Beginner: transition to BH pips or anti

[Nakira]

Hi all,
I started playing table tennis last year, following my kid who started 7 years ago.
I'm 45, and I'm not talented -not a big deal, pleasure comes first.

Anyway, I have a good FH for a beginner (can perfom top spin, and even start on long backspin sometimes), and I'm not able to perform BH top spin. I don't think I will be able to do BH top spins without a very long training, and.... well, life is short, and I can only train twice a week.
Also, I see my kid, who is now able to perform quality BH top spins, but after many years (with youth ability to learn) and much more training sessions per week.

Anyway, now I would like my BH to support my FH, and help me get good balls to attack.
So I'm thinking about switching to pips or anti, but I dont know which one.

Currently with my BH, I can perfom good pushes, sometimes chopping, good smashes, and angle placement -all related to my level, of course-

I haven't train blocking yet, but I feel confident it should not be an issue for me, when I will start training this.

My blade is a Nittaku Violin, and I love it very much. I don't want to change it.

Would you have any advice about this BH rubber change? Which type?

Many thanks!

 

[Windkanal]

do yourself a favor here:
been there done that.

pips are a niche thing and you need a reason or playstyle for it. if you re still developing, they might even hold you back learning certain things.

what i would do if i were you:

keep your blade exactly as it is. but then buy a cheap 10$ blade from ali, with a cheap fh rubber and then put a cheap pimple rubber on this one so you end up spending 30$ on a ''cheap pimple test setup''
That way you can have some fun and explore if you might like pips...

but you re not messing anything up yet. the change from inverted to pips should be something you carefully think about and not just ''change because you feel like it''

have a super cheap pip test setup and try it. and then come back later in like a month or 2.

 

[suds79]

So I have a lot of experience in this topic and in testing things. For context and a brief summary. So I play penhold and I use the same side when I attack & block / punch with my inverted. That means there's another side of the paddle I never use. I've tried inverted on there for attacking (called an RPB) and many types of pips & anti (for defensive play).

So lets take what you said.

"Currently with my BH, I can perform good pushes, sometimes chopping, good smashes, and angle placement -all related to my level, of course"

So if you want to retain any sort of aggressive element to your backhand at all, talking about the smashing part here, then you need short pips. Short pips is all about playing a seed game rather than spin based game. I find placement and painting the corners with short pips very easy. It plays I suppose somewhat similar to inverted so the transition will be easier for you. And you can still chop with it on occasion. This might be the easiest & best transition for you. It will force some mistakes out of your opponents but nothing like changing the pace of play like Long Pips or Anti will do. But if you want some sort of easy, good attack yet? Short pips. You also have to play more tactical with short pips. You're about placement, tactics and waiting for the ball if it ever gets X height. If that spot or higher, you can smash it. If it's low, just put it in play. You're not going to soft loop, spin the ball on.

729 802 is an inexpensive dip your toes in the water short pips that's pretty classic in how it plays. You can get that in aliexpress for I'm guessing 15 bucks. Having said all that, I once bought a sheet from Ali of Meteor 845 in a nice looking blue rubber for like 5 bucks. It plays just like 802 as far as I'm concerned so there's an even easier entry way.

So Long Pips & Anti are defensive rubbers that change the pace of play and are largely not great at attacking. Sure you can try it and maybe get one in every now & then, but it's low %. It's best to play defensively with these. So that whole smashing with the BH thing is gone. Meaning if it's a high ball, step around and play FH anyways. High backahands in general for many people are not great shots. While I feel like I could write a small book here on the differences between Long Pips & Anti, I'll keep it short in almost hesitating to say here they play same-ish. Here's what you need to know when playing these rubbers.

I like to think of it as there are rules with these rubbers. The type of stroke you do depends on what the opponent does.
- Opponent topspins a ball at you and you're close to the table? Chop-block and return backspin to them.
- Opponent topspins a ball at you and you're far off the table? Full on chop returning backspin.
- Opponent pushes sending you a backspin ball and you're close to the table? This is your chance to attack. Bump or swipe the ball at them sending them a light, weird topspin.
- Opponent pushes sending you a backspin ball and you're far off the table? I'd push back with your inverted keeping it backspin at them or step around and play a loop vs that backspin with your FH. You could try a chop with the long pips here but the ball won't reverse as well and IMO it's a harder shot.

Long pips. Whew where to start. Only a million of them. Try something cheap. See what you like. I really, really like this Dawei 388D1 on .6 sponge I got. Easy to play. Feels like it can do a bit of everything. Like $15 bucks.

I also recently tried Butterfly super anti on 2.0 sponge. Let me just say if a spin killing anti like this just feels easy to play and put the ball on the table. It doesn't really reverse spin much but the killing of speed & change of pace of play is what gets people.

Here's a pretty skilled shakehander who plays with anti on the backhand with a style you could emulate. You could also plays this exact style with Long Pips too.

 

[Nakira]

Many thanks for your advice!

My playing style is similar to the red t-shirt guy in the video. In beginner mode, of course... and I greatly need to improve my footwork 😂

With the kid at home, already playing table tennis, I can test for free two setup:
- one défensive blade (large) Thibar Stratus Power defense with VS401 and Joola CWX
- One P.Chila off (balsa) with Vega pro and Dawei 388D-1.

He also has an anti in spare: Yasaka anti power.

The kid says the anti will be easier for me, but he is only 12 (😂). I don't even know if this anti has a reversal effect.

Because I want to attack, I assume I go with a P.Chila 2 months testing?

 

[sebi]

Antis in General hav very little to none reversing effect of you want to reverse spin you need long pips.

But my two cents.

Dont change to pips or anti and just train backhand. Everybody is capable of learning it no matter the age or "talent" if there even exist a thing like talent.

Great video on YouTube from pech pong on backhand and how to.
I bet you will get it if you are not to intimidated by it.

 

[suds79]

Many thanks for your advice!

My playing style is similar to the red t-shirt guy in the video. In beginner mode, of course... and I greatly need to improve my footwork 😂

With the kid at home, already playing table tennis, I can test for free two setup:
- one défensive blade (large) Thibar Stratus Power defense with VS401 and Joola CWX
- One P.Chila off (balsa) with Vega pro and Dawei 388D-1.

He also has an anti in spare: Yasaka anti power.

The kid says the anti will be easier for me, but he is only 12 (😂). I don't even know if this anti has a reversal effect.

Because I want to attack, I assume I go with a P.Chila 2 months testing?

It's been my experience that anti's with their thicker sponge soak up the spin or pace and slow the game down. They don't reverse as much making them easier to play but also IMO in some instances less dangerous as far as generating errors from the opponent. But if he has an extra sheet of anti, power you could glue it on a spare racket and see what you think. But you won't be able to attack well at all with it. That's not what it's designed to do. With that you just want to be steady on the BH, keep it on play, change the pace, look for your FH when you get an opportunity.

I do tend to agree with people here who have said not to switch based on the idea that you're pretty new. That much I agree with. There are no shortcuts. Right now you just need to learn feel & how to play.

You could always post video of your play and ask for feedback.

 

[Nakira]

@sebi : for sure, when you train enough, you can do many things.
My problem is, I have limited time for training, and very low wrist flexibility.

I guess, it is always the same debate: do we need to fix our weakness, or do we need to improve our qualities?

One year earlier, I asked here what would be my beginner setup, and because of my age, some already recommended pips. I took the inverted rubber so I would not 'miss' something. Now, I start to rethink about it, and I have already so much to improve (placement, footwork, FH top spin and smashes, pushes, chops, anticipation, tactic...), that maybe it is a good idea to abandon the bad of myself.

Who know, in 2 months, I'll return back to inverted rubber because my pips skill will be so much worst!

 

[sebi]

@sebi : for sure, when you train enough, you can do many things.
My problem is, I have limited time for training, and very low wrist flexibility.

I guess, it is always the same debate: do we need to fix our weakness, or do we need to improve our qualities?

One year earlier, I asked here what would be my beginner setup, and because of my age, some already recommended pips. I took the inverted rubber so I would not 'miss' something. Now, I start to rethink about it, and I have already so much to improve (placement, footwork, FH top spin and smashes, pushes, chops, anticipation, tactic...), that maybe it is a good idea to abandon the bad of myself.

Who know, in 2 months, I'll return back to inverted rubber because my pips skill will be so much worst!

Nah pips for beginners are not good idea in my opinion.

I think most Club lvl players only train two times a week or less.
The question is how good you use those two times just match play and you will not improve at all.
If you get 2 hours total of coaching you might save a year of just doing matches or having fun playing.

If you want to improve there a lot of good players here who could give you feedback if you upload videos of your training.

Pips and anti will just get you that far, experienced players not even good players can expose the weakness of those and then it will not do anything for your development.

If you get the basics down for backhand you will learn it in no time

 

[andymagata]

Do not think looping is the only way to play backand. Relax and guide the ball over, you will be able to return almost everything, just train deep placement, it will give you loads of time to prepare for your big forehand. Inverted rubber are superior for these types of placement shots.

 

[Azku]

Just try them and have fun.

I think exploring all the options is part of the fun.

You're not planning to be a pro player anyway.

I'd recommend getting a spinny SP like 802-40. Easier to transition from inverted rubber.

 

[Nakira]

Just try them and have fun.

I think exploring all the options is part of the fun.

You're not planning to be a pro player anyway.

I'd recommend getting a spinny SP like 802-40. Easier to transition from inverted rubber.

So I tried with my kid test blade, and played against a low level kid. It was a different feeling, enjoyable.

Meanwhile, I'm starting to do BH banana flick on service receive. It works ~20-30% of the time (better than 0%, last summer). No BH top spin, or it is rare, and I assume with very low spin. Still the flick gives me hope. So I may switch to pips when I will lost all vision of BH improvement 😉

The next months I will focus on ball anticipation, footwork and keeping my back straight.

 

[Azku]

So I tried with my kid test blade, and played against a low level kid. It was a different feeling, enjoyable.

Meanwhile, I'm starting to do BH banana flick on service receive. It works ~20-30% of the time (better than 0%, last summer). No BH top spin, or it is rare, and I assume with very low spin. Still the flick gives me hope. So I may switch to pips when I will lost all vision of BH improvement 😉

The next months I will focus on ball anticipation, footwork and keeping my back straight.

Sounds like SP could work for you.