GLUE SHEETS...The Good, the Bad (and the Ugly?)

[MOG]

agree glue sheets are awful, they change the characteristics of the rubber or the pimple been used.

basically for beginners

 

[Kopp]

We bought the blade to enjoy the feeling of the surface hitting the ball. Adding a layer will surely reduce its feel to some degrees. Water based glue is so easy to apply, just use it.

 

[Dominikk85]

Aren't glue sheets really only for Ox rubbers? I think for inverted or sponged pips water glue is really better.

I tried glue sheet once and it was a huge pain to remove it from the blade.

 

[lodro]

Aren't glue sheets really only for Ox rubbers? I think for inverted or sponged pips water glue is really better.

I tried glue sheet once and it was a huge pain to remove it from the blade.

Depends on the glue sheet. My problem was never to get it off the blade. I seal my blades so I could simply "wash" the remaining glue
off the blade using a small rag soaked in mineral turps.
The real problem was to get things off the sponge. The glue sheets should never be used unless one uses the rubbers until they
need to be thrown away.
This applies only to the cheap sheets from China, the expensive ones might be more forgiving as the two sides allegedly
have different stick-ability, one side for the rubber the other for the wood.

 

[plunder]

I am happy that I experimented with this product and I expect to always use glue sheets in the future.

The reviews for Stick Fast Cornilleau are not good:

672020 Cornilleau Table Tennis Stick Fast Self Adhesive Sheets / Glue for sale online | eBay UK

Find many great new & used options and get the best deals for 672020 Cornilleau Table Tennis Stick Fast Self Adhesive Sheets / Glue at the best online prices at eBay UK! Free delivery for many products!

www.ebay.co.uk

 

[plunder]

Re "NI-Beläge" (Noppen-innen Beläge, inverted rubbers), we're ending this topic here and now:

In all clarity, if you have an inverted rubber fresh ootb (say Tenergy 05 or Mercury 2 or Friendship 729 FX or similar), then there is no (commercially available) 5cm+ wide adhesive tape or glue sheet or alike which adheres well to the sponge. Not even the strongest tapes such as Gorilla Tape, T-Rex Tape, Duct Tape, etc stick well to the sponge face! Yes, i've tested them all. (((well, there are special 2cm narrow double-sided tapes for construction which do stick well but this is crazy "slimy" stuff, absolutely exceptional/hard to find, and it ruins whatever the tape comes in contact with: your knife blade or scissors, the wood blade, the sponge, your fingers, clothes -- a absolute nightmare of a product and it'd be far beyond consideration for our purposes)))
They all stick well enough to smooth rubber faces, e.g. on sponge-less rubbers (many pips-rubbers come without a sponge-backing) but not on sponge faces.
DOHT BELIEVE ANY WORD WHICH SAYS OTHERWISE. No vendor, no ad, no commercial, no manufacturer, no youtuber, no influencer, no forum poster, anything!

Not all sponges are the same ofc. So you might be lucky and have a fresh ootb sponge which sticks "well enough" to your glue sheet, carpet tape, or etc, I'll give you that np. — Then you're the lucky one and can enjoy, congrats.

But the general rule of thumb is: glue sheets are a no-go with fresh ootb inverted rubbers, basta.

However.

What does work well (but i wouldn't necessarily recommend it):
apply a super-thin layer of your very watery latex-based glue on the sponge,
let it dry,
and now "the sponge" adheres super well to the good quality tapes, carpet tapes, glue sheets, etc, ta-rah! 🎉

Obviously it is the latex-layer which adheres well to the glue sheets, not the actual sponge material.

And what about the wood blade?

It is easy to find glue sheets or double-sided tapes which stick nicely to smooth (sealed or unsealed) blades faces, no problem.

Conclusion:
Imho it makes little sense to employ a 0.025mm thin glue sheet plus a latex-glue layer between a new blade face and a fresh ootb inverted rubber. In special cases, e.g. for quick-testing purposes of a used rubber with a very thin latex-glue layer which one cannot be stripped anymore, it would make sense to employ a glue sheet, instead of adding more and more latex-glue layers.

 

[plunder]

i am now a gluesheet gluefilm convert, since i found the only and best of its kind which is very suitable and acceptable (and basically perfect for our purpose). lemme document with a few pics first.

The glossy white is label paper. The yellow is the foam of my Mercury II cutoffs. Between the adhesive paper and the foam is 1 layer of made-in-Germany gluefilm. By nature, a gluefilm is sticky on either side with the same sticking force (sticking properties). When i try to tear off the paper from the sponge, the solid flexible gluefilm cannot decide in this photo which material (the paper or the sponge 🤷‍♂️) to let go off first! Importantly, when it has "decided" to let go of a side, it does a clean neat separation of the, say paper, and the glueside. The separation is not messy. The gluefilm keeps/compacts to itself (to a gooey ball). This also means that you can peel if off neatly from where it had decided to stick more to:

The gluefilm is dry, sticky, flat/even, and will minimally penetrate/"flow" around the pores of the foam/sponge (within the first 72h) for max possible sticking force. So i had applied the gluefilm on the sponge a week ago. I believe one can see in the following close-up how the gluefilm formed mikro droplets to flow into the pores. Yet the separation is clean, neat, and easy enough when needed:

The following picture doesn't show anything new. I've tried to ink the stretched (like a chewing gum!) part for better visibility:

Another try to make parts visible. Two blots of ink upon the gluefilm (which rests on the sponge), one blot on the sponge, and one smear on the stretched film suspended in air:

From a few centimeters away and shot at an angle, from the light reflection you can clearly see where on the sponge there's still some gluefilm left over. And as mentioned, it is super straight-forward to separate the gluefilm from the sponge (i'll detail in the installation instructions below):

Another example shot of what can happen when you try to separate two sides which were held together by the gluefilm. The gooey-ness of the gluefilm, without being nasty!, is actually a key feature of the product, otherwise it wouldn't stick "so well" on our sponges.

On this photo one can see that the film can get curled into gooey balls if you do so during uninstallation:

Wow what a great photo. The gluefilm rather sticks to the label paper (=our blade) but we can see that it also sticks pretty well to the sponge:

I'll continue this thread or post soon, i'm on a run rn. Stay tuned.
In any case, from now on, all my rackets will be installed with this gluefilm, no more latex-based (or other liquid) glues. This method has advantages only, and i'll talk about every aspect. With this, more and more are going to adopt it, and maybe it'll reach a market share of 40% eventually. Latex-based glueing will still have its share because of the catapult effect a.o. aspects, but this made-in-gemani gluefilm is gonna be a "tradition changer" in the pong industry and i'm so glad that it exists. This has NOTHING to do with gluesheets. All(!) gluesheets *uck for inverted rubbers because they do NOT stick well enough on our sponges, see my previous post.

This gluefilm is not a gluesheet.

 

[Wakkibatty]

I've used nittaku glue sheets a lot in the past. For me they've always worked great -- had no problems at all with either ox or inverted rubbers.

Nowadays I use glue on my own personal blades because it works out cheaper, but that said I would happily use glue sheets again should the need arise.

 

[igorponger]

glue sheets are awful, they add a dampening effect to the rubber, whether or not it is noticeable is debatable.
I think it has a dampening effect and would never use on personally

No springy effect at all, unless you have very thick GS. We only use china products famous to be a great adhesive.

This way, please

https://aliexpress.ru/item/1005007542652977.html?spm=a2g2x.orderdetail.0.0.bcaa4aa6bYcYy2&sku_id=12000041225867037&_ga=2.200143398.927989897.1751025894-986027272.1750430329

 

[plunder]

I've seen your post about gluefilms and I'm really interested. What brand are they and where do you buy them? Give me a link please.

brand, company, country: ASLAN brand, Aslan Selbstklebefolien GmbH, Germany
country of manufacture: Germany (original manufacturer)
product model nr (code name): ASLAN MM 05 (aka "Aslan Monstermount")
link (datasheet pdf): https://www.aslanfolien.de/en/node/3723

you could contact them and ask where you can buy it. they prolly doht send out free samples overseas 🤷‍♂️

 

[Arkady]

brand, company, country: ASLAN brand, Aslan Selbstklebefolien GmbH, Germany
country of manufacture: Germany (original manufacturer)
product model nr (code name): ASLAN MM 05 (aka "Aslan Monstermount")
link (datasheet pdf): https://www.aslanfolien.de/en/node/3723

you could contact them and ask where you can buy it. they prolly doht send out free samples overseas 🤷‍♂️

Reading the product description: "The double-sided covered transfer adhesive film with the same monster strong adhesive on both sides ensures a powerful bond between joining partners"

Have you used it?
I'm a bit worried about the "monster strong adhesion". If it's too powerful, then by trying to unglue it from the blade it might take the top ply out or splinter it.

Another question about it: If i understand correctly, it's not a glue sheet but rather a thin layer of glue (i.e film), like the one created when you're using normal water glue?

 

[kase]

Just use TT brand glue sheets. Victas is AUD$3.20 for a two-pack from TT-Japan.

The most important thing is to use heat when removing them, so they don't splinter the blade. I microwave a wheat-pack until it's hot, then place the blade/glue sheet on top of it for 5 mins. Then the glue-sheet peels off smoothly and without damaging the blade.

 

[Tyce]

Not sure if localized heat is going to warp the blade...

 

[Arkady]

Just use TT brand glue sheets. Victas is AUD$3.20 for a two-pack from TT-Japan.

The most important thing is to use heat when removing them, so they don't splinter the blade. I microwave a wheat-pack until it's hot, then place the blade/glue sheet on top of it for 5 mins. Then the glue-sheet peels off smoothly and without damaging the blade.

I have been using TT brand glue sheets for many years now.
The only one that offers adequate adhesion with no problems is Tibhar Duo, that I can't find it anywhere. It's been out of stock for many months now, almost in every tt-store. Maybe it's been discontinued by Tibhar.

I've tried almost all other brands, Victas, Nittaku, Donic etc and I had problem with all of them: The rubber comes off at the edges for some reason.

 

[\_Kairos_/]

..
The only one that offers adequate adhesion with no problems is Tibhar Duo, that I can't find it anywhere. It's been out of stock for many months now, almost in every tt-store. Maybe it's been discontinued by Tibhar.
...

You mean this one:

Tibhar Belagsklebefolie Duo - Badischer Tischtennis-Shop

Voc-freie Klebefolie, 1 Stück. Die schwächer klebende Seite wird auf das Holz geklebt und verhindert das Beschädigen des Holzes beim Entfernenwechsel.

badischer-tischtennis-shop.de

Selbstklebefolie DUO

VOC-freie Belagklebefolie mit zwei unterschiedlich stark haftenden Seiten (verhindert das Beschädigen des Holzes beim Entfernen des Belags). Menge: 1 Stück

smshrs.com

TIBHAR - Selbstklebefolie Duo

Selbstklebefolie Duo

www.tt-shop.lu

"Disclaimer": I don't know these shops, i.e. I have never ordered stuff from them, but they look legit and all of them seem to have these particular glue sheets in stock. So, go ahead and contact them.

 

[plunder]

Have you used it?
I'm a bit worried about the "monster strong adhesion". If it's too powerful, then by trying to unglue it from the blade it might take the top ply out or splinter it.

Another question about it: If i understand correctly, it's not a glue sheet but rather a thin layer of glue (i.e film), like the one created when you're using normal water glue?

@Arkady I have used it (see again the previous photos!) and am going to exclusively use it from this point on. Like you, i have tested all TT brand glue sheets (Donic Nittaku Victas Gewo Tibhar etc AliX etc) and manufacturers' catalog samples (X-Film Germany, Neschen Germany, Aslan Germany); they are easy to work with but do NOT stick well to sponges. For some players, it may be "well", for me, it's not "well enough"! They all stick well to bare rubber and blade, but not to sponges. That's because sponges are porous, so there's little surface where the gluesheet can actually stick to. Liquid glues penetrate into the pores, and that makes all the difference.

Funnily, simple cheap carpet-tape has the best adhesion to sponges (similar to a proper monstermount install!) but there must have been several(!) reasons which i caht remember why i hard discarded it as viable option for our purpose. One reason could have been: carpet-tape is "thick", and with its thickness comes its effect on performance etc. For sheer adhesion to sponges though, carpet-tape remains your no.1 reference. No TT brand glue sheet comes even close to the adhesive power of carpet tape.

No need to worry, "monster strong" is just a marketing term. The glue is gooey hence harmless. Ofc it adheres better to the blade (than to the sponge) but trust me it's easy and straight-forward to remove from it, e.g. by using a Scotch tape to pluck off the residues. There is no way of harming the blade because the glue is so gooey!

A gluesheet is a solid semi-transparent plastic sheet (backing foil), on either side of which the manufacturer has deposited a thin invisible layer (coating) of an adhesive, i.e. some glue. The two glue films doht flow anywhere, so they're not liquids. You have understood correctly, the monstermount does not have a backing foil; the product is just a thin layer of solid glue. For convenient handling and installation purposes, it is sold in sandwiched form, between 2 backing peel-off papers:

gpt likes it too:

ChatGPT - Aslan MM 05 vs TT Glue

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

So what about my white label paper in the photos?

It might be an unnecessary step but it's clever anyway: before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.

Other than that, the installation procedure is straight-forward:

1. have a rectangular monstermount "sheet" ready. obviously, its (WxL) dimension doesn't need to fit exactly the quadratic size of your new ootb rubber (sponge-side!). peel off liner1, then you're ready to install the "sticky sheet" onto the sponge! (sponge first, not blade first!! — doht ask me why just do it)
   the LDPE liner seems to come off first, which is fine.
2. it is easy enough to install the sticky sheet onto the sponge, without trapping air bubbles. once it is installed, i compress the rubber-sheet-assembly under a stack of books. didn't the datasheet say something about 'full adhesive power after 1 week'? oh well
   
3. thx to the thickness of the CCK liner, the rubber becomes flat like a flat sheet (not dished/arched). when you think it's about time to proceed, peel off the liner2. now you have a "sticky sponge" in front of you, congrats! You also realize how thin (and even/regular) the glue film is, absolutely amazing.
   but wait, be very careful when peeling off the liner2 (because you doht want to tear/ruin the glue film). also, peel off only a small area of maybe 1cm length (10mm x 170mm) at first, from the bottom edge.
4. as with latex-based glues, you have 1 attempt only: carefully align the rubber with respect to your blade, before you lower the bottom edge ("touch-down!"), making initial contact with the blade. try your best to not leave a gap between the 2 edges (handle vs. rubber line). hold still, get your roller.
5. you really need a roller (a cylindrical object). now slowly roll the rubber onto the blade, with very little pressure. uncover more and more of the sticky sponge by slowly peeling off liner2, while you're rolling slowly, at the same time. the challenge is to not trap any air bubble! once done, you'll be amazed about the perfectly flat result. now it's time to cut the rubber to size.
6. before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
7. for cutting, i use a 9mm-segmented box cutter (e.g. my STANLEY® Cutter Interlock 9mm).
8. now it's time to install the 2nd rubber and cut to size (go back to step 3.)
9. as a final step, i absolutely recommend applying 10mm edge tape to protect the sponge edges from coming off of the blade edges (thru pong accidents during a rally).

NOTE: Once the installed sponge has been lift off its glue film side (a glue film has 2 sides: one interfacing with the sponge, and the other interfacing with the blade), that glue film side woht stick (anywhere near well enough) anymore to the naked sponge! It takes some force to separate sponge from glue after their initial bonding, which is why we want to keep this nice bonding intact/protected. The use of 10mm edge tape helps with that.

(...)

As a non-EJ, I am not a fan of recycling (=reusing) used rubbers or testing multiple blades and rubbers, but obviously EJ's would profit from this glueing method too, since it's the cleanest, neatest, hassle-free, time-insensitive method, always giving perfect results and resetting blades and rubbers sponges to Like New condition with ease.

Also the most light-weight method.

Typically, the monstermount product is sold by the meter (or in a 25m bulk roll lol) at 123cm width at reasonable pricing. Ofc i know where to buy, in Germany.

 

[Bruschk0v]

Where do you buy in Germany? I have been looking for a better way to glue (or a more convenient way at similar results, really) for a long time. I was about to try out Nittaku glue sheets the next time I need to replace rubbers. But this sounds even better.

However, I have only found 25 Meter rolls for around 100€ so far. That seems a bit excessive Do you have a link where I can buy the foils by the meter? I am in Germany as well.

P.S.: have you tried peeling the glue sheet off the blade again? I would really hate to ruin my blade with this.

 

[Arkady]

You mean this one:

Tibhar Belagsklebefolie Duo - Badischer Tischtennis-Shop

Voc-freie Klebefolie, 1 Stück. Die schwächer klebende Seite wird auf das Holz geklebt und verhindert das Beschädigen des Holzes beim Entfernenwechsel.

badischer-tischtennis-shop.de

Selbstklebefolie DUO

VOC-freie Belagklebefolie mit zwei unterschiedlich stark haftenden Seiten (verhindert das Beschädigen des Holzes beim Entfernen des Belags). Menge: 1 Stück

smshrs.com

TIBHAR - Selbstklebefolie Duo

Selbstklebefolie Duo

www.tt-shop.lu

"Disclaimer": I don't know these shops, i.e. I have never ordered stuff from them, but they look legit and all of them seem to have these particular glue sheets in stock. So, go ahead and contact them.

I'm not very sure that they indeed have it in stock.
Even if they do with shipping costs it's not worth it, unless you order other stuff as well like rubbers.

But thank you very much for the links!

 

[Arkady]

@Arkady I have used it (see again the previous photos!) and am going to exclusively use it from this point on. Like you, i have tested all TT brand glue sheets (Donic Nittaku Victas Gewo Tibhar etc AliX etc) and manufacturers' catalog samples (X-Film Germany, Neschen Germany, Aslan Germany); they are easy to work with but do NOT stick well to sponges. For some players, it may be "well", for me, it's not "well enough"! They all stick well to bare rubber and blade, but not to sponges. That's because sponges are porous, so there's little surface where the gluesheet can actually stick to. Liquid glues penetrate into the pores, and that makes all the difference.

Funnily, simple cheap carpet-tape has the best adhesion to sponges (similar to a proper monstermount install!) but there must have been several(!) reasons which i caht remember why i hard discarded it as viable option for our purpose. One reason could have been: carpet-tape is "thick", and with its thickness comes its effect on performance etc. For sheer adhesion to sponges though, carpet-tape remains your no.1 reference. No TT brand glue sheet comes even close to the adhesive power of carpet tape.

No need to worry, "monster strong" is just a marketing term. The glue is gooey hence harmless. Ofc it adheres better to the blade (than to the sponge) but trust me it's easy and straight-forward to remove from it, e.g. by using a Scotch tape to pluck off the residues. There is no way of harming the blade because the glue is so gooey!

A gluesheet is a solid semi-transparent plastic sheet (backing foil), on either side of which the manufacturer has deposited a thin invisible layer (coating) of an adhesive, i.e. some glue. The two glue films doht flow anywhere, so they're not liquids. You have understood correctly, the monstermount does not have a backing foil; the product is just a thin layer of solid glue. For convenient handling and installation purposes, it is sold in sandwiched form, between 2 backing peel-off papers:

gpt likes it too:

ChatGPT - Aslan MM 05 vs TT Glue

Shared via ChatGPT

chatgpt.com

So what about my white label paper in the photos?

It might be an unnecessary step but it's clever anyway: before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.

Other than that, the installation procedure is straight-forward:

1. have a rectangular monstermount "sheet" ready. obviously, its (WxL) dimension doesn't need to fit exactly the quadratic size of your new ootb rubber (sponge-side!). peel off liner1, then you're ready to install the "sticky sheet" onto the sponge! (sponge first, not blade first!! — doht ask me why just do it)
   the LDPE liner seems to come off first, which is fine.
2. it is easy enough to install the sticky sheet onto the sponge, without trapping air bubbles. once it is installed, i compress the rubber-sheet-assembly under a stack of books. didn't the datasheet say something about 'full adhesive power after 1 week'? oh well
   
3. thx to the thickness of the CCK liner, the rubber becomes flat like a flat sheet (not dished/arched). when you think it's about time to proceed, peel off the liner2. now you have a "sticky sponge" in front of you, congrats! You also realize how thin (and even/regular) the glue film is, absolutely amazing.
   but wait, be very careful when peeling off the liner2 (because you doht want to tear/ruin the glue film). also, peel off only a small area of maybe 1cm length (10mm x 170mm) at first, from the bottom edge.
4. as with latex-based glues, you have 1 attempt only: carefully align the rubber with respect to your blade, before you lower the bottom edge ("touch-down!"), making initial contact with the blade. try your best to not leave a gap between the 2 edges (handle vs. rubber line). hold still, get your roller.
5. you really need a roller (a cylindrical object). now slowly roll the rubber onto the blade, with very little pressure. uncover more and more of the sticky sponge by slowly peeling off liner2, while you're rolling slowly, at the same time. the challenge is to not trap any air bubble! once done, you'll be amazed about the perfectly flat result. now it's time to cut the rubber to size.
6. before i cut the installed rubber to size, i cover the sticky sponge excess with paper (or label paper), so that the cutting process stays clean and non-messy. Otherwise the glue film could wrap around my knife blade, or the tearing of the film could become unclean.
7. for cutting, i use a 9mm-segmented box cutter (e.g. my STANLEY® Cutter Interlock 9mm).
8. now it's time to install the 2nd rubber and cut to size (go back to step 3.)
9. as a final step, i absolutely recommend applying 10mm edge tape to protect the sponge edges from coming off of the blade edges (thru pong accidents during a rally).

NOTE: Once the installed sponge has been lift off its glue film side (a glue film has 2 sides: one interfacing with the sponge, and the other interfacing with the blade), that glue film side woht stick (anywhere near well enough) anymore to the naked sponge! It takes some force to separate sponge from glue after their initial bonding, which is why we want to keep this nice bonding intact/protected. The use of 10mm edge tape helps with that.

(...)

As a non-EJ, I am not a fan of recycling (=reusing) used rubbers or testing multiple blades and rubbers, but obviously EJ's would profit from this glueing method too, since it's the cleanest, neatest, hassle-free, time-insensitive method, always giving perfect results and resetting blades and rubbers sponges to Like New condition with ease.

Also the most light-weight method.

Typically, the monstermount product is sold by the meter (or in a 25m bulk roll lol) at 123cm width at reasonable pricing. Ofc i know where to buy, in Germany.

Interesting.
Next time you do it, maybe record the process in a video, so every step becomes clear. I have 1-2 questions about the procedure but let's not get into details for the time being.

 

[plunder]

However, I have only found 25 Meter rolls for around 100€ so far. That seems a bit excessive Do you have a link where I can buy the foils by the meter? I am in Germany as well.

P.S.: have you tried peeling the glue sheet off the blade again? I would really hate to ruin my blade with this.

Yes i have tried peeling the gluefilm off the blade again, many tests. It's straight-forward, and the photos should give you sufficient imagination about everything. As i said, it is easy and harmless to get the gluefilm off of the blade! (one can use Tesafilm or packaging tape to pluck off the gluefilm from the blade, super easy and harmless)

If you're in Germany, have a try first to contact Aslan Germany directly and ask for a free sample shipment (DIN A4 size, sufficient for 1 full racket, if(!) you manange to center the DIN A5 half perfectly on your new-ootb sponge, otherwise 1 Bogen will serve for 1 rubber only). You could ask for 2 Bögen.

See if you like the gluefilm method!, and let us know.

For an order of 1m or 2m (or anything in between), the go-to-shop is topfolie24.de but you'd have to ask for an individual quote shipped thru email, since their website interface allows for 25m rolls shipments only. They are a seller, and get their inventory directly from the manufacturer (in this case: Aslan Germany).