How to measure blade frequency?

[TensorBackhand]

Mine is 1371, that's a huge difference.

Yeah. I talked frequently in the past about how my Stuor Harimoto is unusually quick and snappy and responsive. Maybe the frequency plays a part in that.

 

[zeio]

Ok I measured the frequency of my Atletico Power, and it comes to 1340. That seems like a nice low frequency, it should be a nice soft flexy blade.

But to be honest, I hate the feeling of the Atletico Power more than all my other blades. It feels way too stiff. So maybe frequency is only useful comparing blades of the same model/maker

As noted before, the 1st membrane mode alone is inadequate to tell the feel. You're feeling the 1st and 2nd bending modes the most (and torsional modes if your shots miss the longitudinal center line).

 

[TensorBackhand]

As noted before, the 1st membrane mode alone is inadequate to tell the feel. You're feeling the 1st and 2nd bending modes the most (and torsional modes if your shots miss the longitudinal center line).

Lol i dont know what you are saying.

All i know is that the frequency isnt enough to tell you the flex and feeling.

My Stuor Harimoto and Sanwei 75 inner are 1440-1450, but feel much better in their flex and springiness

 

[zeio]

Lol i dont know what you are saying.

All i know is that the frequency isnt enough to tell you the flex and feeling.

My Stuor Harimoto and Sanwei 75 inner are 1440-1450, but feel much better in their flex and springiness

Like I said in my first post, you have to understand what you're measuring. Without knowing the principle, the value is as good as useless. As it stands, you're simply using the value for something that it is largely not responsible for.

 

[TensorBackhand]

Like I said in my first post, you have to understand what you're measuring. With knowing the principle, the value is as good as useless. As it is, you're simply using the value for something that it is largely not responsible for.

Right. But explain in simple TT terms, what am i measuring?

Frequency tells me the surface hardness?

 

[zeio]

You're basically measuring the sound of the blade. Rather than hardness, it tells you very roughly the overall stiffness of the blade.

In engineering, stiffness is a measurement for elastic deformation whereas hardness is a measurement for plastic deformation. For table tennis, when we talk about hardness, more often than not we're really talking about stiffness.

 

[sk123]

I have 2 Viscaria 83g and 84g with an ST handle, both have a frequency of 1485 Hz. Is it a miracle or a coincidence?

 

[Robin0910]

I have 2 Viscaria 83g and 84g with an ST handle, both have a frequency of 1485 Hz. Is it a miracle or a coincidence?

It’s just great quality control

 

[TensorBackhand]

I'm pretty new to the frequency testing thing, but in my experience, I find that it actually does tell you quite a lot.

I find that my favorite blades are in the 1400-1450 range. I like that extra bit of snappiness without feeling too bricky.

I also find that you can't really compare frequency across different compositions. The composition/thickness will still play a much bigger role. But frequency seems to be quite useful in predicting blade behavior within the same construction type. For example if you have 2 inner carbon blade with the same core thickness, the higher frequency one will feel snappier and the lower frequency will feel softer.

HL5x structure blades typically measure with a low frequency around 1350, but they feel dense and solid.

So I would say the core thickness and carbon placement is still the biggest predictor of blade behavior, followed by the frequency.

I made the mistake of opening a blade with a low frequency, and I didn't like it. I should've returned it. It turned out to be too soft for my taste, and that was predictable by the frequency.

 

[hipnotic]

 

[Tyce]

Not really, weight difference is made from inconsistencies in wood density. A lighter viscaria will feel more hollow, have less dwell and be a bit slower slower than a heavier one due to having less mass and having less inertia.

The wood is wood though, the overall characteristics will remain the same with minor differences, the main will be feeling. The long v's inner carbon and limba outer will have more dwell than viscaria.

Hey Jan, you're mentioning here that heavier blades would have more dwell, is that correct?
If so, I don't quite understand how that works. I'm just using guesstimates here, is it because a heavier blade flexes more through inertia? If so, doesn't that get counteracted by the material being denser and thus deforming less?

 

[Jan_]

Hey Jan, you're mentioning here that heavier blades would have more dwell, is that correct?
If so, I don't quite understand how that works. I'm just using guesstimates here, is it because a heavier blade flexes more through inertia? If so, doesn't that get counteracted by the material being denser and thus deforming less?

Lighter blades are less dense. A lighter blade will flex and vibrate more and act like a catapult, it will shoot off the ball earlier from its surface due to the vibrations and the lack of mass won't transfer the power efficiently to the ball.

 

[hipnotic]

Lighter blades are less dense. A lighter blade will flex and vibrate more and act like a catapult, it will shoot off the ball earlier from its surface due to the vibrations and the lack of mass won't transfer the power efficiently to the ball.

This is not entirely correct, it depends on the mass distribution within the composition.

For example, two blades with the same weight, the first one has a lighter core and denser outer layers, the second one has lighter outer layers and a denser core. This is why blades of the same weight have different frequencies. All else being equal the first one will be stiffer, bouncier, but it will have less top end. The second one will be the opposite, less bouncy, a bit more flexible, but higher top end speed. There are more variables of course, but this is the basic scenario.

For a lower mass blade you can't really tell how it will behave just judging by the weight, unless you now the cause for the lower weight. Granted, the core is usually the thickest layer in a blade, which corresponds to the biggest weight variation, so it's normally to blame,. Your explanation fits here, I just don't agree with the catapult part.

 

[Jan_]

This is not entirely correct, it depends on the mass distribution within the composition.

For example, two blades with the same weight, the first one has a lighter core and denser outer layers, the second one has lighter outer layers and a denser core. This is why blades of the same weight have different frequencies. All else being equal the first one will be stiffer, bouncier, but it will have less top end. The second one will be the opposite, less bouncy, a bit more flexible, but higher top end speed. There are more variables of course, but this is the basic scenario.

For a lower mass blade you can't really tell how it will behave just judging by the weight, unless you now the cause for the lower weight. Granted, the core is usually the thickest layer in a blade, which corresponds to the biggest weight variation, so it's normally to blame,. Your explanation fits here, I just don't agree with the catapult part.

How about same blade/composition and different weight? That's what I was referring to.

 

[hipnotic]

How about same blade/composition and different weight? That's what I was referring to.

We are always assuming it's the same composition, otherwise the comparison doesn't even make sense. But I've explained that part too.

 

[Jan_]

We are always assuming it's the same composition, otherwise the comparison doesn't even make sense. But I've explained that part too.

Okk, I just read it again, for some reason some parts just didn't register. Makes sense, thanks for the clarification!

 

[Tyce]

Thanks @hipnotic and @Jan_

I'm curious, because I have a 78 gram EU Korbel, with Korbel being a model that can *easily* go over 90g, and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on certain characteristics of the blade by having such a featherweight version of it.

 

[Jan_]

Thanks @hipnotic and @Jan_

I'm curious, because I have a 78 gram EU Korbel, with Korbel being a model that can *easily* go over 90g, and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on certain characteristics of the blade by having such a featherweight version of it.

You could get a heavier one and see if it's any different. It's pretty cheap compared to other high end blades.

 

[hipnotic]

Thanks @hipnotic and @Jan_

I'm curious, because I have a 78 gram EU Korbel, with Korbel being a model that can *easily* go over 90g, and I'm wondering if I'm missing out on certain characteristics of the blade by having such a featherweight version of it.

This is a case where things complicate a bit more, but in summary I would say that you are.

The Korbel has a relatively thick Limba medial ply, the medial doesn't directly impact the longitudinal stiffness of the blade, but it does impact the transversal stiffness ( sweetspot) and hardness. For this reason it also impacts the frequency reading, which is dependent on both the longitudinal and transversal stiffness. So, on your blade we can't exactly be sure which layers are responsible for the lower weight, but for that low weight I would say all of them. If we use the medium density values of Limba and Ayous, the composition alone can easily be more than 70g. With ~20g for those handles you end up with a 90g or more blade, and head heavy, but you kinda need the head heaviness for it to be solid and generate good momentum.

 

[Tyce]

You could get a heavier one and see if it's any different. It's pretty cheap compared to other high end blades.

It's cheap but I'm already drowning in blades so I like to have a little research done before I get another one.
I've been leaning towards getting a Japan version if I do buy one. That would skew the comparison though