all.

I went back to this set up: FH: T05, BH: D80 on the MZLC.

I really enjoy it: Easy to play, Lot of control but still dynamic, Very predictable. Exactly what I was looking for.
Now my T05 is getting pretty old, and before buying a new one, I have the opportunity to test a T80, which was the set up of Mizutani himself in the past.

I will try that this week and probably finalise my set up after this test.

I can give more details on all these rubbers in DM if some people are interested

 

[mvibritannia]

Hey @mvibritannia . How is the setup going for you? Could you elaborate on the throw angle of the mizutani against viscaria salc (or fzd salc) if you have played them? The Super Viscaria is a bit too flat/direct and i'm looking for something in between it and normal alc. Also , interesting you are saying boll alc is a faster blade, lab gear lab report says mizutani's rebound speed is as much as the super alc. Looking for a blade similar to Super Alc speed wise, but a bit more control/dwell to use Zyre on it, and i think i might be getting myself mizutani

I have never played with a viscaria salc unfortunately.

The MZLC has a certain arc, not flat but not too much neither for me.
The throw angle is medium I think and will depend on the rubbers you use.

I don't think rebound speed gives any information to be honest.
What matters is how the blade reacts depending on the swing speed and the power you hit the ball with.

At high swing speed, Boll ALC is much faster than MZLC. The way the ALC kicks in is really different.
At slow speed it's possible that the speed is comparable I think.

The Boll ALC and the MZLC have totally different feelings, outerply is different, carbon is different.

I actually glued my Zyre 03 on my Harimoto SALC, which I think is slower than the Viscaria SALC.
And it was already faster than with the MZLC. SALC is much more powerful than ZLC.

I'm not sure what you are looking for exists unfortunately.
If you want more control and dwell time you will need to sacrifice some speed.

 

[arashfarshadi]

i think benyamin faraji use Mj szlc with zyre 03

 

[TischTenniser]

Hi @mvibritannia , thank you for sharing your experience with MZLC. I was wondering how does the T05/D80 combo along with MZLC help to play against pimpled rubbers. Did you get a chance to play against pimpled players , like long pimples, medium? How easy is it lift the underspin balls, even if you are out of position?

 

[mvibritannia]

Hi,

To give some updates.

I've been playing with the mizutani ZLC since 9 months now.

Tried almost all butterfly rubbers on it, I've settled for 2 D05 in 1,9mm.

The paddle is very light (85g blade, 170g in total)

My favorites rubbers on it are D05, D80 and T05.

T05 is the easiest one to use, serves, opening are a bliss. Counter top is a bit harder.

D05 and D80 are similar in terms of feeling, but I found D80 a bit too fast. I would consider it only if you play often far from the table. It pops really hard so for short game and blocks it can be challenging.

D05 is the most balanced to me. Serves and receives are technical, you need a good touch to be precise.

Openings, blocks and counter loops are deadly. The blade really provides the power for you.
You can play with short strokes and get really high speed. The top speed is not as fast as ALC but 90% of the time you don't need it.

To give an idea let's say you play two shots, A at 50% stroke speed and B at 90% stroke speed.
A. With ZLC you get 70% speed with ALC 50% speed.
B. With ZLC you get 80% speed, with ALC 90% speed.

Lifting up under spin balls is much easier with this blade than ALC blades because the blade does a part of the job for you. However if you miss read a push that has no spin you can risk to drop it out.

The distinctive part of this blade is really the feeling that is quite different from ALC, hard to explain.
Don't hesitate if you have any questions.

 

[Scarfed Garchomp]

Hi @mvibritannia , thank you for sharing your experience with MZLC. I was wondering how does the T05/D80 combo along with MZLC help to play against pimpled rubbers. Did you get a chance to play against pimpled players , like long pimples, medium? How easy is it lift the underspin balls, even if you are out of position?

MJZLC is pretty bouncy, and it responds well to low-medium power attacking and compact/snappy strokes. But if you like using a lot of force when attacking or rely on the blade to catch the ball when looping, MJZLC might feel less comfortable. I like backhand attack with MJZLC because it is a responsive and snappy blade that makes hitting fast backhands with a compact stroke very easy, but I don't especially enjoy hitting strong forehand with it, feels like the support and arc protection is not quite there when I put my weight into it. With outer ALC like FZDALC the feeling and vibration is more muted/dampened, but it is more absorbing on soft contact and the response scales better to progressively harder impact. I feel like with ALC I have to play more active and engaged, but it also affords me better control through a more predictable response. Sometimes with MJZLC when I really want to put the ball away, if I did not precisely hit through the ball, it feels like the ball trajectory drops off too much relative to the blade angle vs ALC, with FZDALC it feels like I can mash the ball into the blade and carry it over the net more effectively before it shoots away.

The distinctive part of this blade is really the feeling that is quite different from ALC, hard to explain.

Coming from ALC and even allwood the MJZLC does have quite a strange feeling, the vibration is present much more than with ALC, but it is almost buzzy or noisy- even with 5 ply allwood the vibration is more often 'harmonious' or 'warm' but with MJZLC it is nearly metallic though not on the same level as with T5000. It is certainly an acquired taste, but not uncomfortable if one spends time to get used to it.

 

[Makelele]

mvibritannia, I liked your reviews with the MJZLC a lot. Really articulate.
Do you have any experience comparing the MJZLC and the MJSuperZLC? Is there any substantial difference?
And of course, if anyone, besides mvibritannia, may add their experience between both blades, that would be helpful.

 

[kindof99]

Hi everyone,

I've been gifted a Mizutani ZLC at christmas.

In comparison to more popular blades (Viscaria, Boll ALC, Harimoto...), the amount of reviews is very limited.
It's hard to have an idea of how this blade actually plays before you try it.

As I have not found a lot of information on this blade on the forum, I thought it would be interesting to make a review of it.
As well as discussing rubbers possible combinations.

Profile: French player with equivalent ranking of around 2200 USATT.
Previous Material: Harimoto SALC, FH: Dignics 09C, BH: Dignics 05.

For this test I paired it with 2 Tenergy 05 (rubbers I know very well and played for years).

First Impressions:

The blade is way softer than I expected (limba). Yet you have a really crisp feeling due to the ZLC fiber providing a lot of feedback.
I played with an Harimoto ALC in the past which was also soft but you felt the vibration way less.

The blade is very stiff. So it's never slow and never really fast.
When you don't engage much it's not that slow (maybe Tenergy plays a role here), you still get a slight catapult effect.
When you hit hard, the speed is not fast. You still get some speed but far from Boll ALC or HSALC.

This provides a level of control I've never played with before. The ball literally goes at the exact spot you aimed for, just not that fast.
You are never surprised by the angle or the arc.

This was very surprising to me as I really though this blade would be hard and fast. it's quite the opposite.

The paddle is 150*157, with weight handle heavy which was a game changer for me coming from a 152*158 HSALC.
The level of manoeuvrability is higher and transition from FH to BH way easier.

Now let's talk about the golden point of this blade: mid distance
I've never had this amount of fun playing table tennis in a long time. There is something about this blade at mid distance that is magical.
You won't overpower your opponent, but unless you don't touch the ball you won't miss the table, it's just automatic.

Of course no blade is perfect, let's talk now about it's limitations.
The Mizutani ZLC is made to brush the ball, it really falls short hitting flat, passive blocking is good but it's really not made to hit flat with force.
The level of spin you can generate is relatively high (serves, topspin..) but lower than over blades (Harimoto ALC, ML5...).

Basically you won't get the feeling of overpowering your opponent, but in exchange you will make less mistakes, less frustration from missing shots.
The rallies will be longer and you will outflank your opponent with placement more than speed.

Rubbers discussion: While I think it paired really well with Tenergy 05. I believe two things could be improved with different rubbers.
It's lacking a bit of grip --> Considering Dignics 09C and Zyre 03 on the forehand.
It's a bit to spin sensitive --> Considering Dignics 80 on the backhand.

I would be really happy to answer any questions people considering this blade may have.
For those playing with it, what rubbers are you using and why?

Kind Regards

This blade was made about 15 years ago. How did you come to the conclusion that there was no reviews about it?

 

[kindof99]

Do you guys think that Tibhar Hybrid MK would be a good rubber for MJ ZLC ?

I used it on the forehand and it was quite good. But the rubber oxides quite quickly if removed from the blade.

 

[kindof99]

Hi everyone,

Quick update on my journey with the Mizutani ZLC.

My last message was a review of the Zyre 03 on the MZLC.

After that, I tried the Zyre 03 boosted with one layer of Haifu Sea moon, using it on the FH.
The rubber went from 51° to 46° degrees ESN (tested myself with a calibrated durometer). I felt like it improved the feeling a lot. Easier to activate the sponge on basically every shot. I was getting really high level of spin.

Overall I enjoyed Zyre 03 way more with one layer of booster.

My main problem with Zyre 03 is that past a certain threeshold of swing speed I was loosing too much control.
I think it's a fantastic rubber but at my level I don't need that amount of speed, I would rather have something a bit slower with more control.

I then tried a Tenergy 19 on the FH with MZLC, won't get much in details here but I did not like it at all.

It was pretty weird, pretty slow and unreactive most of the time, and then for some reason popping off with a unpredictable really high arc.

Maybe it's just me or the rubber really doesn't match the blade at all.

I went back to this set up: FH: T05, BH: D80 on the MZLC.

I really enjoy it: Easy to play, Lot of control but still dynamic, Very predictable. Exactly what I was looking for.
Now my T05 is getting pretty old, and before buying a new one, I have the opportunity to test a T80, which was the set up of Mizutani himself in the past.

I will try that this week and probably finalise my set up after this test.

I can give more details on all these rubbers in DM if some people are interested

T19 is weird to me as well.

 

[mvibritannia]

This blade was made about 15 years ago. How did you come to the conclusion that there was no reviews about it?

Hi, I did not say "that there was no reviews about it", I said the number of reviews was very limited in comparison to other popular blades

 

[mvibritannia]

mvibritannia, I liked your reviews with the MJZLC a lot. Really articulate.
Do you have any experience comparing the MJZLC and the MJSuperZLC? Is there any substantial difference?
And of course, if anyone, besides mvibritannia, may add their experience between both blades, that would be helpful.

Thank you, unfortunately I have not tested the MJ Super ZLC, but it's on my wishlist with the LYJ Super ZLC