Cheapest but decent first defence setup

[CyNyC]

Hello everyone,

I'm looking for a cheap defensive setup to have fun in my club.
I am a low-intermediate offensive player both sides, but sometimes I enjoy a session in complete defence-mode.
After finding out that chopping from far away is really diffcult for me with my setup (currently 3+2 carbon blade + Acuda S1 and Vega Pro), I'd like to invest in a decent new combo to practice and improve a bit.

Additional info:
- I don't want anything too "professional" as I will remain an offensive player and I need money for my standard equipment
- I'm thinking about inverted rubbers both sides as I want to chop, but also perform some offensive shots (push/loops) during sessions
- I want a complete different combo as I prefer to completely separate this experiment from my standard style (like a different discipline, but useful to gain experience/feeling)

Disclaimer: I don't know anything about defensive blades/rubbers/style and i have no real defenders in my club (just pimples out close-table) to ask to.

Feel free to suggest or give any info.
Hear you soon

 

[mocker88]

Why not go for a Haitian - AW-089 blade. All wood in 5 ply and fairly slow.
729 - Cross General is a cheap, grippy and not too fast rubber. Perfect for control and loop.
A more light weight bouncy alternative is 729 - Aurora MAX.

Giant Dragon - Submarine is a really nice def rubber. Tacky with a dampening sponge and not that spin sensitive. Works really good for chopping as well.

 

[tzifos]

From Aliexpress you can get a Yinhe 980 defensive blade, For backhand a 388D (1mm) long pips out, or something like DHS 874 or 388C or 563 medium pips rubber that you can also use for attack beside chopping and a DHS PF4 for FH. It is difficult to find a 1mm~1.4mm inverted chinese rubber for BH chop.

 

[ZFT]

It has to be Donic Defplay Senso, especially as it can loop as well as most other 5 ply blades.

It has a very high trajectory and extremely spinny both in backspin and topspin.

If you get one below 82g it’s a very decent allround setup and more nimble close to the table compared to other defensive blades.

Other Pros: Typically can be found discounted to €30 and easy to resell. Can absorb and control powerful shots. Used by many professionals and ex-pros.

Other Cons: thin handle but longer than usual (102mm vs 100mm). Gets head heavy with double inverted due to hollow Senso cavity. If you get used to chopping with an unusual technique it becomes difficult to adjust to other defensive blades.

 

[CyNyC]

Thank you in the meantime for suggestions.

Honestly , I'm not used to chinese or any tacky rubber, so I prefer to stay on European rubbers.
Is there any budget friendly option? (Donic Liga for example? Or are they really for beginners?)

And regarding playing style, maybe it's useful to add that thing I find most difficult in defensive chops (due to poor technique I guess) is adding spin without going long and off the table.
Try to explain: if I chop with "medium force" (=low spin) I can more or less adjust and control trajectory (sometimes too high, but I understand why, so that's ok); when I want to chop like "a real chop" (=high spin), ball goes very long and I don't feel I can control it, seems going at random lenght.

Hope that material could help me a little bit to enjoy the style.

Edit (for blade):
could some allround classic (Applegreen, Waldner allplay, Stiga AR) be a solution?
Is there a real big difference from a defensive blade?

 

[Tyce]

Defensive blades ae usually larger, which increases flexibility so it has a large range of power. Appelgren and Waldner blades actually sport a smaller headsize than the regular 157x150 so they're less fit for chopping.

Rubber wise you could consider some high control rubbers, with little to no tensor effect. Liga is a beginner rubber but don't let that stop you. A clubmate uses Gewo Mega Flex Control as a chop/counter rubber on both sides. You could take a thinner sponge to gain more chop control.

 

[ZFT]

OK you got me invested…

If you chop double inverted, you first will need to get the best inverted or LP blocker at your club to explain how they are able to redirect force away from in front of the table i.e. so they don’t block balls directly out.

They will explain in their terms a concept called “braking effect”, simply put, as soon as they touch downward a heavily spun topspin they try to hold (absorb?) the ball as long as possible with their body and on their racket while following thru off to the side (without actively adding sidespin for inverted) or even back toward their body if they happen to be using LP/anti operating close to the table.

Using medium force is actually a good start but knowing how to redirect this force to the side is what keeps the ball from flying out.

The medium force ensures the quality of imparting backspin mixed in with sidespin - though sidespin is NOT the goal, it’s more the byproduct of taking speed off (braking) the incoming topspin by following thru off to the side.

As long as there’s a backspin axis, it pushes against the air and slows the ball down.

For righthander backhand, the path is similar to drawing out a Nike “swoosh” or from the bottom end of a hockey stick to the handle (🏑). It starts from left of your left ear to 15-20cm away from your right knee-right thigh area.

It’s not directly back to front! It’s more: swing up hands high, to downward ever so slightly in front (good ball impact) then straight off to the side (good friction), it happens in sequence but almost instantaneously.

The faster the loop the more sudden and shorter the follow thru ends from your right hip. Advanced tip: can chop left outside to bottom left half of the ball, quick body twist matching the sudden-ness of the incoming loop is mandatory, otherwise it’ll end up to the next table on your right.

The slower the incoming loop the more the follow thru ends away from your right knee. Advanced tip: can chop inside the right bottom half of the ball to slow the ball down even more. There’s more sidespin as a byproduct of the longer follow thru.

The body supports and leads the stroke throughout all types of chops you can swing into.

For forehand it’s more of a “7” path from right of your right ear to your inner left thigh. There’s more room to manoeuvre your swing on this side so that’s why the follow thru can end inside the frame of your body.

 

[pong99]

My cheap modern defender setup to goof around with:

Nittaku Endless def blade
Dawei 388D1 LP (many other comparable cheap chinese LP will do the same)
Palio Blitz - old generation tensor that has a very good feeling for FH chopping, $30 from ttnpp.com, Palio Macro Era plays similar and is a bit cheaper (could play double inverted chopping with these)

 

[mamedium]

welcome to the beginner's forum! you've come to the right place

 

[CyNyC]

Thank you @ZFT and @Tyce for the explanation and others for suggestions.
I take a look around and then will check some discounts/used stuff to start with.
Have a nice day

 

[CyNyC]

Talking about Donic DefPlay, I've found 2 different types:

- DefPlay Senso V3 5ply 85gr
- DefPlay Classic Senso 6ply (?) 70gr

Same price, same availability; but what are differences?
Which one could suit my need more?

 

[piligrim]

I wouldn't recommend Defplay. I know its very popular but I found it too bouncy and hard to chop with it

 

[tzifos]

I wouldn't recommend Defplay. I know its very popular but I found it too bouncy and hard to chop with it

I second that. It's not for beginners. I have many def blades and Defplay is the one that I don't like at all!

 

[CyNyC]

I wouldn't recommend Defplay. I know its very popular but I found it too bouncy and hard to chop with it

By "too bouncy" you mean it has some offensive potential (=you can perform some powerful topspin too) or you mean it's diffcult to control chopping shots?

 

[piligrim]

By "too bouncy" you mean it has some offensive potential (=you can perform some powerful topspin too) or you mean it's diffcult to control chopping shots?

difficult to control chopping. I tried many def blades but with Defplay harder to chop then any other blade

 

[Ultravisitor]

Talking about Donic DefPlay, I've found 2 different types:

- DefPlay Senso V3 5ply 85gr
- DefPlay Classic Senso 6ply (?) 70gr

Same price, same availability; but what are differences?
Which one could suit my need more?

Classic has Balsa core. Senso v3 is the recommended one.

 

[vanjr]

Balsa blades do NOT chop well in my experience. Not true, off the table chopping.

 

[CyNyC]

Regarding rubbers, I'm thinking to glue the 2 MarkV used I got (1.8 and 2.0 thickness, not so worn out) just to try and stay low cost.
As they are no tensor and with predictable behaviour, I hope they could be right to start to feel defensive stroke.

For blade, I'm looking around for something around 80-90gr as I'm used to play that weight and didn't like any lighter blade I tried in the past.

 

[CyNyC]

Deal done.
Now I have Donic DefPlay + 2 MarkV for my defence setup.

Tried first time yesterday and it's too soon too judge, but blade is very very slow, which is ok, but I were not ready to push every drive also in warming up
And you can definitely feel the bigger head size while playing.

Generally, I found the setup very predictable and this is what I was looking for.
I've been able to perform some good full swing chops with a decent trajectory management (apart from tons of error ).

Big pro: with my old technique (long swing movement) I could FH loop quite qood with a lot of spin/arc, making attack really satisfactory (also sound wise).
Speed is not comparable to my offence setup, but that's what I expected.

I'll go this way for a while to train a bit, and then I'll take 2 cheap soft rubber to see what changes

 

[ZFT]

Good choice on the Defplay.

Not everyone feels the same way or has the same preferences, but there is a reason the Defplay Senso V3 has been used by so many professionals and former pros.

As I mentioned before, its spin generation is genuinely exceptional.

You can compare it to how people see Hurricane 3. Its spin generation is among the best, but it requires a certain technique to reach its full potential. Defplay is the same in that regard, but the barrier to entry is much lower.

For rubber matching, you want something that, based on your ability, can allow the ball to sink into the sponge so you can make full use of the blades incredible flex when looping or chopping.

I feel Mark V is abit too stiff both in sponge and topsheet. Abit too rigid in structure to bring out the spinning capabilities of Defplay.

I would think Rakza 7 or Rakza 7 Soft would be more suitable among many other better “Next Options”, as the topsheet is abit more supple, the sponges abit more flexible, all which help with maximising spin generation.

If I haven’t made it clear enough already, Defplay Senso should be used with the goal of controlling the ball through spin, spin, spin.