Beginner Penhold Setup Recommendation?

[sairuiu]

Hello everyone,

I'm coming back to table tennis after a 15-year break and would like some advice on how to improve my setup. I play penhold at beginner-intermediate level and I'm struggling with 1) consistently looping backspin and 2) generating enough spin on serves.

Current setup:
Yasaka Ma Lin Soft Carbon
FH: DHS Skyline 3 Provincial 40° 2.2
BH: Yasaka Rakza 7 Max

Do I have skill issue or equipment issue? 😅
Some extra thoughts:

Skyline 3: Chose this because it's recommended for PH but feels way too hard for me. It's unboosted 40° blue sponge. I get really good loops once in a while, but usually the balls are quite dead and go into the net or off the table often because the throw is so low. I feel like I need a softer sponge for sure but not sure where to go; TG2/TG3/H3, 37/38/39°, blue/orange sponge, neo/regular.

Rakza 7: First time learning RPB and this rubber helped a lot, it seems quite forgiving. Somehow I can generate more spin with this than TG3 which feels backwards to me. Only problem is it's very bouncy so a bit difficult to control sometimes. Considering switching to Rakza Z; also heard Yinhe Moon 12 Blue might be good here.

Ma Lin SC: I heard that all-wood blades are better for beginners but also heard that carbon is better for the new ball, so I chose a soft carbon blade that's meant to feel similar to wood but still has a bit of speed. Not sure if I can tell too much difference between blades but I don't think I really have any issue with this.

 

[Tyce]

Consistency is 9/10 times an issue of training hours.
Your blade is fine, Rakza 7 is fine (you'll get used to it in a few months), the only slight question marks for me are the 40 degree, unboosted, blue sponge.

38 or 39 degree is much more common, and boosting it will also soften the sponge a little bit. Orange sponge is slightly easier especially on lower power and it gives much more feedback (depending on preference that's good or bad).

How do I know?

I started 2 years ago after a 15y break, using Rakza 7 (was way too bouncy then, but feels like easy mode now). I have also tested several different Hurricane 3 Neo variants and found the orange sponge way easier to handle.

Here's a tip: if Rakza 7 feels hard to control, make sure you are active on the ball. This is a habit that takes time to form. But when you are active on the ball, always give it something, you will find Rakza 7 gets easier very quickly.
If you play passive, no movement on contact, Rakza 7 is hard to control.

This is different from older rubber like Sriver.

 

[sairuiu]

Thanks for the input! Sounds like we have the same idea about the FH rubber. I may have gotten a bit carried away 😅

Will probably replace it with 37-38 degree neo orange sponge, just tossing up between Skyline and Hurricane. Hurricane seems more popular these days from what I've read even for penhold.

My old rubber was Tackifire Special and I was playing with the 38mm ball so everything definitely feels a bit different. Hard to tell if my spin issues are because of being rusty or because of the new ball (or maybe I just have bad memory of how spinny I used to be). Appreciate the advice though, will definitely keep practicing!

 

[tt-clips]

Yeah that 40 degree blue sponge might be too much for you right now, train with the orange sponge for a few months and then you could change over if you feel like it

 

[Archosaurus]

The performance differences between the sponge hardnesses is honestly not that high. Chances are you're also not getting what you ordered if it's not a National version. Your 40 might be a 39 and so on.

If you can't spin the ball with 40, I don't really see how you'd spin the ball with 38. It wouldn't hurt to get the easiest version, though. Just know that it has a relatively large spread, mostly because it's not important until elite level. It's about as large as ESN rubbers, which are considered consistent. They claim +-2deg on the scale they use.

I'm also back in the sport and found it very hard to spin the ball consistently for over a month. It's only working even a little bit recently. Just keep using the same setup for a few months and it will sort itself out if you self-coach effectively. Low racket speed is the main problem. It's better to swing softly but engage the legs and waist instead of trying to swing hard with the arm.

 

[sairuiu]

My issue sounds similar to what you're describing. It's not that I can't spin the ball at all, it's that I can't spin it the way I'd like to consistently. I'm just not really sure whether a softer sponge will actually help me improve or just help get the ball on the table in the short term without any real skill development.

Very good tip about proper technique though. Most of my training partners are a lot lower level than me so I find it difficult to stay committed to good form and find myself getting lazy with arm-only + no-waist/legs. Will make a mental note to stay focused on this in my upcoming sessions...

 

[Archosaurus]

My issue sounds similar to what you're describing. It's not that I can't spin the ball at all, it's that I can't spin it the way I'd like to consistently. I'm just not really sure whether a softer sponge will actually help me improve or just help get the ball on the table in the short term without any real skill development.

Very good tip about proper technique though. Most of my training partners are a lot lower level than me so I find it difficult to stay committed to good form and find myself getting lazy with arm-only + no-waist/legs. Will make a mental note to stay focused on this in my upcoming sessions...

One issue I have is that I don't trust the backspin to be heavy enough when it's coming from relatively low level people, and I don't want to hit it too hard either, so it ends up in a thin contact that usually nets. Even if you're going for a slow pace, high arc shot, you need to engage the legs and waist at least.

It's not the equipment; I was powerlooping backspin with 3 years old H3 in the first weeks in drills. The equipment can definitely do it if it's not super old and the sponge isn't starting to crack. So I wouldn't go changing equipment. The only thing I might do is switch to a slower all-wood blade that's as flexible as possible just to make the feeling more obvious, but if you've played before it's probably not necessary.

You also say your break was 15 years, and your account is made in May. I don't want to assume, but it sounds like you haven't been playing for very long after the break.

I took a break half as long as yours and it still took me a month to even get real backspin on my serves. I still can't loop backspin in an ideal way. I reckon it just takes time, maybe half a year.

 

[sairuiu]

I've been back for about a year now actually but not in the greatest environment. No real coaching and only low level players; most of their balls are pretty dead and when they are spinny it's not intentional. Height, speed, placement all over the place as well, so development hasn't been the fastest...

It didn't take me too long to regain a feel for the game but there are a lot of variables making me feel like I'm not playing as well as I could - new setup, new ball, new opponents, long break. Absolutely open to the idea of improving my technique (that's the main goal either way) but just wanted to get a sanity check on my equipment choice as well 🙂

 

[b3N]

Yeah it sounds a decent set-up. Probably the 40 is too hard - these sponges are built to be boosted which softens them by a couple degrees.
My favourite Chinese rubber Globe 999 is great for forehand. You could maybe get it in 38 degrees?
With the plastic ball, more and more players are using Hurricane on the backhand side. On other people's bats, the Hurricane 3 in 37 hardness is really good for RPB when I tried it - not too fast and very spinny.
The rest is probably a skill issue, but using softer sponge would definitely help spin the ball!

 

[Lula]

How old are the rubbers?
The blade is so little carbon so not that fast. The blade is slower than extra offensive if I understood ttgearlab correct that do analysis.
Will definitely be easier to loop backspin and get spin on serves with a tacky rubber like china rubber or a hybrid.
A rubber with high arc will also help against backspin.
Regarding opening backspin I think it will be safer if you go low in the legs so you are already under the ball then push up from the ground. Also brushing with forearm will create a spin and arc.
Regarding serves I believe in do movement before and try to stop when you hit the ball, many good players hit themselves in the belly. Use different grip, relax, thin contact then pinch the racket. Hitting close to the body. Some players like to move weight from right to left leg. Higher toss can also help but easier with sidespin. If you do backspin and move the the racket at the same pace at a low toss you will get lower spin.

Good luck.

 

[sairuiu]

Yeah it sounds a decent set-up. Probably the 40 is too hard - these sponges are built to be boosted which softens them by a couple degrees.
My favourite Chinese rubber Globe 999 is great for forehand. You could maybe get it in 38 degrees?
With the plastic ball, more and more players are using Hurricane on the backhand side. On other people's bats, the Hurricane 3 in 37 hardness is really good for RPB when I tried it - not too fast and very spinny.
The rest is probably a skill issue, but using softer sponge would definitely help spin the ball!

Thanks for the recommendation and advice! I actually just bought a bottle of Haifu Sea Moon earlier 😂. I don't expect it to magically solve my problems but I do want to understand what the difference feels like. I stayed away from booster for a while because it seemed like a lot of effort/maintenance but my curiosity got the better of me.

Very interesting to hear about H3 for RPB as well. My setup is already quite heavy for me so I feel like two sheets of tacky rubbers would break my wrist! I am very interested to see the differences between tensor and tacky for RPB though.

How old are the rubbers?
The blade is so little carbon so not that fast. The blade is slower than extra offensive if I understood ttgearlab correct that do analysis.
Will definitely be easier to loop backspin and get spin on serves with a tacky rubber like china rubber or a hybrid.
A rubber with high arc will also help against backspin.
Regarding opening backspin I think it will be safer if you go low in the legs so you are already under the ball then push up from the ground. Also brushing with forearm will create a spin and arc.
Regarding serves I believe in do movement before and try to stop when you hit the ball, many good players hit themselves in the belly. Use different grip, relax, thin contact then pinch the racket. Hitting close to the body. Some players like to move weight from right to left leg. Higher toss can also help but easier with sidespin. If you do backspin and move the the racket at the same pace at a low toss you will get lower spin.

Good luck.

The rubbers (and blade) are only about a year old -- I bought them all together right when I started playing again. Also solid advice, thanks for answering my technique concerns. Going to write this down to practice in my next training session.