Are you allowed to refuse to play against someone ?

[SenseiJM]

I haven't been able to post for the past few days and oh boy have I missed some things 😂
I'll give a few more pieces of information about what happened when I played said player : yes, I lost, no, I don't care. I'm long past looking to win every match and even think of stopping tournaments next season.
We did end up talking about it together after the match had finished, and he told me that it was last checked over 20 years ago.
I told him it was a strange rubber. Not because it's a shitty rubber, not because it's an anti. I love those rubbers and defend them with all my heart when someone talks badly of them or the players that use them.
The only thing that I wanted to know out of this story was what I COULD do in such a situation. Hypothetically.
But as stated before, rules are rules, and they should all be followed, no matter their origin. If they exist, there's a reason for that, even if the reason isn't logical anymore.
If any other people have their insight on this precise subject, I would gladly read them.

 

[James Z]

No one has been denying that speed-gluing and boosting are illegal.

No One ? REALLY ?

Anyway assuming what you are saying is indeed true, I think you mean to say speed-gluing & boosting is "unathorized" .

However if you continue to insist that speed-gluing and boosting are NOT illegal under common law, let me ask you this

What is the PRIMARY reason ITTF mandated that speed-gluing and boosting are unauthorized ?

When ITTF conducts fake spot tesing of rackets at higher levels, what EXACTLY are they testing or looking for ?

 

[Zwill]

I think ITTF is still looking for a decent camera.

 

[James Z]

no one was talking about speed gluing and boosters until you unnecessarily introduced them into the conversation way back in post #9.

Again 'no one"
Just because "no one" was talking about speed-gluing or boosting does not mean that it is not related to OP's issue of intense visual inspection.of rackets (as compared to zero chemical inspection) at lower levels
I have expalined it many times but as usual you want to dwell on the legality of boosting.
Once you admit that they are illegal, I would however repeat my explanation as to why boosting is related to OPs issue. Otherwise if you want to troll endlessly NOT admitting boosting is illegal under common law, there is no point in trying to expalin it again (as usual)

 

[James Z]

I have never denied that boosting and speed-gluing are illegal under the rules of Table Tennis. However, I’ve seen no evidence that they are illegal under common law. If you can show this evidence, I would be happy to acknowledge that they are also illegal under common law.

I will ask you one last time (5th or 6th time)
What is the PRIMARY reason ITTF mandated that speed-gluing & boosting are unauthorized ?

If you answer this ,it will explain itself as to why they are also "illegal" under common law

 

[James Z]

The primary reason was because of associated health concerns.

Finally we are getting somewhere .
Based on 1995 ITTF directives & explanations ,the PRIMARY reason is not only just the health of the evildoer (quoting Bush) himself or herself but it has a lot more to do with the second hand effects on other players who are not evildoers & as well as spectators.

ITTF passed the rules to protect itself not because it really cares much about the players but MOSTLY because they want to protect themselves from legal liabilities under the common law (as well project a good image of itself to the IOC) and this is why ITTF looks the other way when boosting & speed-gluing is as rampant today as it was in 1995.

"Legal liabilities" is the key phrase here. ITTF does not want to get sued. If a glue cheater or even a non cheater player gets lung cancer and sues the ITTF, they can always claim, "See, we said it was illegal long time ago don't do it.. So this is not our fault . It is the player's fault. We can't test everyone for every match."

So this is how & why speed gluing & boosting illegal under common law & not just only under ITTF rules & regulations.
Now if you ask me for exact statutes on the law in every city, state or country or international law as Lodro DEMANDED, that would be a ridiculous request.

Once you accept this I can explain (again) as to your question is the other thread. as to how it is related to unapproved pips issue

 

[James Z]

None of that is actual evidence that it is illegal under common law; you are doing nothing more than asserting that it is illegal under common law. Do you actually understand what common law is? The reason that I ask is that you are using the term “statutes”…but common law is not based on statutes, it’s based on court cases and the legal precedent an opinion of judges. Just give me one piece of actual evidence that this is contrary to common law; just post a single link to a court case verdict, that’s all I ask.

Ha Ha Nice try

I am not a lawyer. As I clearly pointed out I am not going to explain why & how EXACTLY it is illegal under the law.. I don't need to because when ITTF or its affilates will get sued this would become clear.

Did I say in my posting that ITTF had already been sued ?
And just because ITTF had not been sued yet mean it became legal ?
Is there a statute of limitations for wrongful death ?

All I need to give you is the PRIMARY reason why ITTF unauthorized speed-gluing & boosting. Nothing else

If this explanation is not sufficient for you, I see no point wasting my time on this with you anymore.

 

[James Z]

The primary reason was because of associated health concerns.

Now to get back to OPs question
Ok let us assume for arguments sake that speed-gluing & boosting is only ITTF unauthorized but not illegal under common law.

Since you admit (after being forced after LONG evasion) that the PRIMARY reason for that is health, do you agree that chemical inspection of rackets at all levels of the sport has a higher priority than visual inspection of rackets ?

 

[James Z]

Ok, so you refuse to explain why and how it is illegal under common law, and clearly you are not well-versed in how the law actually works…and yet you expect myself and others to just accept that it is illegal under common law based pure on your say so?!?! Ha Ha, nice try yourself!! 🤣

No I am ONLY asking you to accept the reason as to why to why ITTF mandated speed-gluing / boosting as unauthorized.
Which you have finally & also the reason why.. And that is all I need for others to undestand the REAL reason as to why ITTF did what it did.
So as far as I am concerned you have indirectly admitted as to why it is illegal under common law. That is all I needed.
You got caught & now trying to wiggle out of it . LOL

 

[James Z]

I have never denied that speed-glue and boosting were banned for health reasons. I am 100% opposed to them being used in Table Tennis for that reason. I have no idea why you keep trying to misrepresent me as someone that supports gluing or boosting!

No, I don’t think chemical inspection should have a higher priority than visual inspection. I think that both forms of testing should take place at regulated events. It’s unhelpful to think of them in terms of one needing to be prioritised over the other; they are two different types of test to uncover two different types of cheating, and in that context both are equally important.

This thread was opened to ask a question about using unauthorised racket coverings, something which would be policed via visual inspection. Because this thread was about unauthorised racket coverings, there was no need for you to introduce speed-gluing and boosting into the discussion (you were the first person to mention these in this discussion in post #9, and as a result you completely side-tracked the whole thread).

Ok let us assume again your false premise that chemical inspection and visual inspection have equal priority is indeed correct.
Are they currently equally enforced at all levels of the sport ?



.

 

[James Z]

You’re not only asking that, though! You’re also asking me to accept that speed glue and boosting are also illegal under common law.

The point I’m making is that the ITTF ban in itself does not demonstrate that they are illegal under common law, even if we accept that the ITTF ban was due to health concerns…and I’m happy to accept that that was the primary reason for the ban by the ITTF.

You seem to be treating ITTF rules and common law as if they are one and the same, but clearly that isn’t the case. I’m 100% in agreement with you that speed glue and boosting were banned by ITTF due to associated health concerns, that has never been the issue that I’ve been challenging you on. What I’m challenging you on is your claim that they are also illegal under common law, and not just illegal under the rules of Table Tennis.

NO you are saying that ITTF rules & common law are the same. I never even remotely implied that.
Al I said was that ITTF banned speed glues & boosters because they are health hazards and therefore using them is violation of laws.at many levels. I never said for example that hiding the ball during serve is illegal under common laws. That is sheer nonsense

Which laws apply to health code violations? It varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.& even a lawyer cannot provide even some of the different laws because they vary from jurisdiction to jurisdiction.

Let us take for example a restaurant violating health code. Do I have to really know what exact law the restaurant is violating ? No that is my lawyer's job.
It is childish to demand that I provide exact laws , previous cases and all that nonsense.

Let me give you another example. You went into a store without wearing a mask in 2020 (during height of corona pandemic) .
In one jurisdiction (even within same country) you may be arrested & jailed. In another jurisdiction you may be fined a few bucks. In another jurisdiction you may be asked to just leave the store. It is childish to ask me to provide exact laws for each situation.

There are cases everyday where a local city may not prosecute a case but state will. There are cases where a state may not prosecute but the central (federal) government of that country will.

Same here. If I complain to local city that I am subjected to second hand fumes from boosters used by players at the local community or rec center, there may or may not be any prosecutions. Or the city may prosecute the club renting the community center space. Additionally the player may file a class action suit against USATT. Demanding that I provide exact laws is childish.

This why I recommend that if you have suffered healthwise due to ITTF's reckless negligence, you should sue the IOC and ITTF because that is where the money is. and IOC had been warned since 2000 to expel table tennis from Olympics but they seem to think this rampant use of boosters is a joke.

 

[passifid]

Mate. When I was 15 a shop I worked in wouldn't let me carry glass because they were worried if I got injured they would be liable and insurance wouldn't cover it.

But it doesn't mean it's illegal for a 15 year old to carry glass...

You're either a troll or dont have the required knowledge or capacity to take responsibility for the words you are typing

 

[James Z]

Mate. When I was 15 a shop I worked in wouldn't let me carry glass because they were worried if I got injured they would be liable and insurance wouldn't cover it.

But it doesn't mean it's illegal for a 15 year old to carry glass...

You're either a troll or dont have the required knowledge or capacity to take responsibility for the words you are typing

So if health codes are violated by use of VOC filled speed-glues & boosters, are you saying there should be no consequences ? Then why is ITTF wasting its effort spot testing for it at higher levels ?

 

[lodro]

So if health codes are violated by use of VOC filled speed-glues & boosters, are you saying there should be no consequences ? Then why is ITTF wasting its effort spot testing for it at higher levels ?

Mistake number 1
You are putting Voc- speed- glue still into the same basket with Boosters which are voc-free

Mistake number 2 Voc free boosters have not been banned because they violate health codes

and YES ITTF 's effort of testing is a waste of time because Voc free boosters can be applied days before the tournament
and can not be detected with the sniffer. The thickness test is also futile because one simply starts with a thinner sponge
that after boosting will swell to the proper thickness but has the desired qualities

 

[James Z]

Mistake number 1
You are putting Voc- speed- glue still into the same basket with Boosters which are voc-free

Mistake number 2 Voc free boosters have not been banned because they violate health codes

Even if you assume this is true (it definitely is NOT per Rule 2.4.7), ITTF is not conducting chemical inspection at higher levels JUST ONLY for VOC Free boosters.

They test for BOTH
1. If a rubber exceeds maximum thickness due to expansion due ONLY to VOC free speed glues or boosters, it is still unapproved. (There is no way to tell at this point whether the expansion is due VOVful or VOC-free content but not releveant because teh rubber is already ITTF unapproved and or illegal under common laws)
2. If a rubber fails racket controls tests using chromatograph like tools due to speed glues with VOC or boosters with VOC m it is not only unapproved under ITTF rules but is also illegal 8nder common laws & may be subject to civil as well as criminal penalties. .

Again I repeat, you want everyone to assume that NOBODY is using illegal speed glues or boosters that contain VOC. Am I supposed to take your word for it ?
And again, I repeat ITTF is not conducting racket control tests for just VOC Free speed glues or boosters .That is the biggest nonsense I have heard.
But yes ITTF wants everyone to forget about the health issues of speed glues or boosters with VOC but want everyone to believe that testing for performance ONLY & not health & therefore testing with thickness gauges is sufficient ,even though they set up test labs at high level events to conduct testing using chromatographs or similar tools which test ONLT for speed glues or boosters with VOC. The testing using thickness gauges is primarily for VOC free speed glues or boosters , which are also unapproved
So if a racket already fails thickness gauge test , there is no need additional testing for speed glues or boosters with VOC
Conversely if a racket fails chromatograph tests for speed glues or boosters with VOC, there is no need for thickness gauge test for VOC free speed glues or boosters
But of course ITTF wants everyone to think that ONLY thickness gauge tests are needed to catch both VOC Free & VOCful rubbers.

Also BTW there is almost no testing even with thickness gauges at lower levels let alone testing for VOCful speed glues or boosters
It is as if the health of lower level players is insignificant compared to a pro
Bit I urge you to reply with your crazy claim that ITTF had approved the use of VOC free speed glues or boosters
We can go in circles again & again & you & Stuart are only helping my cause to raise awareness of ITTF corruption & fraud.

 

[James Z]

No, they aren’t.

Thank you very much

Now, Ihave already explained in another thread clearly with examples as to why speed gluing or boosting are illegal under common law

1. So if you want to continue to make total fool of yourself still claiming that Speed gluing or boosting is not illegal even though you admitted that the ITTF ban is due to health concerns (which have the highest priority under any common laws of any nation or legal jurisdiction)
2. And want to make an even more foolish claim that chemicall inspection does not have a higher priority than visual inspection even though again you do admit that ITTF ban on speed glues or boosters is PRIMARILY due to health reasons.

Please come again & again & help me expose the ITTF corruption

 

[James Z]

I won’t be participating in this thread any further. I’ve said everything I have to say on the subject, and it’s just becoming too tedious having to keep on correcting your misrepresentations of what I’ve said. Whilst this sort of dishonest treatment is to be expected when dealing with a troll, there comes a point where I have to draw a line under a particular exchange and then re-energise for the next one. I’m confident most readers of this thread will be of the opinion that I’ve made more sense that you have, and that’ll do for me. Battle won, but our war will rage on, I’m sure of that! The only thing I’m not sure on, is what forum username you’ll come up with next!

Thanks for not answering the questions & going in cricles and making blanket accusations.
But I agree with you on one thing though.

I totally agree with you on how ridiculous your claims are when you say
1. Health hazard can NEVER be a violation of common law.(simply because noone has sued the IOC yet)
2. Even though you agree speed gluing & boosting are health hazards you continue to insist that chemical inspection does not have a higher priority than visual inspection

But that is OK I will let other readers make up their mind.
But I am disappointed that you will no longer participate in the thread and help me make public aware of ITTF corruption.

 

[lodro]

Thanks for not answering the questions & going in cricles and making blanket accusations.
But I agree with you on one thing though.

I totally agree with you on how ridiculous your claims are when you say
1. Health hazard can NEVER be a violation of common law.(simply because noone has sued the IOC yet)
2. Even though you agree speed gluing & boosting are health hazards you continue to insist that chemical inspection does not have a higher priority than visual inspection

But that is OK I will let other readers make up their mind.
But I am disappointed that you will no longer participate in the thread and help me make public aware of ITTF corruption.

[h2]Common law[/h2]In law, common law is the body of law created by judges and similar quasi-judicial tribunals by virtue of being stated in written opinions. The defining characteristic of common law is that it arises as precedent. Common law courts look to the past decisions of courts to synthesize the legal principles of past cases. Wikipedia

See, that is where your confusion comes from : If there were never any court cases then there can also be NO precedence and therefore there can be NO CASE in common law

SO ! common , don't be a pussy, create a precedent by suing ITTF

 

[James Z]

[h2]SO ! common , don't be a pussy, create a precedent by suing ITTF[/h2]

Very nice. Your using sexist language (p---y) further explains your thinking

Obviously you don't even underestand what a precedence means.or how a preedence is set in the first place
Anyway we are still making lot of progress because thank you for at least admitting that a precedent can indeed be set.

BTW as I have stated many times before, if I were to sue I would first seek criminal indictments for ITTF Officials since 1995 & then sue the IOC with a class action suit for civil damages because that is where the money is

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

Very interesting seeing trolls trolling trolls. But it makes me wonder why anyone would waste time bothering with all this inane banter.