How to know if I prefer a short or long dwell time?

[Tyce]

When you're talking about wood being outdated, this doesn't apply at all until you reach higher levels. And even then it's playstyle dependent.
Look at Gauzy (he eventually switched, but before that he was already very high level), look at Gionis.
With allwood it's harder to create point finishing speed, to keep the pressure on, but you can use it all the way to national level in any European country.

 

[passifid]

When you're talking about wood being outdated, this doesn't apply at all until you reach higher levels. And even then it's playstyle dependent.
Look at Gauzy (he eventually switched, but before that he was already very high level), look at Gionis.
With allwood it's harder to create point finishing speed, to keep the pressure on, but you can use it all the way to national level in any European country.

You tell that to all the 60 year olds in my leauge who used all wood in their 40s who now want more pop to finish points now their feet and arms dont move as well as before.

I mean Rich Dewitt is a better player than any of us in his prime and used a 5ply allwood and a 20 year old sriver but I dont think we should all use that. There is a baseline equipment for each style (gauzy and gonis are not a good example of the "modern" style at all by the way) and then you have to adjust for your own weaknesses.

 

[Tyce]

You tell that to all the 60 year olds in my leauge who used all wood in their 40s who now want more pop to finish points now their feet and arms dont move as well as before.

I'm in my 40s and don't move like I used to. I play against 60/70yos with old and new gear, and those who did attempt a switch are, without exeption, making tons of unforced errors as a result.

Carbonated blades simply do not feel the same as all-wood blades.
- the feedback gets spread by the carbon layer, it will not tell you clearly where on the bat you've hit the ball.
- the muted response on higher power shots make it harder to understand how hard you've hit the ball exactly.
- inner carbon blades have, even the fleece carbon ones, a gear switching point.
I have tried making a switch, but the longer I'm working on it the worse it feels. I mean the evidence is in the dozens of posts I've made over the past two years: I've been struggling hard to adapt to anything I've tried to replace the old thin 5ply.
Heck, I've been struggling switching to a thicker 5ply but at least it was clear to feel where the problems are.

My club has a decent selection of ~10 national level veteran players, but not even half of them actually use something with carbon in it and those who do, the main choice is fleece carbon (Waldner Senso Carbon, Ma Lin (Myth) Carbon).
My old club, the top team is borderline national levels, all of them wood players.

I mean Rich Dewitt is a better player than any of us in his prime and used a 5ply allwood and a 20 year old sriver but I dont think we should all use that. There is a baseline equipment for each style (gauzy and gonis are not a good example of the "modern" style at all by the way) and then you have to adjust for your own weaknesses.

My point is the whole mention of "modern game" is useless to this audience. "Modern game" and "outdated" are only useful to players with enough talent, age, time, discipline and training resources to make it all the way up into international levels. And those who check these boxes, they don't come here for gear advice. They have trusted coaches, people who know their game in-depth.
So saying stuff is "outdated" or not for the "modern game" is aimed at who, exactly? It's not good advice to any amateur to base their choice of equipment on the meta of top athletes.
Not unless they want to put the same effort in as those top players, playing 6-7 days a week, training hard, often and effective, using trusted, experienced guidance *and not switching equipment multiple times per year*.

 

[Dronnken]

Actual contact time in table tennis is virtually fixed at just a few milliseconds, meaning what players perceive as "dwell time" is really just residual vibration. Spin doesn't increase because the ball stays on the paddle longer, but because of a larger contact area. When the rubber, sponge, and blade deform on impact, they wrap around the ball, maximizing surface contact to efficiently transfer energy into heavy rotation.

 

[Tyce]

Actual contact time in table tennis is virtually fixed at just a few milliseconds, meaning what players perceive as "dwell time" is really just residual vibration.

I've seen this stated as a fact repeatedly, but have yet to see any evidence to support it.

Meanwhile players left right and center notice a repeatable difference. The fact that contact time is very, very short doesn't mean it's impossible to notice the difference between 0.1ms and 0.2ms. Not that I think you can consciously time this, but if people can notice input lag when gaming in the millisecond range then surely people can notice a difference in contact time, too.

Spin doesn't increase because the ball stays on the paddle longer, but because of a larger contact area. When the rubber, sponge, and blade deform on impact, they wrap around the ball, maximizing surface contact to efficiently transfer energy into heavy rotation.

When the ball stays on the paddle longer, tangential contact can get stretched further, increasing spin. In the case of tacky rubber, the tack can grab the ball for a longer rolling contact. Both will increase the potential of spin.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Switch to faster equipment when you’re ready

 

[impluse101]

Pro 05 will definitely have better dwell than Pro 01 even into medium power territory. I found it hard to control on high power compared to Pro 01 though, the power capacity is big thanks to the thick core. Mid distance loop to loop was very pleasant. My main reason for letting go of the Pro 05 was the sensation on hard flat contact. To me it felt like a teeth-rattling vibration and all in all a nasty experience.

Personally, I've been through Pro 01 and 05, came to Innerforce Layer ALC, but I'm moving back to all-wood simply because it's more predictable (than inner, no sudden gear shifts) and easier to control (than Koto outer) and generally gives more detailed/precise feedback. I'm also moving to rubbers that I can engage fully at will.

out of curiosity...

what allwood blade are you going back to for that feeling?

 

[Tyce]

out of curiosity...

what allwood blade are you going back to for that feeling?

I've been testing Korbel vs Fextra.
Korbel is slightly easier to spin with than Fextra, but harder to make quick transitions due to the balance and the grip isn't ideal either.
I think Fextra is a little bit too slow for easy power, which makes me prone to overhitting.

 

[jonol]

You tell that to all the 60 year olds in my leauge who used all wood in their 40s who now want more pop to finish points now their feet and arms dont move as well as before.

I mean Rich Dewitt is a better player than any of us in his prime and used a 5ply allwood and a 20 year old sriver but I dont think we should all use that. There is a baseline equipment for each style (gauzy and gonis are not a good example of the "modern" style at all by the way) and then you have to adjust for your own weaknesses.

Wanting easier access to power because of age is a very different thing to all wood being outdated because of the "modern game".

Unless you are vying for spots in a professional league, there is no value in thinking rigidly about the, "modern game". There is only your game - the skills you currently have and the ones you want to develop towards.

Physical limitations that occur as a result of aging, injury or disability are completely valid reasons to pick equipment that gives more speed for less effort, but they have nothing to do with wood being outdated.

 

[merlin el mago]

• How to know if I prefer a short or long dwell time?
• How to know if I should change my outer carbon(Yinhe PRO-01) for an inner carbon(Yinhe PRO-05) or even all-wood(Nittaku Violin) blade based on the dwell time(I have all these 3 rackets)?

Easy answer, short time for hitters & long dwell time for loopers.

Yinhe PRO-01 (the less dwell time) for aggressive hitters or power topspin players game based more in speed than spin. The best to block.
Yinhe PRO-05 (a little bit more dwell time because fiber only activates with strong impacts) for loopers more based in placement & spin than full power. Still can block but not the same performance like the outer.
Nittaku Violin (the more dwell time) excellent to control game, serves due to the flex with a lot of spin (top or back). The worst to block.

 

[lodro]

Actual contact time in table tennis is virtually fixed at just a few milliseconds, meaning what players perceive as "dwell time" is really just residual vibration. Spin doesn't increase because the ball stays on the paddle longer, but because of a larger contact area. When the rubber, sponge, and blade deform on impact, they wrap around the ball, maximizing surface contact to efficiently transfer energy into heavy rotation.

Ever heard of "BRUSHING " ?????