Go back to Hurricane?

[imbadatlooping]

Hello everyone! I've been playing with a Butterfly Petr Korbel with Fastarc G1 and C1 as a beginner setup for a couple months now. I'm a recovering ej and one of the setups i had was the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive with DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Prov. Blue sponge for forehand and Andro Rasanter R48 for backhand. When i played with that setup, i didn't like the outer ply of the MLEO, especially being paired with the Hurricane 3, it was just to hard and stiff so i had a difficult time playing with it (keep in mind, I'm still a beginner a little over 1000 usatt and have just now started to develop my feeling for brushing and looping the ball correctly). In the past with other setups, I've always flat hit but now i can actually brush and loop the ball.

I still really hope to play with Hurricane 3 because I love playing with Chinese tacky rubbers and i really hope i can play well with it in the future (Also, i got demolished by a 2100 guy that played with H3N and lowkey loved his play style, which got me wanting to play it even more and I've aspired to play like him one day). I don't plan on changing blades any time soon because i just love the blade so much, it can do everything i want it to do and it truly fits me.

With that being said, after my rubbers on my Petr Korbel dies would it be okay to switch to Hurricane 3 on the FH? Would the H3N play better with the Petr Korbel rather than the MLEO? The only issue i had before with it was that i didn't have the technique to brush/loop the ball with it (especially against any backspin) and having it on a hard/stiff wood blade didn't really help me in my opinion (beside the constant switching of setups and not dedicated to stick with something and learn lol). However, now that I've been really focusing on the loop/topspin shots and have finally been getting somewhere with that technique. Should i try H3N again or should i still stick with what i got.

*** I'm going to listen to everyone's advice, not just post something and continue to do what i want (which i admit i have done that before). I want to get better and I'm willing to listen to the advice of everyone here (since majority of the people on here are more experienced and know better than I do), even if its not advice i necessarily want to hear. If majority thinks its best for me to stick with what i got than that's what i plan on doing. I just want to know if i should go for it or not ***

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

Hello everyone! I've been playing with a Butterfly Petr Korbel with Fastarc G1 and C1 as a beginner setup for a couple months now. I'm a recovering ej and one of the setups i had was the Yasaka Ma Lin Extra Offensive with DHS Hurricane 3 Neo Prov. Blue sponge for forehand and Andro Rasanter R48 for backhand. When i played with that setup, i didn't like the outer ply of the MLEO, especially being paired with the Hurricane 3, it was just to hard and stiff so i had a difficult time playing with it (keep in mind, I'm still a beginner a little over 1000 usatt and have just now started to develop my feeling for brushing and looping the ball correctly). In the past with other setups, I've always flat hit but now i can actually brush and loop the ball.

I still really hope to play with Hurricane 3 because I love playing with Chinese tacky rubbers and i really hope i can play well with it in the future (Also, i got demolished by a 2100 guy that played with H3N and lowkey loved his play style, which got me wanting to play it even more and I've aspired to play like him one day). I don't plan on changing blades any time soon because i just love the blade so much, it can do everything i want it to do and it truly fits me.

With that being said, after my rubbers on my Petr Korbel dies would it be okay to switch to Hurricane 3 on the FH? Would the H3N play better with the Petr Korbel rather than the MLEO? The only issue i had before with it was that i didn't have the technique to brush/loop the ball with it (especially against any backspin) and having it on a hard/stiff wood blade didn't really help me in my opinion (beside the constant switching of setups and not dedicated to stick with something and learn lol). However, now that I've been really focusing on the loop/topspin shots and have finally been getting somewhere with that technique. Should i try H3N again or should i still stick with what i got.

*** I'm going to listen to everyone's advice, not just post something and continue to do what i want (which i admit i have done that before). I want to get better and I'm willing to listen to the advice of everyone here (since majority of the people on here are more experienced and know better than I do), even if its not advice i necessarily want to hear. If majority thinks its best for me to stick with what i got than that's what i plan on doing. I just want to know if i should go for it or not ***

You might be able to appreciate Hurricane more now that you have developed your technique, so it's definitely good to try it again. You could try the Hurricane on the Kornel first and if you don't like it, you can just remove it and glue it in the MLEO and see if it plays better on that. If you boost it with 1 or 2 layers of Haifu, it will definitely feel much better than unboosted. I'm actually planning on trying out different rubbers and I ordered 2 sheets of Hurricane 3 Blue Sponge in 39° so if you are interested, I would sell you my 2 sheets (whenever I get them because they just passed customs in the US) for a good price, and I live in the US so you wouldn't have to sorry about tariffs and all that other crap. I currently play with Skyline 2 in FH and Hurricane 3 Neo Blue Sponge on BH on a Golden Long 5 Penhold and I've always liked DHS rubbers.

 

[imbadatlooping]

You might be able to appreciate Hurricane more now that you have developed your technique, so it's definitely good to try it again. You could try the Hurricane on the Kornel first and if you don't like it, you can just remove it and glue it in the MLEO and see if it plays better on that. If you boost it with 1 or 2 layers of Haifu, it will definitely feel much better than unboosted. I'm actually planning on trying out different rubbers and I ordered 2 sheets of Hurricane 3 Blue Sponge in 39° so if you are interested, I would sell you my 2 sheets (whenever I get them because they just passed customs in the US) for a good price, and I live in the US so you wouldn't have to sorry about tariffs and all that other crap. I currently play with Skyline 2 in FH and Hurricane 3 Neo Blue Sponge on BH on a Golden Long 5 Penhold and I've always liked DHS rubbers.

Thanks for your input! Unfortunately i don't have the MLEO anymore. When I bought my Petr Korbel setup, I was determined to keep with it so i donated some of my ej setups to my local club and someone else now plays with it. I also appreciate the thought on selling me your sheets if you don't like them but ill have to pass. My rubbers still have a while to go before they die and I'm not planning on buying any new sheets of rubber at the moment.
For the time ive spent playing with the H3N, it really was quite the rubber! Even though i played unboosted, i still loved it. The control, spin, and touch on short balls was phenomenal.

 

[JJ Ng]

Yes, ok to go back to hurricane. I don't understand the line of thought that hurricane is too difficult for beginners. Little kids in China get started on hurricane all the time as beginners.

You can grow into your equipment over time.

 

[imbadatlooping]

Yes, ok to go back to hurricane. I don't understand the line of thought that hurricane is too difficult for beginners. Little kids in China get started on hurricane all the time as beginners.

You can grow into your equipment over time.

Yeah. Ive heard its really good for developing as long as you have a coach. At the time I just never figured out how to brush/loop a ball so all i did was flat hit with it. Not knowing how to brush/loop the ball while also having it unboosted and it being on a stiff/hard blade, it was just a disaster waiting to happen lol. Hopefully now i can play better with it since i know what it should feel like now.

 

[imbadatlooping]

For the future if i do change to H3N, what would you recommend, the Provincial Orange or Provincial Blue for beginners (39 degree max sponge)?

 

[MOJOJOJO-74]

For the future if i do change to H3N, what would you recommend, the Provincial Orange or Provincial Blue for beginners (39 degree max sponge)?

I would say Provincial Orange 39° if you're playing unboosted and Provincial Blue 39° if you're playing boosted. If someone at your club has Hurricane, you could ask to try it (and it's most likely boosted too so you can feel the difference) that way you can decide whether you want to try boosting the rubber yourself, or you prefer playing unboosted. Also, here's a thread that people in the TTD forum tells the differences and their experiences, so hopefully this gives you a better idea on Blue vs Orange Sponge.

https://www.tabletennisdaily.com/forum/topics/h3-provincial-blue-or-orange-sponge.31937/

 

[Lazer]

I don’t agree either that H3 is more difficult. Chinese rubbers usually brushes better and ESN rubbers does better åt full contact due to the snap the catapult generates. The only thing with H3 is that you need to really go for it away from the table. Åt a distance a rubber like T05 has the upper hand. Like most people I find the provincial version being consistent enough.

Bottom line is anybody can play H3 and anybody can play ESN. When changing it takes a little time that’s all…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[willyum]

h3 is the way to go

 

[Archosaurus]

For the future if i do change to H3N, what would you recommend, the Provincial Orange or Provincial Blue for beginners (39 degree max sponge)?

Commercial H3N or commercial Battle 2, or Provincial blue sponge Battle 2 if you can get it on an aliexpress sale for just a little more than the standard one, but don't buy it if it's more than a couple dollars more expensive. Those rubbers are effectively the same for someone your level, and the 729 ones will be cheaper. EDIT: Sanwei Target series probably also totally fine; I will test them soonish and I am not surprised if they feel nigh identical to all the others.

Why do you want to use provincial rubbers? You're a sub-1000 play level beginner (Seeing as you can't brush the ball), plenty of people in the world play with commercial versions just fine. Who do you think they're for if they're not for you?

Don't waste your money on DHS provincial rubbers, the primary benefit is that the QC on the hardness of the sponge is more precise. It doesn't make sense to pay a premium for more specific gear when your gear doesn't need to be specific because it makes no difference if it's 39 or 41 deg. All of the Chinese dense linear sponge rubbers are effectively exactly the same for beginners and lower intermediates. There's some specific things about them, but they don't matter to you. 729 provincial versions can be fine as they are found for almost the same price as the commercial version and are typically just a different sponge.

Don't boost your rubbers, it will make them harder to play short which isn't useful for you right now. It's also expensive and annoying. Just rub water on the rubber surface after play and put a protective sheet on after lightly drying it.

I'd also probably downgrade to a slower blade that is less elastic and more flexible, but I'm sure you can manage with the Petr Korbel if you do the right drills. It can take easily a year or two to learn to consistently brush the ball.

 

[jk1980]

I doubt that a few months with the G-1 setup would magically teach you properly how to loop. That is why I would advise not to go back to hurricane that early. You probably don't even have good enough footwork and technique to consistently loop in matches, so what is the point in switching to something that will not help you become better quicker.

You might say "hey, my consistency with the G-1 is 30% loop success in a match, so it's not that far of the 15% loop success with hurricane" but relatively this is a huge difference.

My advice would be to get properly used to G-1 and get a success rate of 80% in matches with it. Then you can try the hurricane again. At that stage your footwork and tactics will be good enough to bring you into the position to successfully loop in matches. Only with these fundamentals you will see how much you will give up by using Hurricane and the added benefit is that you will much less to work and focus on when switching to hurricane, since the other basics are covered

 

[mamedium]

You should watch this before going to H3

 

[Nima Abadi]

@imbadatlooping

If you do decide to switch, then you have to stick with it or it will mess up your game.

Personally, I've only played with Chinese rubbers on my FH. I'd say, 70% of the technique comes from your lower body and foot work so learning how to brush loop is only 30% and that's the easy part. If you don't work on your lower body, then you can never scape beginner level.

I do not recommend starting with blue sponge at all regardless of the hardness, start with 39 orange sponge, work your way up to 40 OS and then switch to blue. You'll know when to switch to blue (you can max out the speed/spin on your OS).

@Lazer It's not an easy rubber to learn, that's exactly why in China they get kids to play with it early on cause you need to learn how to play with it and it takes more time and effort. I remember Felix Lebrun said something in these lines as well when he was asked about playing with Chinese rubbers.

 

[Archosaurus]

@imbadatlooping

If you do decide to switch, then you have to stick with it or it will mess up your game.

Personally, I've only played with Chinese rubbers on my FH. I'd say, 70% of the technique comes from your lower body and foot work so learning how to brush loop is only 30% and that's the easy part. If you don't work on your lower body, then you can never scape beginner level.

I do not recommend starting with blue sponge at all regardless of the hardness, start with 39 orange sponge, work your way up to 40 OS and then switch to blue. You'll know when to switch to blue (you can max out the speed/spin on your OS).

@Lazer It's not an easy rubber to learn, that's exactly why in China they get kids to play with it early on cause you need to learn how to play with it and it takes more time and effort. I remember Felix Lebrun said something in these lines as well when he was asked about playing with Chinese rubbers.

The measurable difference on BS and OS is probably very low. BS is just a stiffer spring due to higher density at the same surface hardness, not much more to it. It won't make any difference to a beginner; it'll just feel a bit faster. It's made to be a forehand sponge because the forehand tends to be able to generate higher load than the backhand.

There is no way to "max out" spin or speed with human kinematics, so I don't know what that's about either. If you're talking about bottoming the sponge so it clicks, you can do that far before you're near your physiological limits.

In general though I'd agree, because commercial orange sponge is under half the price of provincial blue sponge. I'd still go for it on 729 rubbers, because the price delta is in the single dollar range, unless you happen to specifically like a softer and slower sponge on the forehand than most people do.

 

[victormanriquey]

The measurable difference on BS and OS is probably very low. BS is just a stiffer spring due to higher density at the same surface hardness, not much more to it. It won't make any difference to a beginner; it'll just feel a bit faster. It's made to be a forehand sponge because the forehand tends to be able to generate higher load than the backhand.

Main thing intermediate players will notice from OS to BS is that opening heavy backspin on blue is harder due to the lower throw and harder sponge. You may feel the catapult difference and sponge density as well

 

[Lazer]

@imbadatlooping

If you do decide to switch, then you have to stick with it or it will mess up your game.

Personally, I've only played with Chinese rubbers on my FH. I'd say, 70% of the technique comes from your lower body and foot work so learning how to brush loop is only 30% and that's the easy part. If you don't work on your lower body, then you can never scape beginner level.

I do not recommend starting with blue sponge at all regardless of the hardness, start with 39 orange sponge, work your way up to 40 OS and then switch to blue. You'll know when to switch to blue (you can max out the speed/spin on your OS).

@Lazer It's not an easy rubber to learn, that's exactly why in China they get kids to play with it early on cause you need to learn how to play with it and it takes more time and effort. I remember Felix Lebrun said something in these lines as well when he was asked about playing with Chinese rubbers.

I disagree. It’s not more difficult than others. They all have there own quirks. The short game for instance is a lot easier… The only drawback (if any) is that you need to hit harder for power…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Archosaurus]

Main thing intermediate players will notice from OS to BS is that opening heavy backspin on blue is harder due to the lower throw and harder sponge. You may feel the catapult difference and sponge density as well

It really depends on the exact normal speed and what axis you're hitting the opponent's spin and how heavy the opponent's spin is.

Probably there is zero realistic throw angle difference as throw angle within very similar sponges is almost entirely a function of the pimple length, thickness, distribution density and stiffness along the pimple's axes. The topsheets should be the same geometry and material, but who knows. One may be harder or softer.

I believe the sponge, especially on these non-springy dense sponges, is mostly a resultant effect ie: throw will feel lower if the shot has less spin and more speed which tends to be the trend with blue vs orange sponge if used by amateurs who are not bottoming out the sponge on every shot. It will have more speed and more spin if you're bottoming out on every shot.

In terms of how much the spin reverses, it's a very multi-dimensional thing. The harder sponge can make the spin reverse less, making the shot easier, but it also effectively increases the topsheet stiffness, making the input force for maximum spin generation higher.

In practice I'd say get either of them, it won't really matter for a beginner. If you would have missed the shot with blue sponge, you would have missed it with orange too. Get the cheaper one.

I disagree. It’s not more difficult than others. They all have there own quirks. The short game for instance is a lot easier… The only drawback (if any) is that you need to hit harder for power…

Cheers
L-zr

I've found harder, and blue sponge, to always be faster, including short game. It makes sense from a kinematics standpoint. Although I use a lot of force in my short game, with mostly heavy sidespin pushes to counteract spin and keep incoming spinny serves short.

Maybe it's slower when you're just touching the shot over with no force, but you'd need to do some A-B testing to actually confirm it.

It's also faster in blocking, especially against high level players who generate high quality.

The one thing I will say less stiff sponges are better for is thin contact looping and just overall feeling, although mine always seem to have a short break-in period after which they feel softer in the hand. I've found there is a tendency for the ball to barely slip off with dense sponges if you're not quite right with the contact.

 

[imbadatlooping]

Commercial H3N or commercial Battle 2, or Provincial blue sponge Battle 2 if you can get it on an aliexpress sale for just a little more than the standard one, but don't buy it if it's more than a couple dollars more expensive. Those rubbers are effectively the same for someone your level, and the 729 ones will be cheaper. EDIT: Sanwei Target series probably also totally fine; I will test them soonish and I am not surprised if they feel nigh identical to all the others.

Why do you want to use provincial rubbers? You're a sub-1000 play level beginner (Seeing as you can't brush the ball), plenty of people in the world play with commercial versions just fine. Who do you think they're for if they're not for you?

Don't waste your money on DHS provincial rubbers, the primary benefit is that the QC on the hardness of the sponge is more precise. It doesn't make sense to pay a premium for more specific gear when your gear doesn't need to be specific because it makes no difference if it's 39 or 41 deg. All of the Chinese dense linear sponge rubbers are effectively exactly the same for beginners and lower intermediates. There's some specific things about them, but they don't matter to you. 729 provincial versions can be fine as they are found for almost the same price as the commercial version and are typically just a different sponge.

Don't boost your rubbers, it will make them harder to play short which isn't useful for you right now. It's also expensive and annoying. Just rub water on the rubber surface after play and put a protective sheet on after lightly drying it.

I'd also probably downgrade to a slower blade that is less elastic and more flexible, but I'm sure you can manage with the Petr Korbel if you do the right drills. It can take easily a year or two to learn to consistently brush the ball.

The only reason I was thinking of going with prov is like you said, the QC I've heard is way better for privincial. I was thinking OS prov since it might be the best of both worlds, where I have the easy use from commercial and the QC of a prov (but idk that was my thinking). Also, I'm already managing well with Petr Korbel. I'm coming from some EJ setups that are insanely fast, so the Petr Korbel with the fastarc rubbers has been great, and found no issues with controlling it. Also, my official ranking is 1049 USATT (I've only played in 3 tournaments), but I have beaten 1200-1300 players (this was before I even learned how to loop, so my ego says I can even win against a 1400, but that's just me being big-headed lmao).

 

[Lazer]

It really depends on the exact normal speed and what axis you're hitting the opponent's spin and how heavy the opponent's spin is.

Probably there is zero realistic throw angle difference as throw angle within very similar sponges is almost entirely a function of the pimple length, thickness, distribution density and stiffness along the pimple's axes. The topsheets should be the same geometry and material, but who knows. One may be harder or softer.

I believe the sponge, especially on these non-springy dense sponges, is mostly a resultant effect ie: throw will feel lower if the shot has less spin and more speed which tends to be the trend with blue vs orange sponge if used by amateurs who are not bottoming out the sponge on every shot. It will have more speed and more spin if you're bottoming out on every shot.

In terms of how much the spin reverses, it's a very multi-dimensional thing. The harder sponge can make the spin reverse less, making the shot easier, but it also effectively increases the topsheet stiffness, making the input force for maximum spin generation higher.

In practice I'd say get either of them, it won't really matter for a beginner. If you would have missed the shot with blue sponge, you would have missed it with orange too. Get the cheaper one.



I've found harder, and blue sponge, to always be faster, including short game. It makes sense from a kinematics standpoint. Although I use a lot of force in my short game, with mostly heavy sidespin pushes to counteract spin and keep incoming spinny serves short.

Maybe it's slower when you're just touching the shot over with no force, but you'd need to do some A-B testing to actually confirm it.

It's also faster in blocking, especially against high level players who generate high quality.

The one thing I will say less stiff sponges are better for is thin contact looping and just overall feeling, although mine always seem to have a short break-in period after which they feel softer in the hand. I've found there is a tendency for the ball to barely slip off with dense sponges if you're not quite right with the contact.

It's definatly slower... All my other rubbers are faster than my (boosted) H3 (both orange and blue) in the short game. This is the reason I started to play them... And most of my other rubbers are also faster with mid power.
It's only at high power H3 excels....

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Archosaurus]

It's definatly slower... All my other rubbers are faster than my (boosted) H3 (both orange and blue) in the short game. This is the reason I started to play them... And most of my other rubbers are also faster with mid power.
It's only at high power H3 excels....

Cheers
L-zr

Slower compared to tensors, sure. Even when boosted. I'm comparing stiffer sponge to less stiff sponge on the same rubber. Of course nobody knows the absolute exact performance curves so there can be some situations where it's different.

The only reason I was thinking of going with prov is like you said, the QC I've heard is way better for privincial. I was thinking OS prov since it might be the best of both worlds, where I have the easy use from commercial and the QC of a prov (but idk that was my thinking). Also, I'm already managing well with Petr Korbel. I'm coming from some EJ setups that are insanely fast, so the Petr Korbel with the fastarc rubbers has been great, and found no issues with controlling it. Also, my official ranking is 1049 USATT (I've only played in 3 tournaments), but I have beaten 1200-1300 players (this was before I even learned how to loop, so my ego says I can even win against a 1400, but that's just me being big-headed lmao).

QC being better means it's closer to what you're buying. If you're buying a 2.15mm in 41 hardness, it will be closer to that than the commercial version on average. You could still buy an exact commercial version and get a dud provincial. They all come out of the exact same batches and the only difference is that the commercial versions have less man-hours spent on testing them. The hardness and thickness reported is an average from the batch. At least, that's what DHS and DHS connected people claim and that's typically how all mass production works, but if you want to believe that is up to you.

This matters to players who have an intimate understanding of the rubber properties and don't want a 38deg sheet when they wanted a 40deg sheet. Even then, very particular (More like superstitious IMO) people will send rubbers back if they differ from their ideal spec even a little. Even Zyre or Dignics will have a relatively large spread in the hardness that you get when you buy them, and some sheets are more consistent than others across the area. There's also a reason that ESN rubbers typically need to be "Soft, Mid, Hard" in EU and not exact degrees; they even say +-2deg on the packet in other regions.

None of this matters to you at all. You will play identically with any of them. Get whatever is cheapest, or failing that, whatever you feel best emotionally with. I just suggest not wasting money on DHS hyped provincial rubbers which have a 200%+ markup until you have a world ranking and it matters to you. Of course it's your money, so do whatever with it that you like.

The reality of the matter is that 1400 is not exactly high, and you can beat a 1400 with heavy serves, well placed pushes and blocks. They will miss 90% of their shots by themselves. You don't even need to attack. I'm not particularly good and I beat people like that just putting the ball back on the table.

So it doesn't really matter what "level" you play at and who you "can beat", just focus on what you're doing to the ball.

I suggest rolling the ball off the table, and just when it drops off the edge, brushing it softly with just your wrist and forearm. Those spin training things which skewer the ball and allow you to spin it in place are good too. Then try to do it in drills, starting off slow and high.