Are you allowed to refuse to play against someone ?

[lodro]

But in this context it doesn’t matter that boosting is also “illegal” under common law whereas using an unauthorised rubber isn’t! When playing a sport you are supposed to play to the rules of the sport…and the rules of Table Tennis state that both boosting and using unauthorised rubbers is not allowed. Table Tennis does not allow either! The fact that one of those things that Table Tennis doesn’t allow might also be illegal from a common law perspective doesn’t change the fact that Table Tennis doesn’t allow either!!!

The “logic” of what you’re suggesting is that it’s OK to break the rules of Table Tennis if breaking those rules doesn’t also break common law. That is an absurd position to hold because that would allow virtually every rule to be broken.

indeed. but i actually think it would be very difficult to state here in this forum the relevant law that prohibits the use of boosters.
As this fact of common law has been quoted here so many times, I now demand that the law should be shown here.

 

[James Z]

Yes, that's a very good point. I've been taking James Z at his word that boosters are actually illegal under common law. Even though this issue is irrelevant in the context of the need to abide by the rules of Table Tennis, it would be interesting to see the actual common law rulings that James Z is referring to. I'll second your request for James Z to post further details to prove that the use of boosters is actually contrary to common law.

If you or Lodro can answer question "Do you even understand why ITTF had tried to make (but failing miserably) speed-gluing & boosting not acceptable ??" which I have asked repeatedly but you are unable to answer or evade answering , the answer to your question will become obvious. I suggest that you do your research starting from the days of speed-glue ban & repeal days of 1995 and then continue on to 2008 booster ban and then to the preesent to get more information on this. I am not going to waste my time trying to explain this with uninformed, underinformed & misinformed players or the booster supremacists who want to be in denial and have convinced themselves that speed-gluing & boosting is unofficially ITTF approved & so it is Ok to do so.

Once you do that, only then I am willing to get into the discussion about OP's concerns about other ITTF unapproved & deapproved rubbers
On related side note you will find an almost full list of ITTF approved, unapproved & deapproved pips in the webpage below
https://ioctt.com/kg/parametrics.htm

 

[James Z]

lodro and I asked you to provide evidence that boosting is against common law. If you can do this then that great, if you can't then just say so...it really doesn't matter either way because the common law argument is irrelevant!

But I have already just answerd this.
If you can answer me as to the primary reason as to why ITTF banned speed-gluing & boosting, the answer to your above question will become very obvious
This will then also make clear as to my common law refernce is very relevant to this discussion especially in the context of very unfair & biased visual inspection of rackets compared to chemcial inspection of rackets by ITTF, which I explained earlier but you have chosen to conveniently ignore

 

[passifid]

An unconfirmed health incident in japan?

 

[James Z]

An unconfirmed health incident in japan?

Unconfirmed ? REALLY ?

This is why I keep telling people to do proper & thorough resarch on this before going into denial mode

 

[James Z]

OK, just for fun, let me answer that question for you. But this post is just for fun...post #31 is my serious response to you!!!

So your question is this - "Do you even understand why ITTF had tried to make (but failing miserably) speed-gluing & boosting not acceptable ??"

And here's my response - No, I don't understand why ITTF tried to do this. However, I do know that boosting is against the rules as they currently stand...and because I know that boosting is against the rules, I don't boost and I don't think other players should boost either. My not understanding why the rule was introduced has nothing to do with whether or not I know the rule exists and whether or not I follow the rule. I follow the rule because it's a rule, not because I have an understanding of all the events that led up to the rule being introduced. In a similar way, I don't know the full history and evolution behind the concept of having authorised racket coverings. However, I do know that there exists such a list of authorised coverings and that you are only allowed to play with rubbers that appear on the list. I only ever play with rubbers that are on the list because I know it is against the rules to play with a rubber that is not on the list. There are probably some great rubbers that are no longer on that list. Some of those rubbers might actually improve my game...but I won't play with them because they are not on the list of authorised racket coverings and I do not want to cheat when I play Table Tennis.

Waiting
( for something new instead of going in circles as usual )

 

[lodro]

Unconfirmed ? REALLY ?

This is why I keep telling people to do proper & thorough resarch on this before going into denial mode

If YOU would do proper research instead of waffling on senselessly, you would find that there is :
""" NO COUNTRY ON THIS PLANET " that has a law against boosting TT-rubbers 🤣🤣🤣

 

[MOG]

There is a player in our local league who will never play me, because I called him out for illegal serving once and called him a 'cheat'. Which I later apologised for. But he never plays our team anymore.

 

[James Z]

We have to be a little bit careful here. James Z has specifically referenced "common law" which is typically understood as a body of unwritten laws based on legal precedents and opinions established by the courts. So we shouldn't be looking for statute (i.e. specific written laws), but James Z should still be able to provide us with evidence (the court cases etc. upon which the common law is based).

I believe this is the 5th time I am repeating myself. If you can do your proper research starting back 1995 as to the PRIMARY REASON why ITTF banned speed gluing & boosting , the answer will become very clear to you

 

[lodro]

We have to be a little bit careful here. James Z has specifically referenced "common law" which is typically understood as a body of unwritten laws based on legal precedents and opinions established by the courts. So we shouldn't be looking for statute (i.e. specific written laws), but James Z should still be able to provide us with evidence (the court cases etc. upon which the common law is based).

of course you are correct but James will just simply waffle on, telling us it is up to us to prove such evidence.
He has NO Case, he knows he is just "" kicking shit up the hill"" as the saying goes 😂










of course you are correct

 

[Zwill]

These are not my words but this is pretty much what I remember were the reasons.

Speed glues were usually used alongside solvents and it was the use of those solvents which was a big issue. They contained vapours which could be quite harmful to health; these vapours are often used as inhalants.

For starters, the ITTF banned numerous substances associated with table tennis paddles in 1995, including solvents with benzene rings, halogenated solvents and N-hexane. This was followed by a blanket ban on speed glue.

The decision to ban the use of speed glue in table tennis rackets was taken in 2004 by the ITTF.

One of the incidents which is said to have set alarm bells ringing is when a Japanese player blacked out during the process of gluing his table tennis racket and spent six days in a coma. Although it wasn’t established this was due to speed glue, it led the ITTF to take action.

The ITTF enforced the ban from September 1, 2007 but then pushed the day to September 1, 2008, allowing players to use it during the 2008 Olympics for the last time.

The biggest reason for its ban was the health reason mentioned in the section above. As discussed, speed glue has been linked with cancer and other health issues and any glue which consisted of volatile organic solvents was deemed illegal.

Apart from consisting of substances which are carcinogens, health hazards related to mutagenicity, reproductive poisoning and target organ issues were also a part of the reason for the ban.

There is one other reason why speed glue might have been banned from table tennis.

It’s to do with the need to lower the speed, much like how the table tennis ball size was also increased in 2000. The rationale behind slowing the game down is to increase the rallies and hence bring in the masses to follow the game.

I don't doubt for a second that speed gluing is a health risk, it's no coincidence painters wear protective equipment like FFP3 mask etc.

I have not seen proof that boosters without VOC have any health concerns. It is a double standard that manufacturers can use boosters on their rubbers and ITTF will happily approve them in that state, yet players cannot do the same. Sure, the factory boost might last 2 months but then the rubber changes playing property and that leaves the player with pretty dire choices:

1. Continue to use the rubber with worse performance
2. Buy a fresh new sheet even though the rubber is not worn yet
3. Boost it back to near factory state

I'm sure ITTF and the manufacturers would love everyone to pick the 2nd option and keep up the cash flow, but it's not economical, not ethical either, and certainly not environmentally friendly.

 

[passifid]

Yep as said earlier there is no law they changed the rules for a single case report that couldn't be sure of the reason but was possibly the speed glue

 

[James Z]

Yep as said earlier there is no law they changed the rules for a single case report that couldn't be sure of the reason but was possibly the speed glue

Unfortunately this is TOTALLY incorrect.
Again you need to do your research going back & starting in 1995 and then to 2008 & then to now.

But if you want to spread claims to support your disinformation campaign with claims of single case (which you initially denied) , then there is no point inmy answering such wild claims.

However I agree with you from one perspective though.
I think ITTF itself wishes that everyone would forget why they passed the bans in 1995 & 2008 & noone would (like me especially) keep reminding everyone why ITTF passed the bans.

That way they would have to perform absolutely zero chemical testing of rackets but they can continue harassing the pips players with maximum visual inspection as explained as related to objective of discussion of this thread but posters like Lodro & Stuart refuse to acknowledge despite my repeated explanations

 

[passifid]

Couldn't be sure of the reason = unconfirmed
I think I'll stop this is going no where either post your court cases directly or I'll stop replying. But if you do I'll enjoy learning something new. I did look them up which is how I found out about the single report that didn't confirm the reason just suspected

 

[James Z]

Couldn't be sure of the reason = unconfirmed
I think I'll stop this is going no where either post your court cases directly or I'll stop replying. But if you do I'll enjoy learning something new. I did look them up which is how I found out about the single report that didn't confirm the reason just suspected

You are wrong about the incident being unconfirmed.

Othere than that I have to prove anyone one anything. It is good enough for me as to the EXACT PRIMARY reason as to ITTf banned speed-glue in 1995 & then in 2008 & now wished we all foregt the whole thing.

I would be very disappointed if you stop respondng me because posters like you, Stuart, Lodro help me make the TT world aware of the depths of corruption in ITTF.

 

[lodro]

Why don’t you just summarise it right here for us all? If you already have this knowledge, you could very easily explain it here for us in literally a few sentences. That would save us a lot of time and effort and would mean we don’t have to keep going back and forth like this. If you know what this primary reason is…we’ll then just tell us what it is! Why are you making this so unnecessarily complicated???

he likes making it complicated, spiked with half-truth and doubtful statements because this keeps the thread going and some people
might think he really knows more 😁

 

[James Z]

he likes making it complicated, spiked with half-truth and doubtful statements because this keeps the thread going and some people
might think he really knows more 😁

It is NOT complicateed & I am NOT at all making it complicated.

The PRIMARY reason for speed-glue ban & booster ban is well known for players who have been around for a while. This is not some big secret except that players who are newcomers to the sport have been brainwashed by booster extremists who know tehtruth into thinking that boosting is perfectly acceptable & even normal day today behavior in tabletennis
But the crazy thing is that you just do not want to answer it & continue to be in denial.because ifyouanswr it honsetly the truth will be exposed and those who truly donot knoow why it is illegal will also understand & obviously you & Stuart do not want that.

As I said before ITTF itself wishes that this whole issue will go away & players will forget about about it and continue their fake minimal booster testng charade but continue to harass pips players with intense visual inspection of rackets.

If you think I do not know more about it, you could always easily ignore me.
.
.
.

PS :- How hard is it to Google
table tennis Speed glue 1995
or table tennis Boosters 2008

 

[lodro]

It is NOT complicateed & I am NOT at all making it complicated.

The PRIMARY reason for speed-glue ban & booster ban is well known for players who have been around for a while. This is not some big secret except that players who are newcomers to the sport have been brainwashed by booster extremists who know tehtruth into thinking that boosting is perfectly acceptable & even normal day today behavior in tabletennis
But the crazy thing is that you just do not want to answer it & continue to be in denial.because ifyouanswr it honsetly the truth will be exposed and those who truly donot knoow why it is illegal will also understand & obviously you & Stuart do not want that.

As I said before ITTF itself wishes that this whole issue will go away & players will forget about about it and continue their fake minimal booster testng charade but continue to harass pips players with intense visual inspection of rackets.

If you think I do not know more about it, you could always easily ignore me.
.
.
.

PS :- How hard is it to Google
table tennis Speed glue 1995
or table tennis Boosters 2008

most of us are long past the google stage.
Speed glue has rightly been banned for health reasons and nobody uses it anymore because it has to be done shortly before the match and can therefore be detected. FINISHED
Non voc boosters have also been banned but because they can not be detected they are widely used by "whoever" wants to use them and "finger " to the ITTF.
Moral : Never make something illegal if you can not , or do not want to police it. It is a waste of time.
FINISHED

Pimples long, medium, short, many little pimples , very few big pimples, fat pimples , skinny
pimples, Who cares ! I have never seen anybody being send home in disgrace because of pimples,

also FINISHED as far as i am concerned. If pimples bother you, get a good akne cream , or
stop shooting testosterone 😁

 

[James Z]

most of us are long past the google stage.
Speed glue has rightly been banned for health reasons and nobody uses it anymore because it has to be done shortly before the match and can therefore be detected. FINISHED

No kidding.
So everyone is supposed to take your word for it . .
Even if true ,is it also your claim that ALL players who boost are so honorable that no testing is needed for VOCs ?
If this is the case what EXACTLY is ITTF testing for after 2008 ? non-VOC boosters ? LOL If I take your word that NOBODY speed-glues or boosts illegally, why bother to do any testing at all and waste money on all those testing equipment ?

BTW I love how you end a discussion with a commanding "FINISHED"

Non voc boosters have also been banned but because they can not be detected they are widely used by "whoever" wants to use them and "finger " to the ITTF.

I love the way how how you have so cleverly worded your claim ot make it sound like only speed-gluing is ilelgal (but everyone should take your word that noone is regluing anymore) but boosting is perfectly legal.
Hey at least you are now at least admitting that speed gluing is illegal, finally

Why did the ITTF ban non-VOC boosters now ?
And I should just take ITTF's word (or your word) that noone is using either speed-glues or boosters with VOC ? REALLY ?

Maybe you can clarify to me again as to what EXACTLY that ITTF is testing for after 2008 & why

 

[Gozo Aruna]

Hi everyone !
I recently played against a player with a weird rubber. I encountered this rubber in the Belgian interclub championship.
He was playing with a very old Anti, but with the ITTF logo only. Nothing else on the rubber.
He told me he had this rubber since he bought the blade, back in ye olden days, and nobody ever told him that he couldn't play with it competitively.
My question is the following : Is the rubber still legal ? If not, am I allowed to refuse to play against him with this racket ? What are the consequences for him and his team ? (the last question is more for my fellow Belgians if they happen to stumble on my post)
Thanks in advance to everyone !

My two cents worth:

If the tourney comes with a prize or some position say in a league or something then by all means make a ruckus and complain to the referee on duty.

If it is just a friendly, then just play for fun and make friends, not enemies.

Choose your battlefield. One does not need to fight all battles.