Daily Table Tennis Chit Chat

[Archosaurus]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi

Maybe it sucks, but Australian Division 1 and State League players can't return it (most of the time at all), so I'm really curious to see how it will be when it doesn't suck! I'm coaching some mid-division players how to serve pendulum once in a while. Maybe the Australian level is just really low, I dunno. You don't find better amateurs though, anything past that is pro territory.

Played like hell today. Took players to 9-11 and 12-14 who usually convincingly beat me and completely out-rally me. Wish I'd been able to film it, but no proofs so I guess it didn't happen LOL.

Back is very tight today and it forced me to be lower with my legs, move them more and wouldn't allow me to reach for balls almost at all, which had a hugely positive effect on my play.

Moon Speed 53 EURO on the backhand also clicked immediately and I had so much confidence to just go for it, so I actually had a bit of a backhand too. Somehow it's faster, spinnier and softer feeling than the other Moon versions. It's not quite as performant as the top-tier rubbers but it might just be the low-cost king.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi

Maybe it sucks, but Australian Division 1 and State League players can't return it (most of the time at all), so I'm really curious to see how it will be when it doesn't suck! I'm coaching some mid-division players how to serve pendulum once in a while. Maybe the Australian level is just really low, I dunno. You don't find better amateurs though, anything past that is pro territory.

Played like hell today. Took players to 9-11 and 12-14 who usually convincingly beat me and completely out-rally me. Wish I'd been able to film it, but no proofs so I guess it didn't happen LOL.

Back is very tight today and it forced me to be lower with my legs, move them more and wouldn't allow me to reach for balls almost at all, which had a hugely positive effect on my play.

Moon Speed 53 EURO on the backhand also clicked immediately and I had so much confidence to just go for it, so I actually had a bit of a backhand too. Somehow it's faster, spinnier and softer feeling than the other Moon versions. It's not quite as performant as the top-tier rubbers but it might just be the low-cost king.

Yeh sorry to tell you that the level in Australian is very low.

Even your Olympic representative who’s turned into an online coach and was posting on TTD not so long ago, would probably be trashed by many higher level amateur players in Japan.

It’s just not a real sport in Australia. Same that the Japanese Rugby team would lose by 50 point margin to Australia…

 

[J-fed]

Didn't know where else to put this but I didn't think it deserved its own thread. First time gluing LP and I think it turned out pretty well! It's not for me (so not an EJ purchase!), but I'm definitely curious...

View attachment 43098

View attachment 43099

LPs are glorious absurdity. I started with them about 4 years ago. I onlly play once or twice a week. Sometimes not at all so the feeling of exploring their capabilities stays fresh for me. Constantly discovering new techniques and characteristics.
So far I've tried feint long 2 (great allrounder), P3aV (like riding a hysterical bull with no testosterone) and now Yinhe 955 (a LP rubber for MP players).
I think I'll go back to feint because I have a barely used sheet left over and this 955 is boring because I have to attack all the time. If feint still not doing it for me I'd like to give that Dawei a try. Seems a good alternative to the P3aV which I really enjoyed. Trick master also intrigues me due to it's control, low slide and decent effect combination. Seems a very thoughtfully produced rubber. Made in collaboration with Barna no less!

 

[J-fed]

i remember vividly the last training of last year where i beat 2 very strong teammates and almost beat (matchpoint) the strongest one. but this year results have been shit, plagued with a series of injuries (back > knee > back > hip) which put me totally out of courts a total of 2 months in total. I was way below my best at ITTF World Masters (actually a miracle i could play). Without regular training, i lost feeling and confidence, and lost too many matches which affected my confidence even more. 150+ rating points lost in a short amount of time. - even lost to some kids in summer tournaments !

The only joyful result this year was some team results but i played a minor role as a player.

Nevertheless i don't feel pain anymore, and its been 2 weeks now since i came back from holidays in Europe; i want to get in form first and then exceed my best level.

Working more on serves is only one objective. I've also started lessons with a new coach, who's trying to better my fundamentals. Notably he thinks i've got too many unnecessary movements in my technique (== i need to be more stable), and i was taking the ball a bit too early on both sides. Need to relax more as well and use wrist/fingers more at impact [btw seen on YT a short video of a chinese coach explaining that being compact <> being stiff . You become compact by breathing and relaxing]

After having experimented with him the correct technique, i'm becoming aware of it and I feel already some improvement. On BH at least during exercises i can do it correctly. For FH, its a bit more problematic because there is a coordination problem with my footwork with these changes, and it means i have to be more aware of my position not just focusing on hitting the ball at/near the top of the bounce. but when i hit good FH, i can see now my partners having sometimes problems to block some heavy spin FH which was almost never the case before.

what i find difficult now is to find a balance between trying to stay stable, and be able to keep on moving. my brain is wrongly thinking being stable = stay stiff

yday and today i finally felt that i was starting to be able to play at times some good TT after so many sessions where i felt like sh%t so bad i almost wanna quit...

Is it a crisis or an opportunity? I sure you know the answer.

 

[J-fed]

Ordered a DHS B2 and Loki W81 Inner. Too many blades for someone like me, but whatever, it's off season, I can EJ. When I was younger I had no choice due to lack of funds, but now I can justify it. My good deed is that I sell off my old gear to people who need it for very nice prices.

I used the 5X Inner for a good 3 months or so and came to the conclusion that the handle just isn't the best for me and I wouldn't mind a blade with better wood. Sometimes it feels a bit like a mattress spring. Overall not very enthusiastic about Sanwei blades and rubbers which is a shame although they're probably the most cost-performant ones out there.

I wouldn't normally have changed so soon, but I treated the handle with silicon oil and polyurethane which was a huge mistake in hindsight. I've tried to scratch some texture into it, but nothing beats the surface feel of wood. Thing also keeps flying out of my hand. If someone knows how to strip any sealant and restore a natural wood texture, do tell.

I do like it on the bottom corners of the handle, so that there's less friction when serving some serves, but it's a huge no for me on the handle itself. Same goes for sanding the surface of the handle itself; only the corners!

Fextra is a real cheapy as far as I know. Can't expect it to feel great. The echo I have is just fantastic handle wise. Best I've ever had. I hear the really premium stuff is great too but I don't need carbon so IDK.

Not much vibration or feel in the blade, but that is good because it gives stability and encourages me to hit with confidence rather than trying to finesse everything, which I tend to do.

 

[Archosaurus]

Yeh sorry to tell you that the level in Australian is very low.

Even your Olympic representative who’s turned into an online coach and was posting on TTD not so long ago, would probably be trashed by many higher level amateur players in Japan.

It’s just not a real sport in Australia. Same that the Japanese Rugby team would lose by 50 point margin to Australia…

Hm. So you reckon State League players are around 1400 USATT (which was my estimated highest level by forums)? They have rating central points around 1600-1900. The average is about 1000-1050.

EDIT: Wait, you think amateur players in Japan would trash someone who had a highest world ranking of 61 and generally peaked around 2800+ level? Are they that good or was that a joke post?

Fextra is a real cheapy as far as I know. Can't expect it to feel great. The echo I have is just fantastic handle wise. Best I've ever had. I hear the really premium stuff is great too but I don't need carbon so IDK.

Not much vibration or feel in the blade, but that is good because it gives stability and encourages me to hit with confidence rather than trying to finesse everything, which I tend to do.

Yeah, it was about 35AUD. I'm surprised just the fiber material in it doesn't make up all of that.

 

[JustANoob]

EDIT: Wait, you think amateur players in Japan would trash someone who had a highest world ranking of 61 and generally peaked around 2800+ level? Are they that good or was that a joke post?

I was bit baffled by that one too, probably a joke, would believe if Japan had that many "pro" level amateurs then they should a lot more actual pro's in the top 100.

 

[Archosaurus]

I was bit baffled by that one too, probably a joke, would believe if Japan had that many "pro" level amateurs then they should a lot more actual pro's in the top 100.

The claim is that RC is 200 lower than USATT, but it seems more like 400 at least in the typical ranks. A few times 1800 USATT players have come to Victoria and been 3-0:d by 1100-1200 RC players. So the State players I'm talking about are probably on average 2000-2200 USATT or so. Of course matchups matter a lot so it's hard to tell sometimes. How it compares to other countries I don't know, but I don't think the best amateur players here, some of them who have played at National level, are actually slightly worse than the average US club player.

I'm about 50/50 with players around 900-950 RC, although I can lose by a narrow margin to people who are about 1100. That'd make sense if my level is something like 1300-1400 USATT.

Sometimes the 1100 players play in Division 2 (1300) and even win a few matches, so I think they haven't hit their true level yet, though. People who play solidly in Division 1 (1400) can still struggle with my serves and will have a failure rate of about 50%. It doesn't mean I can beat them (Maybe if I'm really on fire I can get 6 points) but I'm just talking serve receive level here.

Granted the serves in that video have about 20% of the spin of my heaviest serves (not sure any of the backspin ones even rolled back) although I know enough to know that heavy spin isn't everything and it's more effective to mix in well disguised light spin than just keep giving people high friction to work with.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Hm. So you reckon State League players are around 1400 USATT (which was my estimated highest level by forums)? They have rating central points around 1600-1900. The average is about 1000-1050.

EDIT: Wait, you think amateur players in Japan would trash someone who had a highest world ranking of 61 and generally peaked around 2800+ level? Are they that good or was that a joke post?



Yeah, it was about 35AUD. I'm surprised just the fiber material in it doesn't make up all of that.

only half a joke. my team mate is an ex Olympian for a country where TT is not very popular, and he does lose to high level amateurs, but not even the top ones. ofc he's well off his peak level but the message is that the level here is just totally different. (same in China / Korea and to a lesser extent Germany / France)

Yes world ranking give us a few jokes. if you're n1 in Oceania, just with Continental points you'll have a top 100 WR.
no kidding but at recent world cups; there were players representing New Caledonia ! I'm sure our senior members could beat them. check Maylis Giret... but i don't blame her. Actually it would be fun to emigrate one day in some exotic country just to become a 60yr olympian even if it means losing 3x 0 or 1-11 in QR1

But its ok who cares about ranking ? if you can beat all the players who are on the other side of your table, you're doing well

If you have a chance to go to Japan, just go and play some (P4) tournament and then tell us how many people failed to receive your pendulum serve and how high their rating were.

 

[Archosaurus]

only half a joke. my team mate is an ex Olympian for a country where TT is not very popular, and he does lose to high level amateurs, but not even the top ones. ofc he's well off his peak level but the message is that the level here is just totally different. (same in China / Korea and to a lesser extent Germany / France)

Yes world ranking give us a few jokes. if you're n1 in Oceania, just with Continental points you'll have a top 100 WR.
no kidding but at recent world cups; there were players representing New Caledonia ! I'm sure our senior members could beat them. check Maylis Giret... but i don't blame her. Actually it would be fun to emigrate one day in some exotic country just to become a 60yr olympian even if it means losing 3x 0 or 1-11 in QR1

But its ok who cares about ranking ? if you can beat all the players who are on the other side of your table, you're doing well

If you have a chance to go to Japan, just go and play some (P4) tournament and then tell us how many people failed to receive your pendulum serve and how high their rating were.

I mean, the guy we're talking about regularly beat 2800+ players. I feel like you'd be hard pressed to find an amateur anywhere who can do that.

I doubt I'll be playing a TT tourney in Japan any time soon, but I'll make sure to if I do. I know the average level in Japan is something like 1800, so I doubt they'd struggle.

Do you think these players are better or worse than average level in Japan?

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

I mean, the guy we're talking about regularly beat 2800+ players. I feel like you'd be hard pressed to find an amateur anywhere who can do that.

I doubt I'll be playing a TT tourney in Japan any time soon, but I'll make sure to if I do. I know the average level in Japan is something like 1800, so I doubt they'd struggle.

Do you think these players are better or worse than average level in Japan?

i don't know how to measure "average" because participation is very high here.
even in the lower divisions you'll see people making highlight shots like this.

Also can't compare, there is no regular (= weekly or 2/3 times a month during the season) championship here. Team events are semestrial or annual here (but many open tournaments everywhere so you can play all year).

The better amateur players don't even participate in the same kind of tournaments than regular players. only big opens, or they are students and would play only in uni league and play national tournaments etc...

you can see many amateur matches from Japan on YT.
the most popular Youtuber Takukichi is a better player than I; but his team plays in the same division than our team ! which is 2nd lowest in that federation (STTA which is amateurish compared to the real JTTA; in JTTA we play about the same division as well) thats to tell you the level. Some of my teammates would easily beat him.

https://www.youtube.com/@Takukichi

Youtuber Yuji's team is a top national team for STTA, but nothing close at JTTA level. His dream for years was to only qualify for the national singles champs (around 300+ entries) which he did last year after a 10y+ hiatus, only to be knocked out in R1. He's only a very good amateur with many stronger than him.

https://www.youtube.com/@Yujikun222

Youtuber Tokkun is the top of amateur Youtubers (won the national Youtuber competition, and All-Japan "shakaijin" championships). Not belonging to any pro team, but hes a coach. call it semi pro or whatever. but not pro

https://www.youtube.com/@%E3%82%B5%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A7%E3%82%AF%E3%83%88

===

But it’s the same everywhere. Looking at TTD team , Dan’s dead is already a good level, but then Dan better and Frog even higher too. But they’re far from being pros

Ps I don’t want to badmouth HMH. Tbh never saw a single of his pro match. He was the best for many years in his continent, played by the rules and totally deserved to be where he was.

I was just stating the obvious that the overall level is not the same everywhere

 

[Archosaurus]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi

Well, in Australia, players who play in those kind of tournaments are National players. They're not really considered amateurs, although there is no semi-pro distinction in an official sense. They're not allowed to play in the amateur leagues, too high rating, but of course they will play in opens with higher ceilings for rating.

FWIW maybe 10-20% of the time will an ex-National (have not played an active one yet, probably will not for a long time ) player make a mistake against my serve. Maybe under 5% of the time will it be an outright point for me. These kind of players usually play Division 2 - State depending on their age and how often they still train. So I guess not really the same thing. I do find them a little sharper on serve receive than players who have plateaud at that level and never been higher, though.

It kinda sounds like State league is around USATT 1800-2000, but then 2200-2300 players from the US come over and can't get more than a couple points per set off them, so it's hard to say about the real play level unless you take a lot of players from both countries and have them play in eachother's tournaments for a few months at least.

Maybe the average player in Japan really is 2400-2500 or whatever, but I doubt it.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi

Well, in Australia, players who play in those kind of tournaments are National players. They're not really considered amateurs, although there is no semi-pro distinction in an official sense. They're not allowed to play in the amateur leagues, too high rating, but of course they will play in opens with higher ceilings for rating.

FWIW maybe 10-20% of the time will an ex-National (have not played an active one yet, probably will not for a long time ) player make a mistake against my serve. Maybe under 5% of the time will it be an outright point for me. These kind of players usually play Division 2 - State depending on their age and how often they still train. So I guess not really the same thing. I do find them a little sharper on serve receive than players who have plateaud at that level and never been higher, though.

It kinda sounds like State league is around USATT 1800-2000, but then 2200-2300 players from the US come over and can't get more than a couple points per set off them, so it's hard to say about the real play level unless you take a lot of players from both countries and have them play in eachother's tournaments for a few months at least.

Maybe the average player in Japan really is 2400-2500 or whatever, but I doubt it.

Of course not . It’s just there are more players and more depth

 

[jonol]

Lots of interesting opinions here, heh.

The top Australian players in the last few years are typically competing at a 2400-2600 USATT level. Finn Luu is in Bundesliga 1, and a few other players have been playing regularly in some of other professional leagues.

I have seen some 2000+ rated USATT players get smoked by players who are around 1700-1800 (in our ratingscentral system)

Heming Hu also has videos of him easily beating players who are 2000+ TTR in Europe from a few years ago.

Somehow, I don't think the average amateur in Japan is 2400+ USATT or would beat our players who play professionally on the international circuit.

I agree the pool of very high rated Australian players is shallow, and domestic competition is not going to be as robust as in Japan by a longshot, but that does not mean there are no strong players at all.

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Lots of interesting opinions here, heh.

The top Australian players in the last few years are typically competing at a 2400-2600 USATT level. Finn Luu is in Bundesliga 1, and a few other players have been playing regularly in some of other professional leagues.

I have seen some 2000+ rated USATT players get smoked by players who are around 1700-1800 (in our ratingscentral system)

Heming Hu also has videos of him easily beating players who are 2000+ TTR in Europe from a few years ago.

Somehow, I don't think the average amateur in Japan is 2400+ USATT or would beat our players who play professionally on the international circuit.

I agree the pool of very high rated Australian players is shallow, and domestic competition is not going to be as robust as in Japan by a longshot, but that does not mean there are no strong players at all.

Not average amateurs . But there are plenty of amateurs in this rating range

 

[jk1980]

@Takkyu_wa_inochi
Maybe the average player in Japan really is 2400-2500 or whatever, but I doubt it.

For somebody who japs around about technical and scientific terms when we talk about grip and spin generation of rubbers you have a profound misunderstanding of what "average" means.

if a rating scale is from 1000 to 2000 rating points, the average is still NOT 1500 but rather depending on the actual distribution of rating points on all players. i guess you simply skipped that class when the teacher taught it

In germany the average player has around 1300 TTR iirc. The players you show in links and videos are surely not "the average" player of any country.

 

[kindof99]

i don't know how to measure "average" because participation is very high here.
even in the lower divisions you'll see people making highlight shots like this.

Also can't compare, there is no regular (= weekly or 2/3 times a month during the season) championship here. Team events are semestrial or annual here (but many open tournaments everywhere so you can play all year).

The better amateur players don't even participate in the same kind of tournaments than regular players. only big opens, or they are students and would play only in uni league and play national tournaments etc...

you can see many amateur matches from Japan on YT.
the most popular Youtuber Takukichi is a better player than I; but his team plays in the same division than our team ! which is 2nd lowest in that federation (STTA which is amateurish compared to the real JTTA; in JTTA we play about the same division as well) thats to tell you the level. Some of my teammates would easily beat him.

https://www.youtube.com/@Takukichi

Youtuber Yuji's team is a top national team for STTA, but nothing close at JTTA level. His dream for years was to only qualify for the national singles champs (around 300+ entries) which he did last year after a 10y+ hiatus, only to be knocked out in R1. He's only a very good amateur with many stronger than him.

https://www.youtube.com/@Yujikun222

Youtuber Tokkun is the top of amateur Youtubers (won the national Youtuber competition, and All-Japan "shakaijin" championships). Not belonging to any pro team, but hes a coach. call it semi pro or whatever. but not pro

https://www.youtube.com/@%E3%82%B5%E3%83%B3%E3%82%AF%E3%82%B9%E3%83%97%E3%83%AD%E3%82%B8%E3%82%A7%E3%82%AF%E3%83%88

===

But it’s the same everywhere. Looking at TTD team , Dan’s dead is already a good level, but then Dan better and Frog even higher too. But they’re far from being pros

Ps I don’t want to badmouth HMH. Tbh never saw a single of his pro match. He was the best for many years in his continent, played by the rules and totally deserved to be where he was.

I was just stating the obvious that the overall level is not the same everywhere

Dan and Frog are basically living on table tennis, semi pro at least. I would say average decent USATT players are probably about 1700-1900. USATT 2500+ are pro, and 2300+ usually were trained like pro or the very top amateurs. The medium USATT score of all US players (play once a week or more), is probably USATT 1200-1400

 

[Archosaurus]

Of course not . It’s just there are more players and more depth

I don't understand how that relates to what I was talking about, though.

I'm sure the knowledge and overall play level is more advanced in Japan, but from what I can tell, if you go to a typical club, it's not going to be that different. There will be the not so good players and the better players. Most people who play seriously 3~ times a week will be in that 1600-2000 range like in every country with clubs and players who try to improve.

The only way it would significantly matter is if the average, or probably more accurately median, player in Japan is so good that they're better than the best players in Australia. So when I would talk about the effectiveness of some technique against some of the better (non-pro) players here, it would be compared to some of the worst players in Japan. At least that's what I understood your argument as being.

If you mean that X or Y sucks compared to the highest level of execution, then I think we all suck.

For somebody who japs around about technical and scientific terms when we talk about grip and spin generation of rubbers you have a profound misunderstanding of what "average" means.

if a rating scale is from 1000 to 2000 rating points, the average is still NOT 1500 but rather depending on the actual distribution of rating points on all players. i guess you simply skipped that class when the teacher taught it

In germany the average player has around 1300 TTR iirc. The players you show in links and videos are surely not "the average" player of any country.

You don't need to be so rude.

 

[dingyibvs]

Looks like someone recorded a good amount of the local tournament I played in recently. It captured the first 2.5 sets of my last singles match. Unfortunately it didn't catch the last 2.5 sets which I lost, so not great for analyzing my weaknesses. There's plenty to work on there, but I think the biggest thing I need to work on right now is the forward lean. My back is too straight when playing, and that results in too often a stroke that's too up going and also having to take the ball relatively late.

Here's the link if you're interested, I'm the guy in the middle table wearing a headband. My opponent is an 1800's player.

Oakland Chinatown Pingpong

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The video actually captured more of my 2nd match, but it wasn't a very good angle. This match was against a 1500's clubmate who usually underperforms in tournaments and gets tilted, so it was not as easy as his rating might suggest. I think the lack of a good lean is even more pronounced in this game, probably because I know I'm more consistent than him so I was playing a bit less aggressive.

Oakland Chinatown Pingpong

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

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It actually has a pretty decent angle of the last 2 sets of our doubles match against my clubmates as well! The first 2 sets were recorded as well but was from far away.

Oakland Chinatown Pingpong

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

 

[Takkyu_wa_inochi]

Dan and Frog are basically living on table tennis, semi pro at least. I would say average decent USATT players are probably about 1700-1900. USATT 2500+ are pro, and 2300+ usually were trained like pro or the very top amateurs. The medium USATT score of all US players (play once a week or more), is probably USATT 1200-1400

My understanding of ELO rating system is that the difference of points between 2 players will predict the probability of player A winning / B losing and is the invariant. That is from a country to another , a simple translation would give an accurate description of the level in theory.

But where there is a lot of participation say the bottom 80% it’s true, higher ratings become less relevant and difficult to compare .

FWIW in France, 1400 points is roughly 2000 US from my experience. I can see a French player with 2000 points places him beyond the 1000th rank. Very good amateur but not pro. Would he be rated 2600 in US system ?

Linear map between ratings probably doesn’t work well especially in higher rankings

No matter what , average or median ratings is ofc higher in bigger TT countries but those 2 stats don’t tell enough the difference in level. You have to travel and see it by yourself