Newbie question about changing bat setup

[Sanniejop]

Hi all,
Newbie here. I am 52 years old. When I was 12 years old I was memeber of a newly started club for less then a year. Then the club already stopped. We had a few trainings learning the basics. After that I only played on vacations during camping season. In march '24 I was triggered to start again with this (hobby) sport. So i am really a beginner.
At that time, after doing a little research I bought a new custom bat. Not really knowing what I was really choosing.
I also directly started playing regional recreative competitions and tournaments. This goes quite well. I did not lose any match in the competition and I won two tounaments. It seems I started at a too low level/class. But in two classes higher I also win 50% of my matches.

So it goes quite well but I am bumping into some trouble. Which I relate to my chosen bat frame and rubbers. I have trouble with recieving high side spin serves (the ball really jumps of my bat long over the table, although i get it better under control by pulling back during hitting, not sure this is the correct solution) And the game itselfs is sometimes simply to fast for me to follow. I am to slow in the ready position after serving. I know I have to develop my foot work but still.

I like to know your opinion if i should chance my bat. As you can see in my profile I am currently using a Donic Waldner senso carbon blade with Bluestorm Z2 on both sides.
I was thinking to go to slower or lower tension rubber, such as Bluefire M3/AcudaS2/Barracuda, and maybe also changing the blade to a Waldner World Champion 89 blade. Not sure about the blade chance. Was thinking that a stiffer blade is giving more feeling. From the catalog numbers the difference in control and speed are not that big but they are speed elastic vs nearly stiff. My feeling is that the elasticity of the blade is contributing to the speed of the returns because it is acting like a spring. A stiffer blade could maybe prevent this???

I like to hear your opinions.
Thanks for reading

 

[Lazer]

If you are sure you want to stay with Donic and carbon, the Donic Appelgren WC 89 is a great slow carbon blade. The thing with the whole WC 89 series is that it has a spruce top which tips easily åt rubber change unless you are careful.

With that Accuda S2 is a good choice.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Tyce]

Waldner Senso Carbon is absolutely fine. I get what you mean with the spring effect but that doesn't really work unless you whip the blade really fast yourself.
How do you play? Do you use a very short, quick motion? Because if that's the case, you won't fix anything by changing your bat. Instead, you want to change your motion to become more fluent.
If you think the rubbers are too much, slap on Vega Europe both sides and you have a bat that has a lot of control and space to grow.

Where do you play by the way? There are a few Dutch people here

 

[Sanniejop]

How do you play? Do you use a very short, quick motion?

Recently some reading learned me that for making the Bluestorm (tensor) work at its best, it is needed to accelerate the bat during the hit. This means that now i am using a quite short backswing so i can accellerate just before hitting, fast whip. I have to say that this works quite well. So yes, i use a quite short and quick motion now. So could i possibly benifit from a stiffer blade?

You say that, when hitting in this way, that changing my bat will not fix any thing.
Do you mean this playing style is needed for this set up? Especially the rubbers? And this speed comes with it?
And if i want to go slower i need to change my hitting technic along with different rubbers?
I am not sure yet if i would like that. Maybe i could just go to softer/thinner sponges to reduce speed?
But i have no idea how much this impacts speed. Current setup is my first and i have no comparison.

O, and i play in Limburg region

 

[Tyce]

My guess (and it's just a guess because text is really hard to judge) is that your swing is very tense (gespannen).

Having a short, compact stroke is a very good place to end up, but a very hard way to learn strokes and control. Ideally, you want learn strokes by playing them longer, and relaxed.

Rather than tapping the ball (tikken) it's helpful to learn how to drag the ball with the rubber. This will allow you to have a very wide range of control over the spin, speed and placement of the ball.
Tapping the ball is a shot that's very difficult to control. A tiny bit of extra speed will shoot the ball over the table as the only way it's going is straight, and you're compressing the rubber head-on.
Dragging allows finer control over the stretch you put on the rubber, which makes speed easier to control.

 

[Sanniejop]

Tapping the ball is a shot that's very difficult to control. A tiny bit of extra speed will shoot the ball over the table as the only way it's going is straight, and you're compressing the rubber head-on.

With tapping you mean a more or less short flat (bat angle) hit? I never use that.
My problem is with very heavy side spin serves of my opponent, that try to compensate with bat angle for the spin, so the ball goes in the correct direction over the table. But even when i don't make a hitting forward motion the balls flies so hard foward, by the cataput rubber, they fly over. I now handle this by moving the bat backwards when hitting, so they land on the table. But this is akward. I am experimenting now more with hitting with/along the spin.
But i was thinking i maybe need different rubber with less catapult or speed tk help me out. The brushing for looping etc. goes very well.
Thanks for helping me...

 

[Sanniejop]

The thing with the whole WC 89 series is that it has a spruce top which tips easily åt rubber change unless you are careful.

Thanks Lazer, thats good info. First i had my eye on the Waldner gold edition. Is that one more robust?
Also good to know that the S2 would be a good choice.

 

[sebi]

Your setup is quit fast, if the serves are only side spin you can brush over it and just try to place it in the right corner. E.g right hand opponent does tomahawk serve to your backhand spin diagonally. But this is very hard if you want a slower rubber I personally like Bluefire M3, it should be a bit less spin sensitive and a bit easier to play.

Recently some reading learned me that for making the Bluestorm (tensor) work at its best, it is needed to accelerate the bat during the hit. This means that now i am using a quite short backswing so i can accellerate just before hitting, fast whip. I have to say that this works quite well. So yes, i use a quite short and quick motion now. So could i possibly benifit from a stiffer blade?

You say that, when hitting in this way, that changing my bat will not fix any thing.
Do you mean this playing style is needed for this set up? Especially the rubbers? And this speed comes with it?
And if i want to go slower i need to change my hitting technic along with different rubbers?
I am not sure yet if i would like that. Maybe i could just go to softer/thinner sponges to reduce speed?
But i have no idea how much this impacts speed. Current setup is my first and i have no comparison.

O, and i play in Limburg region

In my opinion it does not matter if you accelerate when hitting the ball, or if you accelerate before you hit. A steady controlled swing should work better even with high tensor rubbers.

Tyce is right it´s probably a technique issue not a set up issue, but in general there are easier to play set ups and you can improve on these a lot faster.

With tapping you mean a more or less short flat (bat angle) hit? I never use that.
My problem is with very heavy side spin serves of my opponent, that try to compensate with bat angle for the spin, so the ball goes in the correct direction over the table. But even when i don't make a hitting forward motion the balls flies so hard foward, by the cataput rubber, they fly over. I now handle this by moving the bat backwards when hitting, so they land on the table. But this is akward. I am experimenting now more with hitting with/along the spin.
But i was thinking i maybe need different rubber with less catapult or speed tk help me out. The brushing for looping etc. goes very well.
Thanks for helping me...

Pech pong has an amazing video on youtube about receiving serves i can highly recommend any of his videos.

 

[Sanniejop]

Tyce is right it´s probably a technique issue

Ok, i understand. I know the Pech pong channel. I am praticing with against and with the spin. But it is hard for me in practice. I will try to improve the next couple of months. If i can not control it i switch only the rubbers first. I think to M3.

Does the thickness have a big impact or is this fine tuning?

 

[sebi]

Ok, i understand. I know the Pech pong channel. I am praticing with against and with the spin. But it is hard for me in practice. I will try to improve the next couple of months. If i can not control it i switch only the rubbers first. I think to M3.

Does the thickness have a big impact or is this fine tuning?

Thickness has a big impact, the more sponge the bouncier and faster it will be. 1,8 is more controlled but a bit slower, 2.3 will be faster but less controlled and harder to block with

 

[Lazer]

Thanks Lazer, thats good info. First i had my eye on the Waldner gold edition. Is that one more robust?
Also good to know that the S2 would be a good choice.

The whole series has spruce tops so no.
But if you know It and are careful you should bre ok…

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Sanniejop]

The whole series has spruce tops so no.

That one is not from a series.
Catalog says it has limba outer layers.

 

[Lazer]

No that one is much later.
But there is a Waldner a Persson WC89 in the series.

The WC89 series is made by Soulspin in Gernany.
That one is made in Korea.

Cheers
L-zr

 

[Sanniejop]

So after almost a year, starting as a beginner, I made the switch to a much less spin sensitive and less fast setup.
From,
Waldner Senso Carbon with Blue storm Z2 on both sides, to
Outerforce CAF with Rozena on both sides.

During my first training session my experience was, Oooo no this is way to slow, and my timing on incoming balls was completely off, i guess because of the lower speed of play in general. Completely missing balls etc.....

But during my second session it was already feeling much better. I was even able to win three games from club member i normally always lose from. I get much more balls back on the table.
I understand that it takes normally 20+ hours of play to adapt to a new setup. So if progression continues with this rate i wonder where i will end up It gives me now already much more confidence.

First setup was really not suitable for a beginner.
I guess this story is really exemplary for all you experienced people.

Doing some reading I learned more about the timing of the movement.
The shocking part for me was that the beginner setup is actually more demanding on this timing aspect. With the old setup the timing was not critical because even when hitting with very low speed the balls were always getting to the end of the table if my bat angle was good.
When the timing is correct with my new setup, it is actually not that slow as I initially though. When the timing is correct the balls are flying back on the table. And I can put much more energy into my play, I dont have to be so careful I hit the ball with the exact correct bat angle.
So until now very happy with my new bat. I learned a lot from my first wrong purchasing mistake

Just wanted to let you all know,
Have a nice day,
Cheers