FH issue: i dun wanna smash no moar, i wanna spin moar. help!

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Tonight is my first night using Yasaka Rakza7 as fh rubber to rebuild my fh. Here are my empirical observations. ( i played 18 sets with two different players tonight using R7 on fh side.Blade is BTY SK7 which is a seven ply all-wood construction )
1. it is bouncy / catapulty / trampolinish no doubt about it. But for context, it is not as bouncy as Tenergy 05, the gold standard for bouncy rubber.
2. R7 trampoline is not so much if compared to Donic Acuda S1 ( my current rubber for the past six months or so )
3. R7 ball flight path is higher and more rainbow like ( more curvy parabolic )
4. I find it has a safer net clearing ball flight path.
5. R7 make me feel that my fh drive is assisted.
6. Grip is good and less effort needed, that is, the rubber grips well.
7. Due to the greater trampoline effect, the ball leave the rubber very fast and expect the ball to come back fast. Hence, I would suggest to stand a little bit mid distance to allow the user space and time to counter-loop or drive.
——- fin ——-
Same here. Using it for a month now. I play close to the table block and smash but want to use more loops so it's a good balanced counter hitting rubber for me that can also be used for more of an arc based attack.
Relatively easy to get used to.
 
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This post serves to highlight that it seems I have a certain style of fh loop. If I let the ball drops a bit more and then loop upwards, my chance of ball landing is higher versus if I were to drive forward against high ball with backspin as shown.
( NB: I am responding to a poster here asking me to show failed fh for diagnosis purpose. )

So, what must I do now?

those let it drop a bit and then loop upwards ( my natural style of fh loop ) is fine and dandy for regular folks but it seems that it can be blocked back easily and even countered loop by certain players. Hence I am asking, what more can I do to make it less easily countered. Tq.
 
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Every single tip that would keep your forehand technique would be a bandaid on an amputated leg. Many people (me including) are guilty at some time to use too much upper arm/shoulder on a loop, but you basically only use your shoulder and upper arm. Sure you get the ball over in certain situations, but that will get you exactly as far as you are right now. It's basically like a railway barrier, totally upright and only the arm lifting.
The first example of a forehand drive was simply either the wrong stroke in that situation or you would have needed to move at least 30cm into the ball.

Let's talk about the first example first. You serve basically no spin with an amateur like "trying to do backspin/sidespin" motion. On the first video we don't see what the opponent does, lets assume he half-assed his chop like in the other videos then there can not be much of backspin in the ball really. If you dont give him "good amount" of backspin, he will not be able to magically create huge backspin out of a nearly empty ball. He imparted a little backspin which made the ball have a tiny touch different arc and halt a little after the bounce which made you basically 20cm too far away to do the exact stroke you did. If you was closer and did the same stroke you could have hit through that "nuance" of backspin that the ball has had.

in my opinion the smartest way would be to learn a topspin motion that incorporates more of your body rotation and perhaps deliberately does not use shoulder and upper arm at all. It's ok if both move as part of the swing through, but the acceleration should come from the body and lower arm snapping. This would mean hitting the ball way below net level. The big caveat is that this will not be possible for you to learn if you play BS like Zyre or other pro material.

Now it is up to you if you want to take the time and change your game and improve beyond your level (including being weaker/less successful for a while) or if you want to stick what you do right now to beat a few low level uncles that never saw a real loop outside of tiktok.
 
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Played in a local club league yesterday
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What Fatigue Taught Me About Blade and Rubber Speed
I had an interesting experience in a recent inter-club friendly that made me rethink something I had always accepted as conventional wisdom.

The conventional advice is familiar: if you want to develop proper technique, use slower equipment. Learn with something like Sriver or Mark V, generate your own power, and only move to faster blades and modern tensor rubbers once your technique is established.

There is certainly logic behind that approach.

But I recently experienced something that made me question the idea that slower is necessarily better for learning or developing one's game.

The experiment happened by accident​

I had only about four hours of sleep before the competition. I had also overplayed the day before because I wanted to warm up properly.

For my first three matches, I used my 5-ply all wood Butterfly Falcima with Andro Rasanter R48 Energy Cell on the FH and Donic Acuda S1 on the BH.

Falcimas been my regular setup for months. The Falcima is relatively flexible and gives me good feedback and control. The R48 can produce a very nice, spinny FH when I put enough energy into the stroke.

But on this particular day, I was tired.

And I noticed something I don't normally notice.

The Falcima setup felt underpowered.

It wasn't that the blade had suddenly become "bad." Rather, I wasn't able to provide the same physical input that I normally would. My legs, body rotation and swing speed were simply not there.

The setup seemed to be asking me:

"Give me more energy."
And I didn't have much more to give.

Then I changed setups​

For the final men's doubles, I switched to a Butterfly SK7, a stiffer 7-ply all-wood blade, with Yasaka Rakza 7 on the FH and Dignics 05 on the BH.

Something immediately felt different.

Despite being equally fatigued, I could still generate a reasonably strong ball.

The SK7 felt more solid and transferred my reduced input into the ball more effectively. Rakza 7 also gave me noticeably more assistance in generating output.

It felt as though the equipment was contributing more of the missing energy.

And I won that final men's doubles 3-0.

Now, obviously, this wasn't a controlled scientific experiment. The opponents were different, the match situation was different, and I changed both blade and rubbers.

So I am not claiming:

"SK7 is objectively better than Falcima."
That's not what I learned.

What I learned was more specific:

When my own physical input was significantly reduced by fatigue, the stiffer and more reactive setup allowed me to maintain usable power much more easily.
And that was something I could actually feel on the table.

The FH was particularly interesting​

My FH opening loop isn't a fast paced power loop.

My preferred opening is relatively slow, with a high, rainbow-like arc and heavy topspin.

The interesting characteristic is what happens after the bounce.

The ball kicks upward quite sharply toward the opponent.

Against club-level players, this can be surprisingly troublesome. The incoming ball doesn't necessarily look frightening because it isn't particularly fast. But after the bounce, the combination of spin and trajectory makes the ball difficult to block cleanly.

A weak block can pop up.

A normal-looking block can kick off the table.

So the purpose of my FH isn't always to win the point immediately.

It's often to make the opponent's next ball uncomfortable enough for me or my doubles partner to finish.

The SK7/Rakza 7 setup allowed me to continue producing this kind of ball even when I was physically tired.

That was the part that really caught my attention.

It also made me rethink the role of tensor rubber​

I've always understood why players recommend slower, less reactive rubbers for learning.

They force the player to generate more of the energy.

But I think there is another side to the equation.

A modern tensor rubber isn't necessarily replacing technique.

For an experienced player who already has the stroke mechanics, it can assist the player's existing technique.

The relationship is something like:

Player input × equipment response = ball output

When the player is fresh, the difference between setups can be relatively subtle because the player can supply plenty of energy.

When the player is exhausted, however, the equipment's characteristics become much more obvious.

My experience was almost like removing a curtain.

With reduced physical input, I could suddenly feel how much the different setups were contributing to the final ball.

So is the old Sriver/Mark V philosophy wrong?​

I don't think so.

For a beginner, slower equipment may still be an excellent way to develop basic stroke mechanics, touch, timing and racket control.

But I now think the broader statement:

"Slower equipment is inherently better for learning."
is too simplistic.

The appropriate equipment depends on who is using it, what level they are at, what stroke they already possess, and what physical condition they are in.

A skilled player doesn't necessarily benefit from handicapping himself indefinitely.

Modern tensor rubber and a more reactive blade can provide legitimate assistance without automatically destroying technique.

In fact, for an experienced player, that assistance may allow him to express his technique more consistently, particularly when physical input is compromised.

My personal takeaway​

The biggest lesson wasn't that one setup is faster than another.

It was this:

Equipment and player have to be considered as one system.
A setup that is wonderful when I'm fresh may become demanding when I'm exhausted.

A more reactive setup may feel excessive when I'm fresh but become extremely useful when my physical input drops.

And perhaps that is why different players can have completely different opinions about the same rubber or blade.

They're not necessarily experiencing the same equipment.

They're experiencing the interaction between their own stroke and that equipment.

For me, this accidental experiment reinforced something I find increasingly interesting about table tennis:

The "right" equipment isn't necessarily the slowest equipment you can control. It may be the equipment that best matches the way you actually generate and use energy.

That was my little real-world experiment.

Four hours of sleep, tired legs, several matches, two different blade/rubber systems, and one rather unexpected conclusion.

Sometimes the table tennis laboratory doesn't need a laboratory.

It just needs a tired old uncle, a racket bag, and a competition. 😄

I recently had an interesting real-world experience that made me rethink the old advice that slower equipment is always better for developing technique.

I went into an inter-club friendly severely fatigued, having slept only about 4 hours and having overplayed the day before.

For my first three matches, I used:

Butterfly Falcima + Rasanter R48 FH + Acuda S1 BH

Falcima has been my regular blade for some months now. But when I was tired, I simply couldn't generate my usual swing speed and body power. The Falcima setup suddenly felt underpowered and sluggish. It seemed to require me to provide most of the energy myself.

For the final men's doubles, I switched to:

Butterfly SK7 + Yasaka Rakza 7 FH + Dignics 05 BH

Despite being equally fatigued, I immediately felt that I could generate usable power much more easily. The stiffer 7-ply SK7 and more reactive rubber seemed to assist my reduced physical input.

I won that final doubles 3-0.

Obviously, this wasn't a controlled scientific experiment. Different opponents, different rubbers, different match conditions, etc.

But the personal observation was very clear:

When my own physical input dropped because of fatigue, the more reactive setup allowed me to maintain my normal attacking game much more easily.
This also made me rethink the "learn with Sriver/Mark V, then graduate to tensors" philosophy.

I don't think that philosophy is wrong, especially for beginners. But I now think "slower = better for learning" is too simplistic.

For a no longer noob player who already has established stroke mechanics, a modern tensor rubber and a more reactive blade can provide useful assistance rather than simply replacing technique.

My takeaway:

The right equipment isn't necessarily the slowest equipment you can control. It's the equipment that best matches the player's technique, physical ability and intended game.
Fatigue simply exposed something I normally don't notice when I'm fresh: how much the equipment itself is helping to transfer my physical input into the ball.

Sometimes the table-tennis laboratory is just a very tired uncle, a racket bag, and a competition. 😄
 
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I've argued for a while that slower isn't necessarily more controlled or better for learning, it's very complicated. Too slow equipment can in fact harm technical development and I've seen this in beginners and myself.

After I switched to more reactive equipment, my FH stroke became more compact and powerful than before which carried on to allwood setups, because it made the correct technique more obvious. Of course my idea of more reactive is still very slow to people who hit with an even more compact stroke and less body into it. I'm not suggesting everyone switches to a Hinoki carbon with Bryce Speed.
 

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You don’t need to use slow equipment. You just need to learn to wait, let the ball fly into your hitting zone by itself, and not reach out for it.
What you need to do is: turn with the ball > let the ball enter your zone > turn back and caress the ball with your racket.
If the incoming ball has topspin, caress its “forehead.” If the incoming ball has backspin, caress its “nose.”

Apart from turning and caressing, you don’t need to rely on any other strength. If you use your shoulder or upper arm strength, then it’s no longer a caress but a punch—this makes the rubber launch the ball out before it has time to impart spin to it.

Once you’ve mastered turning and caressing, if you want the ball to be a bit faster without losing spin, don’t use your shoulder or upper arm strength. Just turn and caress more quickly—still after waiting for the ball to fly into your zone by itself.
 
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You don’t need to use slow equipment. You just need to learn to wait, let the ball fly into your hitting zone by itself, and not reach out for it.
What you need to do is: turn with the ball > let the ball enter your zone > turn back and caress the ball with your racket.
If the incoming ball has topspin, caress its “forehead.” If the incoming ball has backspin, caress its “nose.”

Apart from turning and caressing, you don’t need to rely on any other strength. If you use your shoulder or upper arm strength, then it’s no longer a caress but a punch—this makes the rubber launch the ball out before it has time to impart spin to it.

Once you’ve mastered turning and caressing, if you want the ball to be a bit faster without losing spin, don’t use your shoulder or upper arm strength. Just turn and caress more quickly—still after waiting for the ball to fly into your zone by itself.
Huge agree on the waiting for the ball part. A ton of people swing first then move, me included. Working on this is the most important thing I've done lately and it's slowed the game down a lot. I don't instantly perform better because of other reasons, but the game is a lot easier and I'm more consistent.

At the level most people play at, you have a lot more time than you might think, especially if you can anticipate a little. Even strong shots will be reactable and you can move to them with time to spare unless you're too close to the table. If you reach and let your CG fall too far towards the leading leg, then you're gonna not be able to reach even slow shots.
 
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