Is Liu Guoliang “fairly” one of the greatest players of all time?

[UpSideDownCarl]

I think an underlying look at the flaws of the idea of GOAT are worthwhile. Something I have noticed in most conversations about GOAT across sports, players from earlier eras are often overlooked and more recent players are seen to be more GOAT than players of previous eras.

One thing that is easy to see is when a specific player dominates a specific era. Something that cannot be compared is a player from one era with a player from another. Muhammad Ali will never get to box vs Rocky Marciano or Mike Tyson. Nor could any of them meet while they are each in their respective primes. Michael Jordan, Oscar Robertson, Lebron James, the game has changed. The rules are different.

Perhaps the conversations are fun. Perhaps they stir up controversy and interest. But what are raised is questions that are unanswerable.

However, whether LGL was a great player, that is more answerable. Clearly, there was a period where, using equipment available to everyone at the time, he was one of the top players and won all the biggest tournaments.

I will always contend that there is no such thing as GOAT but we can see when someone stands head and shoulders above the rest. And sometimes we can see when someone is a little above the rest with stiff competition; and sometimes there is no clear dominant player. Is it that Sampras was just so much better than everyone else? Or was there just not good competition for him? With so much competition between Federer, Nadal and Djokovic, as they surpassed each other many times over the years and then the tides were reversed, does one really stand above the others?

And it does seem that each generation will choose new GOATS. But can these conversations actually take into account how each sport changes and how rules also change.

When you watch footage from the NFL in the 1970s or 80s you wonder why there is so much defensive dominance and why offenses had such a hard time moving the ball. Would the current Super Bowl Champion Chiefs be able to move the ball against the 1985 Bears if the rules from back in 1985 were used? Would the 1985 Bears be able to play defense like they did if they played with today's rules? What about the Steel Curtain of the 1970s?

Rules change, the game changes, and then it is not so possible to compare players across different eras. But we can admire the achievements of players from any era.

 

[UpSideDownCarl]

If we aren't going to do eras, and we don't agree that Viktor Barna is clearly the GOAT, then something doesn't add up.

[edit:] {For anyone who does not understand what NL is saying}: I think, it would be worth people trying to unpack this statement.

 

[Sunzi]

LGL was heavily negatively influenced by ITTF rule changes.
That possibly took away more wins for him and also shorten his career.
He never hold a 30 year grudge, like someone who is now banned on TTD.

To me, Liu was a good player. But he was in the same era with a top Swede, which took on 4 or 5 generations of Chinese champions after LGL. I will rate that Swede higher than LGL.

LGL, however, has been a super coach since his retirement and really bought out some of the best players of all time under his watch. So good that, it is so difficult for any other coach to even get to "par"

Jan-Ove Waldner is the top Swede you are referring to. Him, Truls Moregardh (2024 Olympic silver medalist), and Par Gerell (world's best server) are the dominant (greatest) Swedes. No other Swede I know of stands a chance against Liu Guoliang (or even Xiang Peng for this matter).