Information about DHS Hurricane Long 5/my path to switching to shakehand.

[olive-nguyen]

Hello,
So, with the recent purchase of a DHS Long 5 (cause $45 used for very good condition is too good to miss) I found myself wondering how does Long 5 feel. I am no means a through and through good player, but mostly hobby and I have a passion for it. As a current user of 1 ply hinoki jpen with rpb, I noticed that my shots always have a relatively high arc, on both forehand and backhand. Even using H3 Neo on forehand which seems to be a low throw angle rubber, I make rather high arcs and clear the net easily.

Today, I played with my friend who recently got a new bat. A Timo Boll ALC with H3 Blue Sponge on forehand and Tenergy 05 on backhand. He let me try it too. Being new rubbers it’s rather nice, and I loved the H3, especially when trying it with penhold grip. However, I found that my shots are much flatter, and I can’t make nice arcs away from the table. Many times it just doesn’t clear the net. And when I give a more vertical brush motion like using penhold technique, the ball would just fly out of the table. I found that my stroke could no longer start from my knee level and end across my face, and my stroke had to be much more compact (maybe a good thing?) but I found it hard to place the balls on the table, and in topspin topspin rallies the balance is difficult. Also,I found the carbon to make things rather odd to control. Sometimes it doesn’t activate and gives a dull hollow sound, next stroke it cracks and the ball just flies out of the bat missing the table. Is this just how ALC is? How does this translate to the Long 5.

On the Long 5, how does it feel. Is the blade hard or medium. How does it compare to Miyabi or Timo Boll ALC. Also, I know it may not be the most forgiving for someone starting, but how would it fair.

Oh and Tenergy 05 on the backhand was actually really good. I found that I could loop on my backhand like never before on jpen. I believe my backhand on shakehand is already better than jpen,(except for flicks and serve receive). Somehow, there is no odd carbon activation situation on the backhand. Is this just a matter of forehand technique then?

 

[golden_son]

Singe-ply hinoki is a strange beast. It's very soft, but springy and fast at higher gears. The softness gives dwell, so it's easier to create those big, arcing loops with a long stroke. Paired with H3 I imagine you get deadly topspin, but I don't know how your wrist handles that weight 😅.

Having used both the Long 5 and Viscaria (same structure as TB ALC), I wouldn't classify either as hard blades but they're both harder than your Miyabi. The Long 5 will probably feel closer to a single-ply hinoki in the sense that it plays softer on lower gears and faster at higher gears, while the outer-carbon TB ALC has more immediate speed and less touch—comparatively—in the lower gears. The carbon in both is going to make them feel more solid and less "springy" than hinoki. I've ready many places that it can be difficult for hinoki users to switch to other compositions; it's like a drug 😂. You could always try a shakehand hinoki blade like the Darker Speed 90 if you're wanting to change your grip but keep the same feel/characteristics.

Sometimes it doesn’t activate and gives a dull hollow sound, next stroke it cracks and the ball just flies out of the bat missing the table. Is this just how ALC is?

Correct! "Dull hollow sound" = thinner contact (brush stroke); "crack" = flatter hit, like a drive/powerloop, with the carbon fully engaged. Personally I can't produce enough spin quality to make the ball drop onto the table when fully engaging an outer-carbon blade and will often overshoot, so I generally prefer inner carbon for the extra dwell. Others have better technique and enjoy the pace and "crisp" feeling something like a Viscaria/TB ALC offers. Rubbers of course do factor in as well. Just based on the little bit you've said, my guess is you'd be more comfortable with the Long 5 if you didn't just go with a single-ply hinoki in shakehand grip.

I believe my backhand on shakehand is already better than jpen,(except for flicks and serve receive). Somehow, there is no odd carbon activation situation on the backhand. Is this just a matter of forehand technique then?

It could be the RPB→shakehand BH transition was more natural for you than the FH switch. I feel like there's a more exaggerated difference in the wrist position between shake and penhold on the FH side, so it could take more acclimation to ensure your racket angle is what it should be. Different blade+rubber combinations can require a slight adjustment to this as well. That said, I've also found my backhand is better with outer-ALC blades than other compositions, so who knows. And T05 makes looping on either side effortless.

 

[StreamOfWater]

Hello,
So, with the recent purchase of a DHS Long 5 (cause $45 used for very good condition is too good to miss) I found myself wondering how does Long 5 feel. I am no means a through and through good player, but mostly hobby and I have a passion for it. As a current user of 1 ply hinoki jpen with rpb, I noticed that my shots always have a relatively high arc, on both forehand and backhand. Even using H3 Neo on forehand which seems to be a low throw angle rubber, I make rather high arcs and clear the net easily.

Today, I played with my friend who recently got a new bat. A Timo Boll ALC with H3 Blue Sponge on forehand and Tenergy 05 on backhand. He let me try it too. Being new rubbers it’s rather nice, and I loved the H3, especially when trying it with penhold grip. However, I found that my shots are much flatter, and I can’t make nice arcs away from the table. Many times it just doesn’t clear the net. And when I give a more vertical brush motion like using penhold technique, the ball would just fly out of the table. I found that my stroke could no longer start from my knee level and end across my face, and my stroke had to be much more compact (maybe a good thing?) but I found it hard to place the balls on the table, and in topspin topspin rallies the balance is difficult. Also,I found the carbon to make things rather odd to control. Sometimes it doesn’t activate and gives a dull hollow sound, next stroke it cracks and the ball just flies out of the bat missing the table. Is this just how ALC is? How does this translate to the Long 5.

On the Long 5, how does it feel. Is the blade hard or medium. How does it compare to Miyabi or Timo Boll ALC. Also, I know it may not be the most forgiving for someone starting, but how would it fair.

Oh and Tenergy 05 on the backhand was actually really good. I found that I could loop on my backhand like never before on jpen. I believe my backhand on shakehand is already better than jpen,(except for flicks and serve receive). Somehow, there is no odd carbon activation situation on the backhand. Is this just a matter of forehand technique then?

From the description, it looks like an obvious technical issue. The framework is pretty much always the same, equipment barely plays any role in that

 

[olive-nguyen]

are there any tips then for the forehand technique? Like bending down lower or a wrist snap?

 

[StreamOfWater]

are there any tips then for the forehand technique? Like bending down lower or a wrist snap?

Difficult to give specific advice without seeing your technique, but here’s a set of bullet points I always remind myself of when I need to make adjustments mid-game:

1. Compact stroke
2. Forward stroke
3. Patience
4. Relax/calm — tense just before contact

The key idea is that your stroke should be directed mostly forward. For backspin balls, the necessary lift comes naturally if you relax and let your arm drop a little. Keeping your stroke compact is critical because a shorter motion forces you to really accelerate into the ball, it generates more concentrated and controlled power.

For looping against topspin, you don’t need to drop super low — in fact, doing so often just sends the ball long. My biggest realization was that racket angle adjustments are overrated. Don’t overthink these micro tweaks. What really matters is the direction of force you put into the ball. During acceleration, there isn’t a fixed angle you must hold — all you need is to tense slightly just before contact. That stabilizes the racket and lets the ball sink into the sponge for a solid, consistent shot

 

[olive-nguyen]

Hello from the picture below can you tell me if this is a genuine Long 5, and info about it. Date of manufacture?

 

[olive-nguyen]

Hi I got the bat today, and now feeling it I’m in a dilemma.

Turns out, the red rubber is is forehand and black on backhand. I intend to replace the tin arc for Sanwei target National, but the red rubber is really really hard and tacky. Likely 41, as it’s harder than the one on my current bat which is 40. Would it be way to hard?

Also, I have no idea why he chose this bat. It looks totally wrong. He got it at p3, so it’s from 2019. And since he’s playing such a fast bat and rubbers? Also the colour is reversed.
Also found the top sheet of h3 separating. May need rubber change on backhand too
Sigh

 

[andymagata]

Difficult to give specific advice without seeing your technique, but here’s a set of bullet points I always remind myself of when I need to make adjustments mid-game:

1. Compact stroke
2. Forward stroke
3. Patience
4. Relax/calm — tense just before contact

The key idea is that your stroke should be directed mostly forward. For backspin balls, the necessary lift comes naturally if you relax and let your arm drop a little. Keeping your stroke compact is critical because a shorter motion forces you to really accelerate into the ball, it generates more concentrated and controlled power.

For looping against topspin, you don’t need to drop super low — in fact, doing so often just sends the ball long. My biggest realization was that racket angle adjustments are overrated. Don’t overthink these micro tweaks. What really matters is the direction of force you put into the ball. During acceleration, there isn’t a fixed angle you must hold — all you need is to tense slightly just before contact. That stabilizes the racket and lets the ball sink into the sponge for a solid, consistent shot

Here and there are pieces of advice worth it’s weight in gold! Racket angle not that important! I needed this for my failing backhand. Direction of force, that’s the key point.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

are there any tips then for the forehand technique? Like bending down lower or a wrist snap?

Feel it. Playing with the bat more will help you feel the need to make body/racket adjustments. Time will help you here.

 

[Tyce]

Hi I got the bat today, and now feeling it I’m in a dilemma.

Turns out, the red rubber is is forehand and black on backhand. I intend to replace the tin arc for Sanwei target National, but the red rubber is really really hard and tacky. Likely 41, as it’s harder than the one on my current bat which is 40. Would it be way to hard?

Also, I have no idea why he chose this bat. It looks totally wrong. He got it at p3, so it’s from 2019. And since he’s playing such a fast bat and rubbers? Also the colour is reversed.
Also found the top sheet of h3 separating. May need rubber change on backhand too
Sigh

Don't worry about the FH/BH placement for now. It's a symmetrical blade so it won't make a world of difference. Colour placement is a preference thing, that was born out of minute differences between the compounds of red and black rubbers. Nowadays it matters even less and colour choice is more of a traditional thing.
European players often use red on FH by default. In fact, last week did I confuse someone, he thought I was twiddling, but I just play with black on FH.

Just play with the bat a couple of times, get a feel for it. Don't rush new rubber on it

 

[Tyce]

Hi I got the bat today, and now feeling it I’m in a dilemma.

Turns out, the red rubber is is forehand and black on backhand. I intend to replace the tin arc for Sanwei target National, but the red rubber is really really hard and tacky. Likely 41, as it’s harder than the one on my current bat which is 40. Would it be way to hard?

Also, I have no idea why he chose this bat. It looks totally wrong. He got it at p3, so it’s from 2019. And since he’s playing such a fast bat and rubbers? Also the colour is reversed.
Also found the top sheet of h3 separating. May need rubber change on backhand too
Sigh

As you mentioned in the EJ Purchase thread, the H3 seems a bit weird to you, right? You might be dealing with the 37 degree "Soft version", which is quite different from the regular DHS H3.
The topsheet feels more mushy, and it's just overall a softer, mushier rubber, like it's too soft for the specs of the rubber to work properly.
A couple of people here (including myself) have quite "meh" experience with that one. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell the difference for sure until you look at the stamp on the sponge. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it could make sense that the rubber feels off.

 

[olive-nguyen]

As you mentioned in the EJ Purchase thread, the H3 seems a bit weird to you, right? You might be dealing with the 37 degree "Soft version", which is quite different from the regular DHS H3.
The topsheet feels more mushy, and it's just overall a softer, mushier rubber, like it's too soft for the specs of the rubber to work properly.
A couple of people here (including myself) have quite "meh" experience with that one. Unfortunately you won't be able to tell the difference for sure until you look at the stamp on the sponge. I guess what I'm trying to say is, it could make sense that the rubber feels off.

Hmm not too sure about this, just that it feels odd.

I played with my usual partner for 2 hours today, and my game totally changed.

I feel much safer on the backhand, even looping. I barely had confidence to forehand. Following advice from someone not to care about racket angle adjustments and just swing, every ball goes out. I really have to keep it closed, and then no spin or underspin will be dumped into the net. It seems that the ball just hits totally flat, like I have more arc on my backhand loop than forehand, total opposite from what I’m used to. Short game is alright, but forehand is way off. It got to a point I’m frustrated that the ball just goes out or dumps into the net. I’ve been watching the fang Bo forehand tutorials, about the waist, the contact point and follow through, all things my coach thought me for penhold-and I can’t get it.
My partner commented that I was very very stiff, especially serves. I tried to loosen out, but then I can’t even hit the ball on the table?

It’s weird that if when I use the tin arc for my forehand it is still more forgiving, likely for it being more springy. But it feel terrible.

I think I really need to work technique from the ground up. Is there something I’m missing. I’m trying to play more relaxed

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Hmm not too sure about this, just that it feels odd.

I played with my usual partner for 2 hours today, and my game totally changed.

I feel much safer on the backhand, even looping. I barely had confidence to forehand. Following advice from someone not to care about racket angle adjustments and just swing, every ball goes out. I really have to keep it closed, and then no spin or underspin will be dumped into the net. It seems that the ball just hits totally flat, like I have more arc on my backhand loop than forehand, total opposite from what I’m used to. Short game is alright, but forehand is way off. It got to a point I’m frustrated that the ball just goes out or dumps into the net. I’ve been watching the fang Bo forehand tutorials, about the waist, the contact point and follow through, all things my coach thought me for penhold-and I can’t get it.
My partner commented that I was very very stiff, especially serves. I tried to loosen out, but then I can’t even hit the ball on the table?

It’s weird that if when I use the tin arc for my forehand it is still more forgiving, likely for it being more springy. But it feel terrible.

I think I really need to work technique from the ground up. Is there something I’m missing. I’m trying to play more relaxed

I think you might not be using your body enough. Hurricane is one hell of a rubber that hitting it wrong gives no spin whatsoever (especially later in the training session). At that point I have to really use the ground, my waist, and my shoulders for a good stroke. You don't have to work your technique from the ground up since imo youre VERY relaxed, but you don't have enough body yet.

The rubbers could also be older. Are there pips on the H3?

 

[olive-nguyen]

This rubber is rather old, likely before the tack reduction. It’s sticker than the H3Neo on my miyabi. It just feels rather dead and hollow, and it’s weird seeing my shots don’t have spin. I thought I mastered chinese rubbers😭

I miss the feel of hinoki already

 

[Tyce]

Very old means it's fair to say there's no boost at work whatsoever and it's perhaps not a Neo sponge either.
One option would be pulling it off, apply booster, and slapping it back on. Could be enough for a better feeling.

 

[olive-nguyen]

Well, I don’t have booster and I don’t intend to boost rubbers.

Also I just bought rubbers, Sanwei Target 3 National on both sides, just that forehand is 40 degree 2.15mm blue sponge and backhand 37 degree Japanese style spring sponge

 

[PenHoldSandro]

Well, I don’t have booster and I don’t intend to boost rubbers.

Also I just bought rubbers, Sanwei Target 3 National on both sides, just that forehand is 40 degree 2.15mm blue sponge and backhand 37 degree Japanese style spring sponge

Huh. Sanwei. Good luck with that I have not many opinions for or against Sanwei, it's just good.

Very old means it's fair to say there's no boost at work whatsoever and it's perhaps not a Neo sponge either.
One option would be pulling it off, apply booster, and slapping it back on. Could be enough for a better feeling.

I'm not so experienced with boosting (I don't boost either), but I heard it does both of these things. An issue could be that it's old too, and it lacks apin because of the age. But your reason is completely valid too, don't get me wrong

 

[olive-nguyen]

The top sheet on both rubbers started to peel off-just after short play today. Previous owner had two bats and this was his rarely used spare. Not sure how often he used it. But looks like it came to age and I’ll change it. I was considering Hurricane 3 Neo again like my current, but I felt that the top sheet just wasn’t as durable as I hoped. It was wonderful for awhile but it’s starting to die. As I said, somehow the top sheet of the h3 on this bat is sticker than the one on my current miyabi, even though I clean it every time after use and put a cover on it.

I encountered Sanwei from an Emratich video, and had some hopes. I thought the extra help from the spring sponge would aid transition, and I still want Chinese rubber for the throw angle, as I found that European or esn rubbers was one of my worser experiences on the forehand (fastarc g-1) and even with Hurricane I struggled to put the ball on the table.

I think someone also mentioned durability of the top sheet, hence I eventually opted for Target 3 National.

P.S. tried an uncles bat, a DHS Fang Bo B2 with fresh(er) Skyline 3 on the forehand and some kind of Yinhe rubber on the backhand, I found it not bad to use. It’s shakehand. I felt the ball was able to arc down better than with my current, but likely due to the dead rubber. Also, I got more spin somehow. But backhand was rather bad, no spin, just forgiving for blocks and touch, not spin sensitive.

 

[PenHoldSandro]

The top sheet on both rubbers started to peel off-just after short play today. Previous owner had two bats and this was his rarely used spare. Not sure how often he used it. But looks like it came to age and I’ll change it. I was considering Hurricane 3 Neo again like my current, but I felt that the top sheet just wasn’t as durable as I hoped. It was wonderful for awhile but it’s starting to die. As I said, somehow the top sheet of the h3 on this bat is sticker than the one on my current miyabi, even though I clean it every time after use and put a cover on it.

I encountered Sanwei from an Emratich video, and had some hopes. I thought the extra help from the spring sponge would aid transition, and I still want Chinese rubber for the throw angle, as I found that European or esn rubbers was one of my worser experiences on the forehand (fastarc g-1) and even with Hurricane I struggled to put the ball on the table.

I think someone also mentioned durability of the top sheet, hence I eventually opted for Target 3 National.

P.S. tried an uncles bat, a DHS Fang Bo B2 with fresh(er) Skyline 3 on the forehand and some kind of Yinhe rubber on the backhand, I found it not bad to use. It’s shakehand. I felt the ball was able to arc down better than with my current, but likely due to the dead rubber. Also, I got more spin somehow. But backhand was rather bad, no spin, just forgiving for blocks and touch, not spin sensitive.
View attachment 38204View attachment 38205

Well at least we know why you can't spin it.
Skyline 3 is a great rubber, with a REALLY low throw angle. For you H3 would be better. Balls arc down better because of the spin, so you could spin well with TG3.

 

[olive-nguyen]

Hello, an update

I played with one of my friends yesterday, and he thought me about technique of shakehand. Have to say it was priceless, instrumental in getting me much better. My forehand now is quite consistent, and I don’t face the go over table issue. With more play I was able to know how to adjust the racket angle, and the main thing is I need more brush of the ball and this which hitting it through. I felt the ball in the bat for longer, improving my confidence and allowing me to hit through the ball more effectively. Only thing is that at mid distance I sometimes miss the ball entirely as my contact has a rather closed bat angle though with a longer stroke with my bat starting at knee level instead of the European style stroke. But timing can be practiced so it isn’t really an issue.

I haven’t got my rubbers yet, but they’re coming soon. Will glue and try out Sanwei target 3 National, hopefully giving a review.

Also, I’ll debunk the differences in packaging. The silver packaging appears to be orange sponge Target, and it’s Target 3 Pro, not target 3 National. The packaging for non blue sponge Target 3 National is totally different, being white and red, sort of like DHS H3 National. Only Target 3 National blue sponge came in the black packaging, not silver.

Edit:

My backhand is now way more lethal than forehand, and it’s really good at pulling strong backhand loops and flicks. It’s really fast and the crack is satisfying. Strangely it performs better with the harder H3, so I’m not sure how softer Target 3 National would hold up. But I’m still new I’m sure it’s alright