How to know if I prefer a short or long dwell time?

[tabaradumitru]

• How to know if I prefer a short or long dwell time?
• How to know if I should change my outer carbon(Yinhe PRO-01) for an inner carbon(Yinhe PRO-05) or even all-wood(Nittaku Violin) blade based on the dwell time(I have all these 3 rackets)?

 

[jk1980]

If these are sincere questions or indicates that you probably should not play outer carbon in the first place.

 

[Jslick89]

how do you know if you like a new kind of food? you have to try it.

 

[Tyce]

• How to know if I prefer a short or long dwell time?
• How to know if I should change my outer carbon for an inner carbon or even all-wood blade based on the dwell time?

Can you produce the amount of spin, arc and placement you want, with ease, in match conditions?
If not, is the problem not getting enough spin on the ball? You might benefit from a slower blade.
Is the problem that you can only get all of those things on the ball when you push yourself really hard? You might benefit from a slower blade and/or softer rubber.
Is the problem that you have to choose between spin, power and placement? You might benefit, again, from a slower blade and/or rubber.

A telltale sign of missing dwell is being unable to generate spin at medium power. At low power, the topsheet does most of the work so you don't reach dwell issues, and at high power you can mask bad spin generation using speed and whacking the ball using the right angle.

 

[barusu]

Which one brings more fun to you?
Which one makes you put the ball on the table most often?
If you have a coach, with which blade can you follow his instructions the easiest?

 

[Tyce]

Of course if you prefer to play flat rather than spinny, having a short dwell time can be a good thing. Provided you can control the ball.

 

[tabaradumitru]

Can you produce the amount of spin, arc and placement you want, with ease, in match conditions?
If not, is the problem not getting enough spin on the ball? You might benefit from a slower blade.
Is the problem that you can only get all of those things on the ball when you push yourself really hard? You might benefit from a slower blade and/or softer rubber.
Is the problem that you have to choose between spin, power and placement? You might benefit, again, from a slower blade and/or rubber.

A telltale sign of missing dwell is being unable to generate spin at medium power. At low power, the topsheet does most of the work so you don't reach dwell issues, and at high power you can mask bad spin generation using speed and whacking the ball using the right angle.

Good questions. During matches my arm is a little bit stiff so I miss a lot of balls. My arm swing is long but I'm afraid of brushing the ball because I miss a lot of balls because of this. So I guess I prefer to feel the ball more on the racket than just brushing(short dwell time) it.
Also, I usually play once or twice per week for 3-4 hours per session(a tournament type) so I get tired pretty fast, which makes me be lazy and don't do long moves anymore or attack correctly if this matters.
My backhand flick is also bad, I think because of the same "brushing" that I miss. What should I do?

 

[belllfador]

In short: more dwell gives you easily accessible spin and more control in the short game. But also your rubbers are reacting more to the opponent spin. Because everything in TT has trade offs, in general, a blade with high dwell is slower and flexible or/and mushy, resulting in less control for blocking and hard hitting. There are also personal preferences.

Try Violin.

 

[Tyce]

Good questions. During matches my arm is a little bit stiff so I miss a lot of balls. My arm swing is long but I'm afraid of brushing the ball because I miss a lot of balls because of this. So I guess I prefer to feel the ball more on the racket than just brushing(short dwell time) it.
Also, I usually play once or twice per week for 3-4 hours per session(a tournament type) so I get tired pretty fast, which makes me be lazy and don't do long moves anymore or attack correctly if this matters.
My backhand flick is also bad, I think because of the same "brushing" that I miss. What should I do?

Bear in mind that I'm judging just from text but it sounds like you need to slow down the equipment and learn to unlock fluent movement.
Can you try other people's bats?

If you equate brushing to short dwell, that speaks volumes. Brushing contact in particular is where one will start to notice the ball staying on the rubber while you slingshot it.

Depending on your environment and teaching resources, it may not be in your best interests to be playing Hurricane either. It's OK if you have more people around you using it, preferably experienced players and/or coaches. But without those, you might be better off using a softer rubber to teach you the feeling of grabbing the ball. That could be a Euro rubber like Vega Europe, or something like Yinhe Mercury 2 (soft), any soft rubber will do because it provides an easily accessible sensation when you do it right.

Personally, if you don't have much access to coaching, I would put the carbon in a closet and get a wooden 5ply or thin 7ply. Learn to play freely and fluent, apply spin at will. You will feel a difference in power, but the power you have is much easier to use effectively.

Think more effortless looking play like (old) Waldner, based on feeling and control, rather than fitness based power play from the CNT. Trying to play like WCQ without putting the same hours into the gym is just not realistic. I know I don't have the physique for that. So I gotta play my strengths.

 

[jonol]

Good questions. During matches my arm is a little bit stiff so I miss a lot of balls. My arm swing is long but I'm afraid of brushing the ball because I miss a lot of balls because of this. So I guess I prefer to feel the ball more on the racket than just brushing(short dwell time) it.
Also, I usually play once or twice per week for 3-4 hours per session(a tournament type) so I get tired pretty fast, which makes me be lazy and don't do long moves anymore or attack correctly if this matters.
My backhand flick is also bad, I think because of the same "brushing" that I miss. What should I do?

It sounds like you need a more forgiving setup and (ideally) at least a few sessions of decent coaching. If you're frequently missing the ball, feel stiff, scared to brush and get tired while playing...an outer carbon with 38-40° hurricane isn't really helping you out.

I would try to find a decent coach for a few sessions, but I suspect switching to wood blade with a change to some more usable rubbers would do you wonders as well.

 

[lodro]

The system that works for me is to mount identical rubbers on 2 or even 3 blades.
It then became very easy to sort out which blade was the most comfortable to play with.

 

[jk1980]

how do you know if you like a new kind of food? you have to try it.

if you don't even know the concept of taste or flavour, no then you are just an animal eating something to not be hungry

 

[jk1980]

Good questions. During matches my arm is a little bit stiff so I miss a lot of balls. My arm swing is long but I'm afraid of brushing the ball because I miss a lot of balls because of this. So I guess I prefer to feel the ball more on the racket than just brushing(short dwell time) it.
Also, I usually play once or twice per week for 3-4 hours per session(a tournament type) so I get tired pretty fast, which makes me be lazy and don't do long moves anymore or attack correctly if this matters.
My backhand flick is also bad, I think because of the same "brushing" that I miss. What should I do?

thank you for the honest assessment of your skills which shows that my initial verdict was true.
you probably have no business playing outer (or any) carbon

 

[lodro]

you probably have no business playing outer (or any) carbon

Quite a drastic kind of assessment. Probably justified when it comes to carbon- outers with koto or other hard outer laminates but most definitely not when it comes to some carbon - inners where the carbon does sometimes not much more than increase the hotspot.

 

[tabaradumitru]

Thank you for the advices guys.
I will Try my Nittaku Violin blade again, but with different rubbers: Yasaka Rakza Z for BH and Hurricane 3 Neo Orange Sponge 39deg boosted for FH. It's not as my H3 Prov BS for FH and H8-80 for BH because I don't want to move these rubbers to Violin now but I will do it if I will like the feel of the Violin Combination.

And I will also try the Yinhe PRO-05 + H3 Prov BS for FH and Dignics 09C for BH.
And see which one suits me better.

 

[Tyce]

Pro 05 will definitely have better dwell than Pro 01 even into medium power territory. I found it hard to control on high power compared to Pro 01 though, the power capacity is big thanks to the thick core. Mid distance loop to loop was very pleasant. My main reason for letting go of the Pro 05 was the sensation on hard flat contact. To me it felt like a teeth-rattling vibration and all in all a nasty experience.

Personally, I've been through Pro 01 and 05, came to Innerforce Layer ALC, but I'm moving back to all-wood simply because it's more predictable (than inner, no sudden gear shifts) and easier to control (than Koto outer) and generally gives more detailed/precise feedback. I'm also moving to rubbers that I can engage fully at will.

 

[Jslick89]

if you don't even know the concept of taste or flavour, no then you are just an animal eating something to not be hungry

i mean we aren't talking about Michelin star restaurants here. people can talk about what short and long dwell time means, but table tennis is a sport of feeling. You can only experience that feeling by trying.

i would caution anyone to make a decision too quickly (IE- equipment junkies are often participating in adverse behavior by switching their equipment too often before truly understanding what they are feeling).

That being said, i do believe there is more general advice that could be applied to equipment- such as a new player not using a viscaria + zyre combo when they are still learning how to loop. but a lot of it comes down to personal preference, and honestly, some people prefer things that aren't the "META" because they like the "feeling" of something more.