Americans, do you still buy equipment from Aliexpress?

[Tyce]

I'm not talking about Mercury. If this was an order of $75 worth of Mercury I wouldn't have been surprised, because that's stuff with a proven track record that just happens to be super cheap.
Loki, on the other hand, is producing wildly varying performance, even makes tacky and non tacky topsheets with the same product name, and has a track record of quickly wearing, bubbling-prone rubbers that are just plain crap.

Gambler? It's an established but small brand. Absolutely nothing wrong to say about them. What's the producer of the blade in this order? It doesn't even say in the picture. But they do have the audacity to ask $40 where you really don't know what you get. Now that's what I call a gambler...

If you insist on shelling out cash for this kind of crap, of course I can't and won't actually stop you. But I can at least try to talk some damn sense every once in a while.

 

[TensorBackhand]

I'm not talking about Mercury. If this was an order of $75 worth of Mercury I wouldn't have been surprised, because that's stuff with a proven track record that just happens to be super cheap.
Loki, on the other hand, is producing wildly varying performance, even makes tacky and non tacky topsheets with the same product name, and has a track record of quickly wearing, bubbling-prone rubbers that are just plain crap.

Gambler? It's an established but small brand. Absolutely nothing wrong to say about them. What's the producer of the blade in this order? It doesn't even say in the picture. But they do have the audacity to ask $40 where you really don't know what you get. Now that's what I call a gambler...

If you insist on shelling out cash for this kind of crap, of course I can't and won't actually stop you. But I can at least try to talk some damn sense every once in a while.

The maker of the blade is Lemuria. I have had several blades from them in the past, and they were all excellent.

 

[suds79]

I'm not talking about Mercury. If this was an order of $75 worth of Mercury I wouldn't have been surprised, because that's stuff with a proven track record that just happens to be super cheap.
Loki, on the other hand, is producing wildly varying performance, even makes tacky and non tacky topsheets with the same product name, and has a track record of quickly wearing, bubbling-prone rubbers that are just plain crap.

Gambler? It's an established but small brand. Absolutely nothing wrong to say about them. What's the producer of the blade in this order? It doesn't even say in the picture. But they do have the audacity to ask $40 where you really don't know what you get. Now that's what I call a gambler...

If you insist on shelling out cash for this kind of crap, of course I can't and won't actually stop you. But I can at least try to talk some damn sense every once in a while.

Fair enough. Sounds like you evaluate each brand based on reputation and what you know about them and judge accordingly. Expensive or not. I was under the impression that you were implying just because it's inexpensive, it's crap. Often times you don't have to search too far and wide to find folks with that outlook. But that doesn't seem to be your stance based on this post so I hear what you are saying.

 

[JJ Ng]

Eh I don't know. To each their own but I've found that more expensive doesn't always = better. Hang on let me look around in storage here. I know there's a garage sale paddle I can't even remember where I got somewhere. (few minutes later) Ah here it is. Now I have two of them. One of them is a dollar. The other is 10. I'm willing to sell you them. You get to pick. Naturally the 10 dollar one is worth more right? ... Right? (#rehtorical)

My personal experiences:


2
Back in the day one of first blades I had was a Stiga Clipper Classic. I want to say I paid around 80 bucks for it. It was widely regarded as a great blade. Now a days carbon is more in favor but at that time that was a great blade. And it was good. However since that time I've owned 3 Gambler blades (a US supplier) and they typically sell their blades for $40. Every singe blade I've had from then has not only matched that Clipper in build quality & performance but I'd say has exceeded it. How can this be? It's $40 vs $80? Oh that's right. Gambler doesn't have the massive marketing budget to support like Gambler does. Sometimes something is just more expensive not necessarily because it's better but because that company knows they can get away with it selling X product at that price. If they can get more based on name, why not?

Gambler makes good blades. Their rubbers, I don't like at all.

Their blades can go from very slow to very fast so quite a range to select from.

Gambler Pure 7 is one of the best all wood blade.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Wow. $75 worth of minimum quality equipment.
Sorry about the bluntness but I simply can't hold this in. How are you still falling for this stuff?
If you cancel this order, and repeat doing that for a couple of months, you can easily pay for that w968 you've been trying to find cheap alternatives for. And the T05, D09c too. Heck, you can pay for a couple of good coaching sessions, too to get the best out of it.

Today I practiced with my friend's W968 with Dignics on it.

Just to be 100% honest, I found it very underwhelming. It has a fairly soft feeling with a good catch and flex and a little bit of snap. Probably feels slightly more responsive than the average Long 5.

But honestly I think my Lemuria 968 clone is actually better. It has a great flex and catch, but feels snappier and more responsive.

In a totally blind test, I would prefer the Lemuria.

 

[Tyce]

Today I practiced with my friend's W968 with Dignics on it.

Just to be 100% honest, I found it very underwhelming. It has a fairly soft feeling with a good catch and flex and a little bit of snap. Probably feels slightly more responsive than the average Long 5.

But honestly I think my Lemuria 968 clone is actually better. It has a great flex and catch, but feels snappier and more responsive.

In a totally blind test, I would prefer the Lemuria.

Snobby as it may sound, I assume your Lemuria just has more response on low power.
If that works for you, that's great. Just don't expect a second one to perform anywhere close.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Snobby as it may sound, I assume your Lemuria just has more response on low power.
If that works for you, that's great. Just don't expect a second one to perform anywhere close.

In the hands of Ma Long, the W968 is a very dangerous weapon surely.

But for just me, I am very particular about the blade that I like. I want a blade with a very good catch, that has a very thin and light feeling rather than a dense/bricky feeling. This is probably my #1 demand for the blade.

My #2 demand is that I want a blade that feels responsive and snappy.

I think its pretty hard to get this combination. And I agree with you that every Lemuria will feel different, and it will be hard to get one that gets both of these features.

 

[Tyce]

The features you describe are practically opposites, so I guess you want something that's at the right place in the middle of that.

I'm thinking thin+carbon, but also thin blades with a hard surface might be a good fit.

Have you played any butterfly innerforce blades? Or Donic Waldner Senso (ultra) Carbon, Donic original true carbon (outer/inner) ? A lighter weight Viscaria, Stiga intensity nct, or thinner like Hurricane King, all sound like they might be something you would like.

 

[TensorBackhand]

The features you describe are practically opposites, so I guess you want something that's at the right place in the middle of that.

I'm thinking thin+carbon, but also thin blades with a hard surface might be a good fit.

Have you played any butterfly innerforce blades? Or Donic Waldner Senso (ultra) Carbon, Donic original true carbon (outer/inner) ? A lighter weight Viscaria, Stiga intensity nct, or thinner like Hurricane King, all sound like they might be something you would like.

I have TB alc, TB zlc, and super viscaria. They are snappy but dont have good catch at all.

I tried someone's Harimoto szlc and thought it was quite good.

Harimoto alc feels a bit soft and without the snap if i recall.

 

[Pipo_nhoc]

Today I practiced with my friend's W968 with Dignics on it.

Just to be 100% honest, I found it very underwhelming. It has a fairly soft feeling with a good catch and flex and a little bit of snap. Probably feels slightly more responsive than the average Long 5.

But honestly I think my Lemuria 968 clone is actually better. It has a great flex and catch, but feels snappier and more responsive.

In a totally blind test, I would prefer the Lemuria.

Could you please share with me your Lemuria blade's image?
Also where can I get that?

 

[TensorBackhand]

Could you please share with me your Lemuria blade's image?
Also where can I get that?

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806931262157.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000039458089217%22%7D&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0o.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

 

[Pipo_nhoc]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256806931262157.html?pdp_ext_f=%7B%22sku_id%22%3A%2212000039458089217%22%7D&sourceType=1&spm=a2g0o.wish-manage-home.0.0&gatewayAdapt=glo2usa4itemAdapt

Thanks for the link, may I know how does this feel compare with your stuor harimoto (stuor 20)?

 

[Migzkulit]

The features you describe are practically opposites, so I guess you want something that's at the right place in the middle of that.

I'm thinking thin+carbon, but also thin blades with a hard surface might be a good fit.

Have you played any butterfly innerforce blades? Or Donic Waldner Senso (ultra) Carbon, Donic original true carbon (outer/inner) ? A lighter weight Viscaria, Stiga intensity nct, or thinner like Hurricane King, all sound like they might be something you would like.

Thin hinoki carbon blade ?

 

[turbozed]

Wow. $75 worth of minimum quality equipment.
Sorry about the bluntness but I simply can't hold this in. How are you still falling for this stuff?
If you cancel this order, and repeat doing that for a couple of months, you can easily pay for that w968 you've been trying to find cheap alternatives for. And the T05, D09c too. Heck, you can pay for a couple of good coaching sessions, too to get the best out of it.

I think you're the one "falling for stuff."

If you buy a smartphone that's 1/5th the cost of the latest iPhone, I'd expect the performance to greatly affect that. But, that's an electronic device using the most advanced technology, materials, and millions of dollars worth of development.

A table tennis blade is a piece of cut and glued wood. Sometimes with a thin layer of composite material glued in. The fact that individuals with woodworking skills working alone can create good quality custom blades that players prefer playing with more than the largest brands is a testament to the fact that scale manufacturing processes don't improve playability.

The same thing happens with pickleball paddles which are way more complex and use a larger mix of more expensive materials. JOOLA sells their top of their line paddles for close to $300. Alibaba clones of the same paddle bought for $40 play so similarly that some players in a blind test either can't tell the difference or prefer the clone.

Here's a quick thought experiment for you. Let's say you see a great looking dinner table from a fancy Italian company that costs $2000. Your friend is a woodworker who says that he can make the same table for you for $400. He says he can cut the table to the exact dimensions, use the same exact wood, and replicate the table pretty much exactly.

In this scenario, does the difference in cost of the two tables actually indicate quality? Would you have less enjoyable meals on the cheaper table? Physically they are the same and function the same. Any benefit would be psychological or status based knowing you bought the "real" table rather than anything related to physical reality. Now consider the fact that a table tennis blade is much easier to reproduce.

Rubbers are a different story, with a lot more variables and definitely not something a single person working in a workshop can produce reliably. But the technology is still easily copied amongst Chinese manufacturers. Hell, they even started making better EV vehicles in a few years after taking the knowledge learned from the Tesla Shanghai factory. Rubbers and glued pieces of wood are pretty much child's play in comparison.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Thanks for the link, may I know how does this feel compare with your stuor harimoto (stuor 20)?

The long 5 clone is flexier and feels safer with more control, but still snappy and responsive

The Stuor 20 is stiffer, more authoratative and respinsive, but still catches the ball well.

These are my 2 best blades

 

[Lazer]

I think you're the one "falling for stuff."

If you buy a smartphone that's 1/5th the cost of the latest iPhone, I'd expect the performance to greatly affect that. But, that's an electronic device using the most advanced technology, materials, and millions of dollars worth of development.

A table tennis blade is a piece of cut and glued wood. Sometimes with a thin layer of composite material glued in. The fact that individuals with woodworking skills working alone can create good quality custom blades that players prefer playing with more than the largest brands is a testament to the fact that scale manufacturing processes don't improve playability.

The same thing happens with pickleball paddles which are way more complex and use a larger mix of more expensive materials. JOOLA sells their top of their line paddles for close to $300. Alibaba clones of the same paddle bought for $40 play so similarly that some players in a blind test either can't tell the difference or prefer the clone.

Here's a quick thought experiment for you. Let's say you see a great looking dinner table from a fancy Italian company that costs $2000. Your friend is a woodworker who says that he can make the same table for you for $400. He says he can cut the table to the exact dimensions, use the same exact wood, and replicate the table pretty much exactly.

In this scenario, does the difference in cost of the two tables actually indicate quality? Would you have less enjoyable meals on the cheaper table? Physically they are the same and function the same. Any benefit would be psychological or status based knowing you bought the "real" table rather than anything related to physical reality. Now consider the fact that a table tennis blade is much easier to reproduce.

Rubbers are a different story, with a lot more variables and definitely not something a single person working in a workshop can produce reliably. But the technology is still easily copied amongst Chinese manufacturers. Hell, they even started making better EV vehicles in a few years after taking the knowledge learned from the Tesla Shanghai factory. Rubbers and glued pieces of wood are pretty much child's play in comparison.

But there is a difference…
- selection of material
- quality control

You can expect 10 products from a well known company to be significantly more similar than 10 from the copy cat…

Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

I think you're the one "falling for stuff."

I don't, I play with a €40 blade. But I don't expect €200-blade-performance from it.

If you buy a smartphone that's 1/5th the cost of the latest iPhone, I'd expect the performance to greatly affect that. But, that's an electronic device using the most advanced technology, materials, and millions of dollars worth of development.

Actually iPhones are pretty notorious for having a low component price compared to the sales price.

A table tennis blade is a piece of cut and glued wood. Sometimes with a thin layer of composite material glued in. The fact that individuals with woodworking skills working alone can create good quality custom blades that players prefer playing with more than the largest brands is a testament to the fact that scale manufacturing processes don't improve playability.

The same thing happens with pickleball paddles which are way more complex and use a larger mix of more expensive materials. JOOLA sells their top of their line paddles for close to $300. Alibaba clones of the same paddle bought for $40 play so similarly that some players in a blind test either can't tell the difference or prefer the clone.

Here's a quick thought experiment for you. Let's say you see a great looking dinner table from a fancy Italian company that costs $2000. Your friend is a woodworker who says that he can make the same table for you for $400. He says he can cut the table to the exact dimensions, use the same exact wood, and replicate the table pretty much exactly.

In this scenario, does the difference in cost of the two tables actually indicate quality? Would you have less enjoyable meals on the cheaper table? Physically they are the same and function the same. Any benefit would be psychological or status based knowing you bought the "real" table rather than anything related to physical reality. Now consider the fact that a table tennis blade is much easier to reproduce.

Honestly it's not. A dinner table with a bit more flex, slightly thicker plies or lighter wood still has the exact same functionality.

Rubbers are a different story, with a lot more variables and definitely not something a single person working in a workshop can produce reliably. But the technology is still easily copied amongst Chinese manufacturers. Hell, they even started making better EV vehicles in a few years after taking the knowledge learned from the Tesla Shanghai factory. Rubbers and glued pieces of wood are pretty much child's play in comparison.

Cars are the same as phones here. Low part cost, high R&D expense. If you let someone else do the R&D and then copy the result, skimping on a few points, you get a cheap car.


Of course it's not a linear scale, but you can simply expect more from a €200 blade than from a €40 blade. A bit more quality, consistency, layers actually selected to match well, similar balance, flex, between different specimen. And with so much variation in the cheap blade, even suggesting it performs like the expensive one is just false advertising.

 

[Pipo_nhoc]

The long 5 clone is flexier and feels safer with more control, but still snappy and responsive

The Stuor 20 is stiffer, more authoratative and respinsive, but still catches the ball well.

These are my 2 best blades

Did you tried the Stuor long 5 gold? Does it feel difference with the Lemura one?

 

[Tony's Table Tennis]

But there is a difference…
- selection of material
- quality control

You can expect 10 products from a well known company to be significantly more similar than 10 from the copy cat…

Sometimes you get lucky, sometimes not…

Cheers
L-zr

yep, if those cheap are so "great", then why isn't any one using it.

it is just unfortunate, that table tennis is so complicated and technique

tb is looking for flex
while everyone I know looks for the total opposite.

tb will say what pros use are terrible for him, and he would also be a contributor on ttd forum on what blades are great.

if those clones make high quality goods, then tb and those brands are not doing a good job promoting it.
blades are a lot more complicated to get right
not even tier 1 brands can get it right.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Did you tried the Stuor long 5 gold? Does it feel difference with the Lemura one?

I did have the Stuor long 5. It was very soft, too flexy, not responsive. I didnt like it. My Lemuria one was a 10 and Stuor was a 4.

But each blade will be different. I dont think they are very consistent